skyblue888 Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Sky I need a favor, I wish you could help me, I don't have much resources to which I could study further about this thing: "faith of Jesus". Last night I, together with the Voice of Youth Team met together for worship and this certain topic was brought out: "faith of Jesus". I know you know that there is a difference between "faith IN Jesus" and "faith OF Jesus". It is shared to me before by a Pastor whom I forgot that it is written in SOP that the people in the last days ought to have the faith of Jesus to withstand the assailments of the enemy to them. Can you share to me in which book particularly of the Spirit of Prophecy is that? Let me share some Bible verses that talk about the faith of Jesus. Romans 3:22; Galatians 2:16; Galatians 3:22; Revelation 14:12 Sky just let me know if you can help me...thank you "Jesus is coming so soon. Be ready!" ______________ hi Lyn,,, hope you are doing just fine in the Lord. About the faith of Jesus versus faith in Jesus. We cannot have faith in Jesus unless we have the faith that only Jesus can impart. Right? Notice these passages: "... that all men through Him might believe." John 1:7. In the book Faith & Works, 107, Mrs. White says that "Our strongest faith is but feebleness." In other words our strongest faith is unbelief! Therefore we must have the faith that comes from Jesus Himself imparted to us by the Holy Spirit. "Who by Him believe in God." 1 Peter 1:21. And the Bible says that "God has dealt to every man the measure of faith." Romans 12:3. It must be exercised and as we exercise it, "it grows exceedingly." 2 Thess.1:3. "Faith is the gift of God but the power to exercise it is ours." Patriarchs & Prophets,431. "... the faith which is by Him has given him his perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Acts 3:16. Truly Jesus is "the Author and Finisher of our faith." Heb.12:2. The faith by which we are saved is, indeed, the faith of Jesus. This faith which comes from Jesus is "the faith that works by love to purify the soul." Gal.5:6. "It is the Holy Spirit in the heart that works by love and purifies the soul." E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.4,1179. This faith which comes from Jesus through the Holy Spirit leads us to trust wholly in the merits of His sacrifice for our acceptance with God. Then the love of God springs up in the heart: "God will accept everyone that comes to Him trusting wholly in the merits of a crucified Saviour Love springs up in the heart. There may be no ecstasy of felling, but there is an abiding, peaceful trust." 1 Selected Messages, 354. And "The love that Christ diffuses through the whole being is a vitalizing power. Every vital part, the heart, the brain, the nerves, it touches with healing. It frees the soul from the guilt and sorrow, the anxiety and care that crush the life forces. By it the highest energies of the being are roused to activity. With it come serenety and composure. It implants in the soul a joy that nothing earthly can destroy, joy in the Holy Spirit, health-giving, life-giving joy." Ministry of Healing, 115. Beautiful, isn't it? Hope this helped and God bless you richly through the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. And as to whether we may be concious of having the Holy Spirit or not, it is all a matter of exercising continual faith in the merits of Christ. We cannot depend on feelings alone, otherwise it would no longer be faith. A person filled with the Spirit will be the last one to boast about it or even be conscious of it. Do you have this book: The Sanctified Life by Mrs. White? On pages 12 and 13 of that book is found, I believe, the answer to your question. "A healthy man does not call attention of everyone he meets to his soundness of body. Health and vigor are the natural conditions of his life, and therefore he is scarcely conscious that he is in the enjoyment of so rich a boon. Thus it is with the truly righteous man. He is unconscious of his goodness and piety. Religious principle has become the spring of his life and conduct, and it is just as natural for him to bear the fruits of the Spirit as for the fig tree to bear figs or for the rosebush to yield roses. His nature is so thoroughly imbued with love for God and his fellowmen that he works the works of Christ with a willing heart. His life is hid with God in Christ; yet he does not boast of this, nor seem conscious of it." Beautifully said, right Lyn? There is more on that page but I think you get the drift of it. I hope it answers your question. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Gibs Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Sky, There just is no doubt about it, "WE MUST HAVE THE FAITH OF JESUS." Re 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Those who stand clear of the "mark", notice keep the commandments and have "the faith of Jesus" That is the program, "the faith of Jesus"! 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Dr. Rich Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Gibs, not sure which bible you are using, but Rev. 14:12 in the NSAB says "their faith IN Jesus (the words/testimony of Jesus). The KJV is perhaps the worst translation you can ever find as there are many, many errors in it! Almost all of the other translations have "their faith in Jesus" or they are loyal to the words of Jesus. Rev. 12:17 confirms that they must keep all of the ten commandments and hold fast to the words or testimony of Jesus and not to anyone else's words.
Gibs Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Dr Rich, I will never leave the KJV for one that streamed from the other texts. No translation is perfect. The rest all are copyrighted and one cannot copyright the Word of God. I know what is wrong. They have to have so many let outs and add ons to be able to do so. I had a couple corrupt versions and don't want no more. The list is huge in the additions and omissions in the different versions. I have learned the language of the KJV and know which words have changed in meaning. What I note is that one must have the faith of Jeus to keep the commandments of God. Those whom He dwells in have His Faith as our faith is not much against the wiles of Satan. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Moderators John317 Posted February 4, 2012 Moderators Posted February 4, 2012 The KJV is perhaps the worst translation you can ever find as there are many, many errors in it! This is false. The KJV tells the same basic message that you will find in any other Bible. All of the doctrines that you will find in the NASB are found also in the KJV. More people have been led to trusting obedience in Christ by studying the KJV than any other English translation. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 4, 2012 Moderators Posted February 4, 2012 ....Rev. 14:12 in the NSAB says "their faith IN Jesus (the words/testimony of Jesus). ... Almost all of the other translations have "their faith in Jesus" or they are loyal to the words of Jesus. Rev. 12:17 confirms that they must keep all of the ten commandments and hold fast to the words or testimony of Jesus and not to anyone else's words. The Greek of 12: 17 has "the faith of Jesus." The New Revised Standard Version reads, "holds fast to the faith of Jesus." kai thn pistin ihsou The noun, ihsou (Jesus), is genitive, which is possessive, and is typically translated "of Jesus." But it can actually be translated as "the faith of Jesus" or "the faith in Jesus." Being loyal to Jesus doesn't mean only paying attention to the words of Jesus found in the Gospels of John & Matthew. Jesus also speaks to us through the writings He inspired, including the books of the Old Testament and all those of the New. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
12tribes Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 I like the idea of having the faith of Jesus because His is a faith that never fails. Faith is a gift of God so it must be the faith of Jesus Galatians 3:29(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Dr. Rich Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Can anyone show me where Jesus had any faith? Sure, He had trust, but what about faith? He didn't need any faith because He knew the truth about His Father and the Holy Spirit! Just like no one will ever need faith in heaven, as they will know the real truth which replaces faith. Didn't Jesus say that no one lays down His life or takes it back up other than Himself? What did He mean by that? Can one have faith in something that is not the truth? When one actually knows the truth, does he need to have faith about truth anymore? A child entering a dark room turns on the switch and the light goes on. She has no idea why, but simply has faith that the light will go on when she hits the switch. But one day the light does not go on when she hits the switch--then what happens to her faith? On the other hand, an electriction knows the truth about how a light works so when the switch does not turn on the light, he simply fixes the problem. Therefore, his knowledge of the truth concerning electricity replaced his faith in the switch making the light work. Same goes for the knowledge of how salvation works. Knowing the truth replaces having faith what you believe will work. Since Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will lead (not give you) into ALL truth (regarding salvation), then just where would the Holy Spirit lead one to know the real truth? Well Duh? How about the testimony of Jesus? After all, didn't Jesus say the reason He was born of this world was to testify to the truth (what His Father told Him to say)? (John 18:37) What I am saying is simply this, that it is the Holy Spirit's job so to speak, to lead people to the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses. Those words ARE the real truth! Period! And I doubt if anyone can argue with that.
jamesonofthunder Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 About the faith of Jesus versus faith in Jesus. We cannot have faith in Jesus unless we have the faith that only Jesus can impart. Right? I love this topic. You are right on Sky. I was shown exactly what your friend Lynn was talking about, if I may. Christ in us, the hope of glory. He dwells in us so we receive HIS faith. HIS faith endured through the worst things that can happen to a soul and kept Him focused on the Father even through hell. Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, which is by the faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all those who believe. By believing, we receive the faith OF Jesus. Galatians 3:22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. It has been illustrated to me this way. We cannot see past our own time or surroundings, but God wants us to see the end. That's why He had His Son tell us all we need to know in advance. Jesus has been through everything and has come through death and resurrection. So now we have the advantage to receive His faith, the faith that already sees us as victors in Him. The author and finisher of our faith, is the one who has THE FAITH.
jamesonofthunder Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Throughout his later ministry, Paul never lost sight of the Source of his wisdom and strength. Hear him, years afterward, still declaring, “For to me to live is Christ.” Philippians 1:21. And again: “I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, ... that I may win Christ, and be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: that I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings.” Philippians 3:8-10. {AA 128.1}
jamesonofthunder Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 This same understanding harmonizes with the correct understanding of what it is to be "in the NAME of Jesus" People pray what they want and say "in the name of Jesus", but it is in vain that they try to cover their false assumptions by the name of Christ. To truly be and speak in the name of Jesus, is to speak His Fathers thoughts and be motivated by His will. This is the true Spirit of Prophecy.
Moderators John317 Posted February 4, 2012 Moderators Posted February 4, 2012 Can anyone show me where Jesus had any faith? Sure, He had trust, but what about faith? He didn't need any faith because He knew the truth about His Father and the Holy Spirit! Just like no one will ever need faith in heaven, as they will know the real truth which replaces faith. From the biblical perspective, there is no real difference between faith and trust. Perhaps you are thinking of the way people today consider faith as being blind, but that is not the way the Gospels view faith. Every day of Jesus' life on earth was lived by faith in His Heavenly Father. Wouldn't you agree that Christ demonstrated His faith in God when He was in the Garden just prior to His arrest, and again, on the cross, when He cried, "My God, why have you forsaken Me?"? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 4, 2012 Moderators Posted February 4, 2012 I like the idea of having the faith of Jesus because His is a faith that never fails. Faith is a gift of God so it must be the faith of Jesus Yep, I agree. We want and need the same faith that Jesus had, and we can only have it through the Spirit of Christ. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Rich Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Yes, I would agree John317, but then I wouldn't say that Jesus' "faith" was the same faith as the majority of people today say about faith who call themselves Christian, either. I have a problem with "Righteousness by Faith", as the majority say that the ten commandments is not important anymore. So this 'faith' is totally without keeping all of the ten commandments. I know you and many others here on this forum don't believe that way and that is good. One of the reasons I know that the SDA is the KOH right now is because they profess to keep all of the ten commandments. But many now are pushing grace in place of keeping all of the ten commandments, and I find that really sad. Don't you agree with this?
tall73 Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich ....Rev. 14:12 in the NSAB says "their faith IN Jesus (the words/testimony of Jesus). ... Almost all of the other translations have "their faith in Jesus" or they are loyal to the words of Jesus. Rev. 12:17 confirms that they must keep all of the ten commandments and hold fast to the words or testimony of Jesus and not to anyone else's words. The Greek of 12: 17 has "the faith of Jesus." The New Revised Standard Version reads, "holds fast to the faith of Jesus." kai thn pistin ihsou The noun, ihsou (Jesus), is genitive, which is possessive, and is typically translated "of Jesus." But it can actually be translated as "the faith of Jesus" or "the faith in Jesus." As you note it can by form be translated several ways. It could even be an ablative of source for faith "from" Jesus but that doesn't seem to be in line with the context. Roberts Word Pictures, Vincent's, and the Linguistic and Exegetical key to the Greek New Testament take this as an objective genetive which would be in line with "faith in Jesus". Since there is no preposition it is open to interpretation. Former Seventh-day Adventist
Gibs Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 The understanding of what the text means determines whether it is "faith of Jesus" or not. If it requires "of" to obtaine the promise then that is the meaning. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ
skyblue888 Posted February 4, 2012 Author Posted February 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: skyblue888 About the faith of Jesus versus faith in Jesus. We cannot have faith in Jesus unless we have the faith that only Jesus can impart. Right? I love this topic. You are right on Sky. I was shown exactly what your friend Lynn was talking about, if I may. Christ in us, the hope of glory. He dwells in us so we receive HIS faith. HIS faith endured through the worst things that can happen to a soul and kept Him focused on the Father even through hell. Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, which is by the faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all those who believe. By believing, we receive the faith OF Jesus. Galatians 3:22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. It has been illustrated to me this way. We cannot see past our own time or surroundings, but God wants us to see the end. That's why He had His Son tell us all we need to know in advance. Jesus has been through everything and has come through death and resurrection. So now we have the advantage to receive His faith, the faith that already sees us as victors in Him. The author and finisher of our faith, is the one who has THE FAITH. The "Author and Finisher of our faith," (Heb.12:2) is the One who has THE FAITH. Right on. This verse alone says it all. Our "faith" is but unbelief. "Lord help mine unbelief." It is the "faith of Jesus" we are to have and exercise. "The faith which is by Him has given him perfect soundness in the presence of you all." Acts 3:16. "that all men through Him might believe." John 1:7. "Who by Him do believe in God." 1 Peter 1:21. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted February 4, 2012 Author Posted February 4, 2012 Notice these words: "In Christ dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. This is why, although He was tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world, from His first entrance into it, untainted by corruption, though surrounded by it. Are we not to become partakers of that fullness and is it not thus and thus only that we can overcome as He overcame?" E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.7,907; MS 16,1890. The apostle Paul prayed that Christ might dwell in our hearts by faith that we might be filled with all the fullness of God! (Eph.3:14-19) When this is our experience, for "His experience is to be ours," (D.A.363) the faith of Jesus will again be "spoken of throughout the whole world." (Rom.1:8) As "Men will be captivated by the glory of an abiding Christ. And in currents of praise and thanksgiving from the many souls thus won to God, glory will flow back to the great Giver... The divine fullness will flow through the consecrated human agent to be given forth to others... So from every true disciple is to be diffused an influence for life, courage, helpfulness, and true healing." Christ's Object Lessons, 420,419. Thus "With divinity and humanity combined you can accomplish a work as enduring as eternity." Faith & Works,27. For "The law of the human and the divine action makes the receiver a laborer together with God; it brings man where he can, united with divinity, works the works of God. Humanity touches humanity. Divne power and the human agency combined will be a complete success for Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." Faith & Works,27. "Separate humanity from divinity, and you can try to work out your own righteousness (salvation) from now till Christ comes, and it will be nothing but a failure." Faith & Works,71. "If divine power--divinity of Christ--does not combine with human effort, I would not give a straw for all that the greatest man could do." 1 S.M.411. "When divine power--divinity of Christ--is combined with human effort, the work will spread like fire in the stubble." 1 S.M.118. As you can see, the works that are to be accomplished through the faith of Jesus, that is, through the law of the human and the divine action will be of the highest consequence and the works will be a complete success. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted February 4, 2012 Author Posted February 4, 2012 I like the idea of having the faith of Jesus because His is a faith that never fails. Faith is a gift of God so it must be the faith of Jesus Amen. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
skyblue888 Posted February 6, 2012 Author Posted February 6, 2012 More on the faith of Jesus... "My ears You have opened." Ps.40:6. "For I stand at the door and knock; if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come into him, and will sup with him, and he with Me." Revelation 3:20. How does He come in? He says, "If any man hear My voice and open the door, I will come into him." "Hearkening unto the voice of His word." Psalm 103:20. And the door is the door of faith. "And when they had come and gathered the church together, they reported all that God had done with them, and that He had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles." Acts 14:27. But what is this door of faith? The door of faith is the ear. "Incline your ear and your soul shall live." Isaiah 555:3. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." Romans 10:17. When the ear, which is the door of faith, is opened, the soul hears the voice of God in the ten commandments and the voice of God imparts power, it begets the life of Christ into the soul of the hearer, even the life of the Infinite One! "Mine ears You have opened." Psalm 40:6. "The Lord God has opened my ear." Isaiah 50:5. "He awakens me morning by morning, He awakens my ear to hear as the learned." Isaiah 50: 4. Notice these words from the SoP: "Only he who receives the scriptures as the voice of God speaking to himself is a true learner." C.O.L.59. And this, "The scriptures are to be received as God's Word to us, not written merely but spoken." M.H.122. In Volume 6 of the Testimonies, we read, "The Word of the living God is not merely written but spoken. The Bible is God's voice speaking to us, just as surely as though we could hear it with our ears. If we realized this, with what awe would we open God's word and with what earnestness would we search its precepts." 6 T 393. Doesn't that remind you of this passage: "My heart stands in awe of Your word." Psalm 119:161. David was a true learner. He received the ten commandments as the voice of God speaking to himself. To him the reception of the word, not merely engraved on stones for "the letter kills," 2 Cor.3:6, but spoken, was the reception of Christ Himself. He understood that the ten words were "living oracles" (Acts 7:38) and thus he said, "I will never forget Your commandments, for by them You have given me life." Psalm 119:92,93,50. In the ten precepts of God's mouth David heard the voice of God in Christ and was revived. He prayed to God, saying, "My soul clings to the dust; Revive me according to Your word." Psalm 119:25. In His precepts or commandments, David heard the voice of Him whose word could renew his soul unto everlasting life! By receiving the law from His lips, Christ came into Him to sup with him and he with Him. "The law of Your mouth is better to me than thousands of shekels of gold and silver." Ps.119:72. David understood that to receive God's law of ten commandmenst from His mouth was to receive Christ Himself who alone can fulfill the law's demands! His ear was opened. He heard the voice of God in His commandments and he said, Be it done unto me as you have spoken! He responded as did the virgin Mary. (Luke 1:38,45) Thus to him every command was a promise, a most positive promise of its own fulfillment. By receiving the ten words as the voice of God from Heaven speaking to himself, he received the grace of God, the Spirit of Christ to help his infirmities and to form a Christian character. Thus to him the law spoken on Sinai was the word of His grace. (Acts 20:32,24) David was a Christian. He believed in Christ. He trusted in the merits of a Saviour to come and he learned to live by every word that proceeded out of the MOUTH of God! Matt.4:4. We too must trust in the merits of a Savior who has come and hear His voice and live! "The law of ten precepts of the greatest love ever presented to man is the voice of God from Heaven speaking to the soul in promise. There is not a negative in that law although it may appear thus." E.G.White, B.C. Vol.1, p.1105. "Every command is a promise." Education,126; Christ's Object Lessons,38; Mount of Blessing,76. "All His biddings are enablings." C.O.L.333. Could this be the key of the house of David? See Isaiah 22:22; Rev.3:7,20; Isaiah 55:3; Acts 14:27; Rom.10:17. sky "The reception of the Word (not merely written but spoken), the bread from Heaven, is declared to be the reception of Christ Himself." E.G. White. The Lord Himself has given the command: "Abide in Me and I in you." "Continue in My love." John 15:4,9. This is the law and the prophets. Do we hear His voice? Have our ears been opened? Only those who hunger and thirst for salvation and are resting in the merits of Christ for their acceptance with God can be made to hear the voice that brings salvation. The Holy Spirit opens their ears that they may live by every word that proceeds out of the MOUTH of God. (Matt.4:4) The law of God's mouth is the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, the ministry of the Spirit and Life to us through the merits of the blood shed for us upon Calvary's cross. "All Your commandments--recieved from Your mouth--are righteousness." Psalm 119:172. "Receive, I pray thee, the law from His mouth." Job 22:22. "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Dr. Rich Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 So tell me then, just what is IT that those in the OT become saved? Did they have to have the faith OF Jesus or did they have to have faith in the words of Jesus, which He clearly said that He did NOT come to change anything in the Scripures (Law and Prophets)? The answer can ONLY be that they had to have trust IN the words of God and Keep or obey those same words--and that goes for what Jesus said too and found in Matt. 19 and Rev. 12:17.
Moderators John317 Posted February 7, 2012 Moderators Posted February 7, 2012 Yes, I would agree John317, but then I wouldn't say that Jesus' "faith" was the same faith as the majority of people today say about faith who call themselves Christian, either. I have a problem with "Righteousness by Faith", as the majority say that the ten commandments is not important anymore. I have the same problem with that. True "Righteousness by Faith" does not teach that the Ten Commandments are no longer important. That would be a false understanding of Righteousness by Faith. Under the New Covenant, the Ten Commandments are being written by the Holy Spirit on our hearts and minds. True Righteousness by Faith, then, is made manifest in the keeping of God's commandments because of love for God and trust in the Messiah. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Dr. Rich Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 I'll buy that John317, but I don't see that Jesus ever said that there was a "new covenant" even though I see the KJV in Matthew says that--but not in the other versions I have. It's the same covenant but the "new" part is where it is now--in the heart and mind as you so well wrote. You know John317, I really don't have much of an argument with your theology, as it's what SDA's now believe, just as I do too. Yes, I do know where your coming from and that's ok with me.
jamesonofthunder Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 So tell me then, just what is IT that those in the OT become saved? Did they have to have the faith OF Jesus or did they have to have faith in the words of Jesus, which He clearly said that He did NOT come to change anything in the Scripures (Law and Prophets)? The answer can ONLY be that they had to have trust IN the words of God and Keep or obey those same words--and that goes for what Jesus said too and found in Matt. 19 and Rev. 12:17. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth. Every word that proceeds from the mouth of Jesus has creative power. He spoke and those words created and sustained the heavens. He spoke and Mary conceived. The faith OF Jesus knows this power is His to command. He knew He could walk on water, and was so unafraid of the stormy seas that He could peacefully sleep through a category 5 hurricane because He knew it was not yet His time to die as He had foretold anciently. He spoke in the old testament to the Prophets, and when the fullness of time came those words were fulfilled perfectly to the letter, on time. Knowing this is only afforded to those who receive HIS faith. By HIS FAITH Abel offered a better sacrifice than Cain did. Here is the Power of God unto righteousness. He speaks and gives us the power to be perfect like HIS Father. When He said "though shalt not Kill" to fallen Adam, He was literally speaking the power to overcome into existence by HIS FAITH. THIS COMPREHENSION IS THE FAITH OF JESUS. Thank you Father for your Son's Faith and your mercy.
tall73 Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 I'll buy that John317, but I don't see that Jesus ever said that there was a "new covenant" even though I see the KJV in Matthew says that--but not in the other versions I have. Looks like He said it. Luk 22:20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. Former Seventh-day Adventist
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