Green Movement And Spiritual Idolatry?

[doug yowell]

Actually Doug I apologize, because the comment wasn't meant for you. I was refering to someone else. It just happen that he was commenting to you, but I didn't mean it to you, so let me apologize again, thanks.

There was no offense therefore no apology needed. Feel free to save it for a possible future use, I might need it then.

[phkrause]

OK

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

It seems that the first quote in my signature is all the more true on this topic, especially after enduring a view of the two video clips Ger posted.

It is no wonder many in the evangelical Christian community are mightily confused on this topic when their own erstwhile religious leaders promote such utter nonsense.

What it all boils down to is that political views are confused for religious views and visa versa and political agendas are pursued with religious fervor and religion has become political. When that happens, even the most absurd ideas reign supreme and the people's confused state of mind thinks it all sounds good.

What I don't understand is how Adventists, given our eschatology and our aversion to following after those same churches on theological or religious practices, are so easily sucked into it and willingly tout it as useful information or even acceptable without the slightest question or hesitation .

Now that you've told us that og's videos espouse the absurd and that they promote nonsense why not give us some evidence as to why they are heading in the wrong direction? Are they factually wrong? Are they quoting out of context? Are the legal obstacles protecting many governmental environmental policies merely imaginative? Is the contemporary hysteria concerning global warming and the inevitable catastrophic consequences to follow as espoused by the former vice-president of the U.S. an areligious political extremism? Why is it stupid to believe that the green movement is a religious movement of it's own?

Quite simply the entire approach is a perfect example of the use of thought terminating cliches especially tailored to a religious politically conservative audience. It essentially demonizes an opposing POV by a whole range of unsubstantiated and totally unfounded conjectural religious cliches intended to lock down any thought or honest reflection on the issues. What better way to get religious people on the anti-environmentalist bandwagon than to paint environmentalism as anti-Christian religious movement. Say no more, it's evil.

There really was very little in the way of real facts or evidence presented. They didn't need to because the demonizing cliches effectively terminated any further though processes of the target audience. No need to confuse anyone with actual facts since they have effectively made up the minds of the target audience for them. It is called brain washing.

[doug yowell]

I agree that we should take care of the earth but I don't agree with all the agenda or with the tactics of the Green Movement.

I asked OA a couple of questions that were intended to understand why Christians need to practice stewardship over God's earth. The green movement has a very different motive for pursuing their goals. First they come from the perspective that the earth has a limited supply of natural resources and that when man has used them up we are doomed! Note the list of environmental alarms that have proven to be unwarranted over the decades, just off the top of my head: The coming ice age (remember that one?).Overpopulation (that's one that scared our GC president into supporting abortion as a method of birth control). DDT as an environmental poison (now they've discovered that DDT actually inhibits malaria in many 3rd world countries). Second, most of the prominent greenies consider the maintenance of the earth a greater priority than the maintenance of the human race. Make the killing of a seal fetus a criminal offense and legalize abortion, go figure? Stop shooting the wolves and then find that they are killing great numbers of people's cattle.Trying to mandate energy alternatives by banning an oil pipeline and building wind farms only to discover that the windmills are killing huge numbers of unsuspecting birds. I don't know anybody who is opposed to responsible environmental management but the green movement has made it a religion. Worshiping the creation rather than the Creator. To deny this as a fact seems rather naive at best.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

Why is it stupid to believe that the green movement is a religious movement of it's own?

Quite simply the entire approach is a perfect example of the use of thought terminating cliches especially tailored to a religious politically conservative audience. It essentially demonizes an opposing POV by a whole range of unsubstantiated and totally unfounded conjectural religious cliches intended to lock down any thought or honest reflection on the issues. What better way to get religious people on the anti-environmentalist bandwagon than to paint environmentalism as anti-Christian religious movement. Say no more, it's evil.

There really was very little in the way of real facts or evidence presented. They didn't need to because the demonizing cliches effectively terminated any further though processes of the target audience. No need to confuse anyone with actual facts since they have effectively made up the minds of the target audience for them. It is called brain washing.

You've just repeated yourself without offering any evidence. Or in other words, you've just condemned what you yourself have done.I asked for factual reasons why those religious politically conservatives were wrong and you've responded with Say no more, they're just the evil talking to the stupid.

[Tom Wetmore]

I can't do your learning for you. View the videos yourself. It is like trying to nail jello to the wall to respond to their vapid nonsense. There is no substance to respond to!

If you do not get what I am saying, maybe you fell for the mind control too.

If you don't know what i am talking about here is a useful link to expand your thinking a bit - Thought Terminating Cliche

Religion and politics often both use this method of "persuasion". And when religion and politics are combined to use it, the results are amazing, and frightening, really.

[doug yowell]

I can't do your learning for you. View the videos yourself. It is like trying to nail jello to the wall to respond to their vapid nonsense. There is no substance to respond to!

I'm not asking you to do my learning, I'm just asking you to do some teaching.Give an example of their vapid nonsense that has no substance. You've had no problem responding to something here so how does that demonstrate that there's no substance? How bout showing that they're using jello? Just one example. Are you including og's personal,non-video contribution?

[doug yowell]

If you do not get what I am saying, maybe you fell for the mind control too.

If you don't know what i am talking about here is a useful link to expand your thinking a bit - Thought Terminating Cliche

Religion and politics often both use this method of "persuasion". And when religion and politics are combined to use it, the results are amazing, and frightening, really.

No disagreement here. The reason why one needs to ask related questions is to clarify the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the thought terminating cliche use. If the use is legit the facts of the argument will bear that out. One can just as easily use the cliche as a method of mind control,true?

[olger]

Good piece,g, you're starting to sound like Lileks (or vice-versa).

I can't remember who was born first..

Thanks

G

(just checked. Lileks is two years older than me, so I must sound like him!) I shall read some of his stuff post-haste.

[olger]

It is no wonder many in the evangelical Christian community are mightily confused on this topic when their own erstwhile religious leaders promote such utter nonsense.

What it all boils down to is that political views are confused for religious views and visa versa and political agendas are pursued with religious fervor and religion has become political. When that happens, even the most absurd ideas reign supreme and the people's confused state of mind thinks it all sounds good.

Quite simply the entire approach is a perfect example of the use of thought terminating cliches especially tailored to a religious politically conservative audience. It essentially demonizes an opposing POV by a whole range of unsubstantiated and totally unfounded conjectural religious cliches intended to lock down any thought or honest reflection on the issues. What better way to get religious people on the anti-environmentalist bandwagon than to paint environmentalism as anti-Christian religious movement. Say no more, it's evil.

There really was very little in the way of real facts or evidence presented. They didn't need to because the demonizing cliches effectively terminated any further though processes of the target audience. No need to confuse anyone with actual facts since they have effectively made up the minds of the target audience for them. It is called brain washing.

This is great.

1) The first video is Ian Rutherford Plimer, an internationally recognized geologist from Australia - who also happens to be an atheist with no religious affiliation. He is speaking to a global-warming crowd. So much for "erstwhile religious leaders" speaking to a "a religious politically conservative audience."

2) The second video is merely a trailer/promo clip for the Green Dragon series - a thoroughly substantiated and documented expose' on the malevolent pagan innerworkings of the environmentalist movement. You don't like promos, check the referent.

Rejoice always,

`G

[M. T. Cross]

The Green Dragon......

Ya know, that video reek, just reeks, of a bunch of money hungery, power mad, zealots that have found a way to exagerate the downfall of their counterparts. Yes there are enviromental extremists. Just as there are Christian extremists, Muslim extremists, political extremists etc. But they are, almost without fail the minority.

Quote:

malevolent pagan innerworkings of the environmentalist movement

You sir, obviously know zip about the pagan community. I have yet to meet one single pagan that puts enviromental concerns over human life. I am sure there are some out there, but they most certainly do NOT represent the community in all it variations as a whole.

[phkrause]

Great points EC

[CoAspen]

One must remember.......Them Jesuits are every where, ready to pounce on your soul and steal it...(even in the environment!)

[M. T. Cross]

One must remember.......Them Jesuits are every where, ready to pounce on your soul and steal it...(even in the environment!)

They are EVERYWHERE!

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

It is no wonder many in the evangelical Christian community are mightily confused on this topic when their own erstwhile religious leaders promote such utter nonsense.

What it all boils down to is that political views are confused for religious views and visa versa and political agendas are pursued with religious fervor and religion has become political. When that happens, even the most absurd ideas reign supreme and the people's confused state of mind thinks it all sounds good.

Quite simply the entire approach is a perfect example of the use of thought terminating cliches especially tailored to a religious politically conservative audience. It essentially demonizes an opposing POV by a whole range of unsubstantiated and totally unfounded conjectural religious cliches intended to lock down any thought or honest reflection on the issues. What better way to get religious people on the anti-environmentalist bandwagon than to paint environmentalism as anti-Christian religious movement. Say no more, it's evil.

There really was very little in the way of real facts or evidence presented. They didn't need to because the demonizing cliches effectively terminated any further though processes of the target audience. No need to confuse anyone with actual facts since they have effectively made up the minds of the target audience for them. It is called brain washing.

This is great.

1) The first video is Ian Rutherford Plimer, an internationally recognized geologist from Australia - who also happens to be an atheist with no religious affiliation. He is speaking to a global-warming crowd. So much for "erstwhile religious leaders" speaking to a "a religious politically conservative audience."

2) The second video is merely a trailer/promo clip for the Green Dragon series - a thoroughly substantiated and documented expose' on the malevolent pagan innerworkings of the environmentalist movement. You don't like promos, check the referent.

Rejoice always,

`G

I wouldn't regard Plimer as too credible an "authority". As someone deeply involved in mining industry I wouldn't expect him to have a great sensitivity to environmental issues. Here is a review of his book on the topic, "Heaven and Earth" - No Science in Plimer's Primer

I especially find this review to correspond to and confirm my own reaction ( I recall "windbag" coming to mind...) to his bit in the video:

"The arguments that Plimer advances in the 503 pages and 2311 footnotes in Heaven and Earth are nonsense. The book is largely a collection of contrarian ideas and conspiracy theories that are rife in the blogosphere. The writing is rambling and repetitive; the arguments flawed and illogical."

Or the conclusion:

"Plimer has done an enormous disservice to science, and the dedicated scientists who are trying to understand climate and the influence of humans, by publishing this book. It is not "merely" atmospheric scientists that would have to be wrong for Plimer to be right. It would require a rewriting of biology, geology, physics, oceanography, astronomy and statistics. Plimer's book deserves to languish on the shelves along with similar pseudo-science such as the writings of Immanuel Velikovsky and Erich von Daniken."

Of course if that doesn't convince you read this - http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/04/23/ian-plimer-heaven-and-earth/

or this - http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/global_warming/plimer/

As for the Green Dragon promo - not a very effective inducement to watch the series. That spells promo failure...

[olger]

Thanks !!

[olger]

Very disturbing.

[Woody]

Wow. This is profound. It speaks volumes Og. You hit the nail on the head again brother.

[M. T. Cross]

Very disturbing.

We can all sit around and post pictures of extremists. Proves nothing of the overall cause.

[olger]

Ecofeminism:

Ecofeminists agree that the domination of women and the domination of nature are fundamentally connected and that environmental efforts are therefore integral with work to overcome the oppression of women. Throughout our history nature is portrayed as feminine and women are often thought of as closer to nature than men. Women's physiological connection with birth and child care have partly led to this close association with nature.

Ecofeminism believes that Patriarchal society is built on four interlocking pillars; sexism, racism, class exploitation and environmental destruction. Ecofeminist analysis reveals that it's not only women who are portrayed as being 'closer to nature'; oppressed races and social classes have also been closely associated with nature. Ecofeminism has made a particularly useful analysis of power relations, and rejects any form of hierarchy. The emphasis is on shared power, finding our own 'power-from-within' rather than needing to impose the manipulation and control of 'power-over'.

Ecofeminism demands a radical critique of the categories of 'nature' and 'culture' together with an affirmation of the degraded partner in all the patriarchal dualities. 'Female' qualities such as co-operation, nurturing, being supportive, nonviolent and sensual are especially appropriate for creating an environmentally aware society.

Some ecofeminists believe that traditional 'male' qualities like competitiveness, individuality, assertiveness, leadership, and intellectuality, are valuable in appropriate contexts and should be replaced with with 'female' qualities in a balance person. This will promote healing with the earth and oneness with the divine feminine. Herein lies the fundamental connection between Wiccan proponents and environmentalism (See Berit Kjos excellent book "A Twist of Faith").

The ecofeminist approach that best fits the Nariva Swamp issue in Trinidad and Tobago comes from “Reweaving the World: The Emergence of Ecofeminism (1990) in which the editors, Irene Diamond and Gloria Orenstein lay out three strands in ecofeminism (quoted in Mack-Canty, 2004). One strand emphasizes that social justice has to be achieved in concert with the well-being of the Earth since human life is dependent on the Earth. Ultimately ecofeminism is spiritual, emphasizing that the Earth is sacred unto itself. These sentiments have pervaded much of our society and has led to "Mother earth" being regarding as some sort of deity.

In summary: Ecofeminism is the belief that Biblical patriarchism (gender roles) is the root cause of all our problems. Thus we must blend feminism and enviromentalism to “activate the primal consciousness of oneness between all living things.” This is also creeping into the church in certain circles.

Deep Ecology and ecofeminism are encapsulated in the Wiccan path. If you want to learn more about these concepts then I recommend www.thegreenfuse.org or Berit Kjos.

“However I am a witch - I do believe that thought influences reality (magick), I can alter my conciousness at will and I do celebrate the 8 festivals in the year, plus I like all the velvet dresses, cloaks and magical tools. I am also a woman - and I believe deeply that witchcraft is the ONLY religious persuasion that truly celebrates the feminine, that sees divinity as female first, then male. I subscribe to that point of view, if that makes me a Witch then so be it.”

Don't allow yourselves to be influenced by these powerful forces that are gaining rapid influence in the world. Paul rightly warned that the time was coming (and is now here) when humans would worship created things rather than the Creator (Jesus). Romans 1.:25-29.

Rejoice in Him alone,

G

[M. T. Cross]

You still fail to make your point.....

So there are pagans that are a part of the Green movement as part of their religion. Some of them worship Goddesses.

Why are you not out there promoting enviromental awareness as a part of the religion of your male God? I believe he commanded you to take care of his creation.

Honestly I can't think of a worse reason to NOT be part of something. Because other belief systems are part of it? They likely shop at the same grocery stores as you and give their patronage to the same restaraunts and clothing stores as well. Seems to me if some put half as much effort into being part of the solution as they do to finding the various problems, everyone would benifit greatly.

It reeks of an excuse for a witchhunt and an excuse to not participate in something of worth and value.

[Bravus]

Green movements don't get a mention in the Bible.

Mammon does...

[olger]

It reeks of an excuse for a witchhunt and an excuse to not participate in something of worth and value.

Who is not participating ? You are the one making assumptions here.

I am a leader in an industry that saves lots of energy.

rejoice always,

`G

[Dr. Shane]

It was commented to me on another topic that the going green movements we see developing everywhere are "spiritual idolatry."

First, let me declare my bias. I am a LEED Green Associate which is a professional building and design accreditation. I think there are many in the green movement that have made it into a religion - and a false one at that. However we can turn almost anything into adultery. We can turn our love for cars idolatry. We can make food an idol. We can even make our mate an idol. That is not to say it is bad to drive a car, eat a meal or get married. It is just acknowledging that these things can become idols. So it is with the green movement. Preserving and protecting the environment is good. The way we feel for the Creator will be shown by how we treat His creation.

[Naomi]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

It was commented to me on another topic that the going green movements we see developing everywhere are "spiritual idolatry."

First, let me declare my bias. I am a LEED Green Associate which is a professional building and design accreditation. I think there are many in the green movement that have made it into a religion - and a false one at that. However we can turn almost anything into adultery. We can turn our love for cars idolatry. We can make food an idol. We can even make our mate an idol. That is not to say it is bad to drive a car, eat a meal or get married. It is just acknowledging that these things can become idols. So it is with the green movement. Preserving and protecting the environment is good. The way we feel for the Creator will be shown by how we treat His creation.