Green Movement And Spiritual Idolatry?

[olger]

I would too, DR. R.

Rejoice always, Jesus is building a place for us.

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

Although pagan spirituality is hostile to Biblical Christianity

Really? Do tell!

[Overaged]

I have an obligation to provide more information. Thanks for your patience. The topic is a huge monster and growing rapidly.

Modern environmentalism is a reconstruction of a pagan world order, a rejection of Christian spirituality. Even so many churches are unwittingly practicing the religion of enviromentalism. Mystical and emotional religion replaces revealed religion.

So far, you have not really given me something solid to use as a reference point on demonstrating that this is true.

In one forum that I moderate here at CA; I am trying to advocate a model that unfolds a way of making the Bible personal; and I am going to try to model the same sort of approach in other areas of CA where I post. certainly; this topic would be a really good place to practice this model.

So on this basis of making the Bible personal; please allow me to tell you a little bit about myself, and my involvement in the "Green Movement."

Currently, I am involved in trying to recycle, as far as municipal resources will provide for, the following TYPES of items:

appliances, electronics, batteries, car batteries, bicycles, cars, paints, chemicals, metals, paper related products, plastic bottles,glass, CDs & DVDs, printer ink cartridges, drugs, styrofoam, hazardous chemicals, motor oils, tires, etc etc

I also, as far as possible do the following TYPES of activities to try to lessen the environmental foot print that I or my business leaves behind:

Change light bulbs: Replace incandescent lights bulbs with compact fluorescent (CFL) bulbs. Don't wait for old bulbs to burn out. Make this change today. Dispose of old CFL bulbs properly by recycling them (or saving them until recycling programs exist.)

Drive less, drive smart: Drive a fuel-efficient car, keep tires inflated, carpool and reduce your speed. Don't idle while waiting. Walk, bike or use public transportation instead. Support funding for mass transit. Be mindful of how far the things you buy have been transported.

Reduce your home's heating/cooling needs: Use a programmable thermostat, turn the temperature down two degrees in the winter, up two in the summer. Use proper insulation. Use fuel-efficient furnaces and air conditioners. Keep filters clean or replace them.

Reduce your water use: Use less water in the bathroom, kitchen, laundry room and yard. Use plants that are drought tolerant. Don't water your yard.

Buy energy efficient electronics and appliances: Replace old ones now with Energy Star models. See if you can get by without that second refrigerator or freezer. Review your electric and gas bills and try to reduce them.

Turn off electric devices: Unplug appliances when not in use, including chargers. Plug music and audio visual electronics in to power strips that can be easily switched off.

Buy locally and/or organically grown food: Be aware of how far your food travels to your table and how it is grown. Use a tote bag. Eat low on the food chain.

Plant a tree: Maintain a green lawn and garden with native plants. Reduce your use of chemicals and gas-powered machines. Be sure to discuss this with your yard service.

Reduce, reuse, and recycle: Cut back on consumption. Encourage recycling in your home, at your office and at businesses and restaurants you patronize. Buy recycled products. Compost yard waste. Being an environmentally-mindful consumer.

Being a part of the solution: Taking action today. Inspiring others. Raising children who care about the earth. Etc Etc Etc

Can you explain Olger, exactly HOW and WHY anything like the above would be "spiritual idolatry?"

Especially given the Biblical mandate to look after our planet:

1. The love of God and Jesus require Christians to love Creation. The world is the property of God and as his stewards we are called to a high standard to tend and care for it (Gen. 1; Ps. 24; Col. 1:16).

2. Christians should engage in climate change out of a love of God and neighbor. A changing climate will bring suffering to many who are already struggling (Mt. 22:34-40; Mt. 7:12; Mt. 25:31-46).

3. God commanded humanity to be stewards of His Creation (Gen. 1:26-28).[1]

[doug yowell]

And why is all that conservation necessary rather than optional? What Biblical mandate is there for not watering one's lawn??

[Overaged]

Well, does the Bible make it an "option" to be good stewards of everything we have/use?

Your question is like saying we can be good 80% of the time, but it's OK to sneak in a little sin the other 20% of the time. I guess, technically speaking, that would be optional; you could choose to do that.

And PS: what is "wrong" with any of these things i try to do? Am I sinning when I do them?

[doug yowell]

Your question is like saying we can be good 80% of the time, but it's OK to sneak in a little sin the other 20% of the time. I guess, technically speaking, that would be optional; you could choose to do that.

Which part of your above listed green assists are considered by God to be sinful if deviated from? And why would it be sinful? (Sounds like a religious thing to me)How bout starting with my watering my lawn?

[doug yowell]

Taking the absolutely most extreme view on the outer edges of the environmentalist movement to reject it completely is like rejecting Christianity because a bunch of hooded racists burn crosses and claim to be Christians.

What you describe is way beyond the reality of the overwhelming majority of those concerned about the environment.

It is more than a little silly.

What is silly is to ignore the enormous negative assult on common sense and societal good that this group of "extremists" has had. "Give me spots on my apples but leave me the birds and the bees. Pleeeese!" Perhaps the latest veto of an oil pipeline that would have provided billions of dollars in human benefits might be just a tip of the iceberg. And for what reason? Environmentally conscious is one thing, environmentalism is another. It turns out that banning DDT led to the deaths of more human beings than it saved. And the elk(or whatever they are) actually flourish more around the Alaskan pipeline than they did before it was constructed.Christians don't live on "Mother Earth".

[John317]

...If you follow an earth based religion you are spiritually obligated to care for it. Its your mother and father. Good reason to go green.

I agree that we should take care of the earth but I don't agree with all the agenda or with the tactics of the Green Movement.

The Bible doesn't teach that the earth is our mother and father. That seems like a pagan concept.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

...If you follow an earth based religion you are spiritually obligated to care for it. Its your mother and father. Good reason to go green.

I agree that we should take care of the earth but I don't agree with all the agenda or with the tactics of the Green Movement.

The Bible doesn't teach that the earth is our mother and father. That seems like a pagan concept.

Indeed it is, that was kind of my point, what I posted where concepts from many different belief systems. Point is its something that all agree on. We need to take care of our planet.

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: John317

I agree that we should take care of the earth but I don't agree with all the agenda or with the tactics of the Green Movement.

The Bible doesn't teach that the earth is our mother and father. That seems like a pagan concept.

Indeed it is, that was kind of my point, what I posted where concepts from many different belief systems. Point is its something that all agree on. We need to take care of our planet.

But why? I mean, did not Jesus say that the whole world would be burned up anyway? What will people be saying when one third of the sea turns to blood and a third of the fresh water is puluted (by God)and a third of all green shrubs and grass/trees get wasted? What then? Will you be pushing for the green movement then?

Don't you think that many of our freedoms have been taken away from us by people wanting to push their own ideas down our throats?

Why fight it then, let the world get burned up and go to waste. Remember, the whole earth will be made new anyway!

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

Your question is like saying we can be good 80% of the time, but it's OK to sneak in a little sin the other 20% of the time. I guess, technically speaking, that would be optional; you could choose to do that.

Which part of your above listed green assists are considered by God to be sinful if deviated from? And why would it be sinful? (Sounds like a religious thing to me)How bout starting with my watering my lawn?

Doug, you make a mountain out of a mole hill. First; I did not say it would be sinful to deviate from any of those "green activities" that I do. I never even hinted at it. I was careful to explain that in listing those things (as examples) I am only showing how I have chosen to make the Bible personal. The point being, that if YOU are doing NOTHING, then you are a part of the problem, not the solution.

And a word of advice so that you don't legalistically torture yourself any longer over your concocted lawn-watering HUB BUB, just rip out all the grass, and put some stones or bark in there. But then, mayhaps thou wilt start worrying about how/when to water those stones?

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

John317 wrote: "I agree that we should take care of the earth but I don't agree with all the agenda or with the tactics of the Green Movement.

The Bible doesn't teach that the earth is our mother and father. That seems like a pagan concept.

Quote:

Indeed it is, that was kind of my point, what I posted where concepts from many different belief systems. Point is its something that all agree on. We need to take care of our planet.

But why? I mean, did not Jesus say that the whole world would be burned up anyway? What will people be saying when one third of the sea turns to blood and a third of the fresh water is puluted (by God)and a third of all green shrubs and grass/trees get wasted? What then? Will you be pushing for the green movement then?

Don't you think that many of our freedoms have been taken away from us by people wanting to push their own ideas down our throats?

Why fight it then, let the world get burned up and go to waste. Remember, the whole earth will be made new anyway!

Because it is our duty.I could argue that I don't believe any of that will happen anyway but I am not going to.

By the instructions of the bible your God instructed mankind to care for the planet he created. I am unaware of that having ever been retracted.

I find it curious. In talking to Christians and reading this board, I often come across this kind of attitude. Refering to this planet as a tired old mudball, refering to our flesh as sinful, weak and unworthy. This from people that claim to love, honour, respect and glorify the very God that they say created those very same things. Why your very own holy book refers to that unworthy and sinfully weak flesh as the temple of God.

Don't you think if he indeed did create all that we see that this is insulting to him? So many so covet this Gods kingdom that they discard and disdain the wonderous gifts he has given before the time is right for any to join him there.

I find it staggering that any could believe that this God, almighty, all knowing, loving and fair, would look upon those that reject his order to care for this earth, that reject the gifts that he as given them, and welcome them into his halls and home. I find it staggering that it is believed that he would look upon those that follow a so called "pagan theology" (which is a whole other thread) that demands that they care for creation, seek to preserve the balance of nature, and rejoice in the life they have been gifted, that he would look upon them and reject them.

Now if none of that sinks in. For the last 2000 or so years people have been claiming that Jesus is coming soon. That the "end is nigh". It has not happened yet. It might be another 2000 years. With that possibility in mind, think about the planet we leave for future generations. Lets not repeat the mistakes of the generations before us. Lets stop the damage to what degree we can and let the earth heal.

[Overaged]

.

[olger]

Quote:

Although pagan spirituality is hostile to Biblical Christianity

Really? Do tell!

I guess that was kind of Captain Obvious ;^]

[olger]

Dear OA/:

Here is an article that I wrote recently - perhaps it will be useful in exploring the "religion" of environmentalism. Warning, it contains humor and Twain-ish satire.

Green Eggs & Spam

When I was in 3rd grade our class received a little sticker of the earth from my teacher. Printed in yellow words under the earth were the words “ecology.” I put that sticker on the cover of my red notebook, next to the peace sign that I had drawn there. It was 1968. The hippie revolution was in full stride.

Forty years later, the notebook is gone, the earth is still around, and we could all use a little peace. But revolution? The hippies are all gray-haired now and the only thing organic about them is their Buckeye cards and the mold growing on their beaded buckskin jackets.

Most of them are not growing natural gardens in Woodstock, NY and sitting around in circles discussing Socialism and saying “That’s heavy…man” (although “That’s heavy” does describe America in 2011— that is another story for another time). No, most of the old hippies went on to become accountants, store owners, Amway salesmen, professors and teachers, car dealers, and worse yet, politicians. But their desire for revolution lives on, and there are several new ones to choose from. Social Justice, and Green Religion is the soup du jour of our times.

Wait a minute. Religion? Most activists today are way beyond religion, marinating in their post-Christian, Darwin-enlightened modern sensibilities. To modern man God is a nuisance, if not outright bad. We won’t be needing any of that religion stuff, thank you very much.

Thus it is with tremendous irony that the Green Revolution has become a religious movement to end all of them. Let’s examine some of the doctrines of this hazardous new religion, and you can decide for yourself.

First, there is Salvation. We must save the world, and in the process we save ourselves. We don’t have to build a tower (see Babel), all we have to do is build a case for environmental supremacy and maybe plant a garden. Don’t need a Savior on a cross? You can be your own savior, and what can be more revolutionary than that?

Sin. Mowing your lawn is a sin. “But the grass grows back...!!” you exclaim. No, I’m talking about the mower! It has an engine. That engine has something worse than a gun – an exhaust system. Its bullets are carbon and each cycle of combustion fires into the atmosphere a deadly pestilence. But you live in an apartment and don’t even have a lawnmower, you say! Not so fast. All have sinned. Do you own a car? I thought so. “Well I don’t have one anymore says Grandma ‘Peterson’ from Denmark, and I ride the bus everywhere I go.” That’s better, but there’s still one unrepentant sin clinging to your life like a green sea vine wrapped around your left ankle. You are breathing. Breathing releases C02 into the fragile atmosphere and C02 is a sin! Like all sin, it must be repented of to avoid destruction and that brings us to the next doctrine.

Forgiveness. You can be forgiven for causing carbon to the earth if you use spiral light bulbs, ride your bicycle, drive a Prius, plant a tree, turn off your AC and use one square of toilet paper per sitting. But if you do all that and like the rich young ruler, green guilt drives you to your master, there is one overmastering trip to mecca to cleanse your soul. The pinnacle of indulgences and the envy of Johann Tetzel himself, is the mighty Carbon Credit. With it, you can purchase “peace that is of this world” and cover a multitude of carbon.

Saints. Al Gore, John Muir, Rachel Carson, Paul Ehrlich, James Lovelock, Arnie Næss, Robert Bullard, Fritjof Capra and other faces are carved into the Green Revolution wall, representing a chosen line of prophets sent to warn us. We might not be worthy, but we are guilty of environmental sin and we must turn from our ways or perish. Speaking of prophets.

Prophecy. “The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind” (Nigel Calder, 1969). “By 1999 the U.S. population will have declined to 22.6 million” (Paul Ehrich, 1968).

April 2008, Ted Turner (on not taking drastic action to correct global warming) “Not doing it will be catastrophic. We’ll be eight degrees hotter in ten, not ten but 30 or 40 years and basically none of the crops will grow! Most of the people will have died and the rest of us will be cannibals.” [strictly speaking, this is not a failed prediction. It won't be until at least 2041 that our church-going and pie-baking neighbors come after us for their noonday meal. But the prophecy is so bizarre that I include it here]. However, the grand prize for Green prophecy in the 21st century has already been claimed by Al Gore. His insistence that the earth will fry, that the seas will rise and that life as we know it must undergo a "wrenching transformation" will be studied by our grandchildren with the same appreciation that Ehrlich's ridiculous prophecies deserve. They will ask, “What on earth were these people thinking..?” (pardon the pun).

Outreach. Activism is the new evangelism as “church leaders” seek to hitch environmentalism to Christianity. At his Nobel Prize acceptance speech Al Gore said, “We have everything we need to get started, except for political will. But political will is a renewable resource. So let us renew it, say together: We have a purpose. We are many. For this purpose we will rise and we will act.” Quite a sermon, isn’t it? 2002 Campaigns like “What would Jesus drive” are designed to bring conviction to the masses and make them feel guilty about driving cars. And from the top seminary in the world pours a steady stream of documentaries, outreach movies, and indoctrinating innuendo. No we’re not talking about Moody, Andrews, or Wycliffe Hall. We’re talking about Hollywood. Let the sins of the tired, poor and huddled masses be greenwashed away. “There is wonder-working power in the planet..”

Temperance. “Do not drink.” Gasoline that is. In fact, wean yourself off of petroleum of all kinds before it’s eternally too late. Petroleum will break up your family, give you a hangover, and lead to all kinds of diseases. So control yourself Sir, and drop the addiction to incandescent light bulbs, Sport Utility Vehicles, and plastic Walmart bags. However… While cutting back on toilet paper to demonstrate your love for the Green Revolution may sound like earthly righteousness it could lead to a brown uprising. Please be careful.

Conclusion. If you are one the many folks who have become disillusioned with Christianity in this sweeping era of modern doubt, you have an option, a green one. It offers its own answers to life’s existential questions, origins, morality, meaning and salvation. But here is a much-needed warning.

A Christian is one who wants to find out and do what pleases the Lord Jesus (Ephesians 5:10). One can therefore distinguish a Christian movement by the willing hearted resolve to submit to the demands of Scripture. Since so much of the church has exalted feeling or action over the Word of God, it should come as no surprise that significant parts of the Christian church are caught up in the environmentalist movement. Rather than being fools for Christ, they are useful idiots of the Green Revolution, well-meaning but infatuated sycophants. Thus it is common to see advertisements of Jesus as the Marxist, organic-vegetable-eating hemp-wearing, pro-choice, Prius-driving, flag-hating hippie.

Now, false religion is a double edged sword: it is equally dangerous to claim Jesus as a Neo-con, flesh-eating, flag-waving, gun-toting, truck driving, gay-hating redneck. The religion of the Bible, the Christian religion is edgy and demanding. It is a religion of power yet not a power religion. In fact, it is much more than a religion. It is a generous display of the transformational power of God through the preaching of the gospel of Jesus the Christ. It is love amidst hatred, it is life from death, it is peace apart from this world. Thus a major problem with the Green Revolution is not so much that it is a revolutionary movement, but that environmentalism is insufficiently revolutionary. It cannot purify the heart. Church leaders who seek to hitch environmentalism to Christianity are but dirty fleas riding God’s dog.

To quote George Mardsen, “The lines between Christian and non-Christian morality are becoming increasingly blurred, but not because unbelievers are embracing truth." The Green Revolution is only too happy to plow with God’s heifer, especially if she is willing. But whether motivated by power lust or the hungry soul’s cry for salvation, or both—whatever the case may be—the Green Revolution is the bastard child of spiritual polygamy.

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passes away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of God abides forever.”

"Come let us reason together."

Though your sins be red, and your deceptions green, you can be as white as snow. There is hope for you and me in Christ alone.

`g

[doug yowell]

Your question is like saying we can be good 80% of the time, but it's OK to sneak in a little sin the other 20% of the time. I guess, technically speaking, that would be optional; you could choose to do that.

(Doug replied:)Which part of your above listed green assists are considered by God to be sinful if deviated from? And why would it be sinful? (Sounds like a religious thing to me)How bout starting with my watering my lawn?

Doug, you make a mountain out of a mole hill. First; I did not say it would be sinful to deviate from any of those "green activities" that I do. I never even hinted at it. I was careful to explain that in listing those things (as examples) I am only showing how I have chosen to make the Bible personal.

Just trying to get a little clarity out of your statement,OA.As Og has pointed out, the green movement has labeled as evil (sinful) those who don't buy into their extensive definition of environmentalism. I've watched it grow since the original "Earth Day". Now some are attaching that same obligation to a Biblical mandate. Your language seems to do just that and I was wanting a little more info on your Bible connection before jumping to any conclusions as to where you were going with your point.

[doug yowell]

Good piece,g, you're starting to sound like Lileks (or vice-versa).

[M. T. Cross]

Although pagan spirituality is hostile to Biblical Christianity

[phkrause]

Well, does the Bible make it an "option" to be good stewards of everything we have/use?

Your question is like saying we can be good 80% of the time, but it's OK to sneak in a little sin the other 20% of the time. I guess, technically speaking, that would be optional; you could choose to do that.

And PS: what is "wrong" with any of these things i try to do? Am I sinning when I do them?

great points OA, I also smell a rat. I have my gut feeling as to why he is against, and a few others, the enviorment(sp), But I'll see if he ever says the real reason.

[phkrause]

I agree that we should take care of the earth but I don't agree with all the agenda or with the tactics of the Green Movement.

The Bible doesn't teach that the earth is our mother and father. That seems like a pagan concept.

I do agree with that John. But just as we do accept so called pagan holidays and do celebrate Easter, Christmas for the "right" reasons, we could easily do that for making sure that the environment is taken care of, in spite of the "green movement." We don't need to do what's right because of them but because God has asked us to keep this earth the way he gave it to us.

[Tom Wetmore]

It seems that the first quote in my signature is all the more true on this topic, especially after enduring a view of the two video clips Ger posted.

It is no wonder many in the evangelical Christian community are mightily confused on this topic when their own erstwhile religious leaders promote such utter nonsense.

What it all boils down to is that political views are confused for religious views and visa versa and political agendas are pursued with religious fervor and religion has become political. When that happens, even the most absurd ideas reign supreme and the people's confused state of mind thinks it all sounds good.

What I don't understand is how Adventists, given our eschatology and our aversion to following after those same churches on theological or religious practices, are so easily sucked into it and willingly tout it as useful information or even acceptable without the slightest question or hesitation .

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

Well, does the Bible make it an "option" to be good stewards of everything we have/use?

Your question is like saying we can be good 80% of the time, but it's OK to sneak in a little sin the other 20% of the time. I guess, technically speaking, that would be optional; you could choose to do that.

And PS: what is "wrong" with any of these things i try to do? Am I sinning when I do them?

great points OA, I also smell a rat. I have my gut feeling as to why he is against, and a few others, the enviorment(sp), But I'll see if he ever says the real reason.

I don't know where the PS came from but my answer to that would be an emphatic no! There's nothing wrong with doing any of the things you've mentioned.I was asking if any of those things would be sin if anyone didn't do them?

[doug yowell]

It seems that the first quote in my signature is all the more true on this topic, especially after enduring a view of the two video clips Ger posted.

It is no wonder many in the evangelical Christian community are mightily confused on this topic when their own erstwhile religious leaders promote such utter nonsense.

What it all boils down to is that political views are confused for religious views and visa versa and political agendas are pursued with religious fervor and religion has become political. When that happens, even the most absurd ideas reign supreme and the people's confused state of mind thinks it all sounds good.

What I don't understand is how Adventists, given our eschatology and our aversion to following after those same churches on theological or religious practices, are so easily sucked into it and willingly tout it as useful information or even acceptable without the slightest question or hesitation .

Now that you've told us that og's videos espouse the absurd and that they promote nonsense why not give us some evidence as to why they are heading in the wrong direction? Are they factually wrong? Are they quoting out of context? Are the legal obstacles protecting many governmental environmental policies merely imaginative? Is the contemporary hysteria concerning global warming and the inevitable catastrophic consequences to follow as espoused by the former vice-president of the U.S. an areligious political extremism? Why is it stupid to believe that the green movement is a religious movement of it's own?

[phkrause]

Actually Doug I apologize, because the comment wasn't meant for you. I was refering to someone else. It just happen that he was commenting to you, but I didn't mean it to you, so let me apologize again, thanks.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: John317

I agree that we should take care of the earth but I don't agree with all the agenda or with the tactics of the Green Movement.

The Bible doesn't teach that the earth is our mother and father. That seems like a pagan concept.

I do agree with that John. But just as we do accept so called pagan holidays and do celebrate Easter, Christmas for the "right" reasons, we could easily do that for making sure that the environment is taken care of, in spite of the "green movement." We don't need to do what's right because of them but because God has asked us to keep this earth the way he gave it to us.

I don't think anyone, much less John, would argue with that,pk.