"faith of Jesus" vs "faith in Jesus"

[jamesonofthunder]

"The Lord hath set apart him that is godly for Himself; this consecration to God and separation from the world is plainly and positively enjoined in both the Old and the New Testament. There is a wall of separation which the Lord Himself has established between the things of the world and the things He has chosen out of the world and sanctified unto Himself. The calling and character of God’s people are peculiar, their prospects are peculiar, and these peculiarities distinguish them from all other people. All of God’s people upon the earth are one body, from the beginning to the end of time. They have one Head that directs and governs the body. The same injunctions that rested upon ancient Israel, rest upon God’s people now, to be separate from the world. The great Head of the church has not changed. The experience of Christians in these days is much like the travels of ancient Israel. Please read 1 Corinthians 10, especially from the 6th to the 15th verse: {1T 283.4}

Please pay attention here.

When men arise, claiming to have a message from God, but instead of warring against principalities and powers, and the rulers of the darkness of this world, they form a hollow square, and turn the weapons of warfare against the church militant, be afraid of them. They do not bear the divine credentials. God has not given them any such burden of labor. They would tear down that which God would restore by the Laodicean message. He wounds only that He may heal, not cause to perish. The Lord lays upon no man a message that will discourage and dishearten the church. He reproves, He rebukes, He chastens; but it is only that He may restore and approve at last. How glad my heart was made by the report from the General Conference that many hearts were softened and subdued, that many made humble confessions, and cleared away from the door of the heart the rubbish that was keeping the Saviour out. How glad I was to know that many welcomed Jesus in as an abiding guest. How is it that these pamphlets denouncing the Seventh-day Adventist Church as Babylon [see appendix.] were scattered abroad everywhere, at the very time when that church was receiving the outpouring of the Spirit of God? How is it that men can be so deceived as to imagine that the loud cry consists in calling the people of God out from the fellowship of a church that is enjoying a season of refreshing? Oh, may these deceived souls come into the current, and receive the blessing, and be endued with power from on high. {TM 22.2}

This is God's warning to you and your comrades....It would be very wise for you to take this heart RIGHT NOW.

[jamesonofthunder]

Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder

So what I have been told is correct, you do teach separation from the Adventist Church? Then why are you here every day? Wouldn't it be prudent to leave us alone, unless it is your plan to do damage to a church you hate. That sounds pretty maniacal to me.

This is from someone who cares.

Sky is a lot closer to truth than you are. At least he teaches the 'merits of Christ' and not the merits of man or should I say the delusions of man.

You are delusional, right?

You have been exposed and your true nature is revealed.

[ClubV12]

OF course the message of righteouness by faith is the greatest blessing mankind can ever hear. It is also a message that is easily misunderstood by many, if not most.

We see the constant battle between trying to understand faith/grace and works. Both ARE necessary, while it remains true there is nothing we can ever hope to do to merit salvation.

Lets assume then that you have come to a perfect understanding of the two apparently opposing issues, grace vs works. You accept it, thank God for it, rejoice in it. THEN your told you can't possibly understand it, the evidence is clear you haven't really accepted it because you remain a member of some "organization". An organization such as the Seventh-day Adventist Church. That the ONLY way you can possibly understand righteousness by faith and as a result the only you can find salvation is if you leave that Church. The message slowly becomes clear, stay in the Church and your lost, your soul is in peril. Eternal life DEMANDS you leave the Church.

Is this the true message of righteousness by faith? It is not, it is a seriously disguised wolf in sheeps clothing.

[cheddar]

You have been exposed and your true nature is revealed.

NO. They don't allow profanity on this forum so my true nature is definitely not revealed.

[ClubV12]

Cheddar,,, had to chuckle over that, personally, I am thankful you are not allowed to reveal your true character, based on what you said. :)

[Dr. Rich]

OF course the message of righteouness by faith is the greatest blessing mankind can ever hear. It is also a message that is easily misunderstood by many, if not most.

We see the constant battle between trying to understand faith/grace and works. Both ARE necessary, while it remains true there is nothing we can ever hope to do to merit salvation.

Lets assume then that you have come to a perfect understanding of the two apparently opposing issues, grace vs works. You accept it, thank God for it, rejoice in it. THEN your told you can't possibly understand it, the evidence is clear you haven't really accepted it because you remain a member of some "organization". An organization such as the Seventh-day Adventist Church. That the ONLY way you can possibly understand righteousness by faith and as a result the only you can find salvation is if you leave that Church. The message slowly becomes clear, stay in the Church and your lost, your soul is in peril. Eternal life DEMANDS you leave the Church.

Is this the true message of righteousness by faith? It is not, it is a seriously disguised wolf in sheeps clothing.

Club, who was it that taught righteousness by faith to cause you and millions of others to become deceived into believing it was the truth? It was not Jesus, as He NEVER taught that. He said you must abide in His words to show your true love. Do you call that 'works'?

Where did Jesus ever say or teach that anyone could ever be saved by grace?

[Guest]

Where did Jesus ever say or teach that anyone could ever be saved by grace?

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.

What would you call that, if it's not grace?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Where did Jesus ever say or teach that anyone could ever be saved by grace?

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.

What would you call that, if it's not grace?

RLH, I can't wait to hear the answer to that!

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Where did Jesus ever say or teach that anyone could ever be saved by grace?

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.

What would you call that, if it's not grace?

Good question.

[doug yowell]

Where did Jesus ever say or teach that anyone could ever be saved by grace?

Like maybe in everything He ever said? "If you knew the gift of God and Who it is who says to you,"Give me a drink," you would have asked Him, and He would have GIVEN you living water."

[Dr. Rich]

PK: "I can't wait to hear the answer to that!"

LOL--I can't believe I am conversing with people who can't read the whole text (context) to find out the true meaning of a verse!!! What gives with you guys (as I shake my head)??? PLEASE read the next verse and it will (maybe) open your eyes and then go read what Jesus said about this in John 3:11-13 as the whole issue must be taken into account. Now read what John the B. said in Jn. 3:27 and 31-36. This has nothing to do with being saved by grace, but I will agree that by the grace of Jesus He came to theis earth to testify to the truth (John 18:37) so that those who hear will be drawn to Him. Problem is, as we see in Matthew 13:9-13, those who can't understand or are not practicing the truth already (John 3:21) can't come to the light so that their deeds are worthless.

[jamesonofthunder]

Dr. Rich,

"It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it".

George Washington

If you do not believe in the Spirit of Prophecy why do you come to our meetings and darken counsel in our company? Your own ministry claims to be more enlightened than our faith so why come to us? You have your own flock don't you? Surely your ministry is accomplishing great things if your comprehension is greater than the Adventist faith. Surely God has blessed your flock, eh? How many baptisms?

We as Seventh Day Adventists all believe that every word in the 66 books of scripture are profitable for our growth in Christ, if you do not I ask you in the name of Jesus to go away. I pray that you do. You have not one shred of decency, and prove it by darkening counsel in the way of the faithful. You are about to cross a threshold that will be your horror and I implore you to reconsider your heresy. If not leave us be.

[Dr. Rich]

Do you have a mouse in your pocket? NO, your 'we' is you and ONLY those who think like you do! This is NOT YOUR FORUM, nor is it mine. Read the words about how to treat others on here.

And NO, I am not here to start any new church or religion. I am a true SDA and have been one for over 50 years. I come from a three generation family of Adventists and have learned that Adventists are like a family, but not all family members think and believe in the same thing either. What Jesus said to do in Matthew 28:20 is ALL that I do. It's your choice to believe in the words of Jesus or not.

If one of the family members receives education on something, he then shares this with other family members. (One of them becomes a dentist--then the family all go to this dentist for treatment). Well, the same thing goes with being in the family of Adventists--it an on going relationship, that is until someone refuses to listen to those who have been educated and lets their teeth rot.

You my friend, can allow 'your teeth to rot', (it's your own choice) but others may truely enjoy the knowledge another family member may have learned.

I have never said that I do NOT believe in the Spirit of Prophecy as the bible says it is! Some day soon you may wake up too late to this 'surprise'.

[Overaged]

lol cheddar, that made me laugh...

[skyblue888]

So what I have been told is correct, you do teach separation from the Adventist Church? Then why are you here every day? Wouldn't it be prudent to leave us alone, unless it is your plan to do damage to a church you hate. That sounds pretty maniacal to me. This is from someone who cares.

Jamessonofthunder

_________

James, if you mean me, you obviously have been misinformed or misled.

I have been on this forum for more than 10 years now and I have never even given the least indication or suggestion in my posts that I believe in anything like a message to come out of the church. On the contrary I have always opposed those who teach such a message.

Some here know that I have always said that in the unrolling of the prophetc scroll, according to the parable of Matt.22 which began to be fulfilled in 1844, that we were living in the time of "added probation" for the church before the message swells into the loud cry to the world.

I still believe and teach that the first call came between 1888 and 1903 and that it was rejected as predicted in the parable. We are now living in the time of the second call. The bearers of this last message to the church will be men and women of God's own choosing, men and women who are not too learned or too wise to believe just what God says. If this message is rejected again and the bearers of the message persecuted (character assassinated), they will have no choice but to turn to the world with their message and the whole earth will be illuminated by its glory and then the end will come as the judgment of the living at the end of the loud cry will accomplish the final separation between the good and the bad and their destiny will be forever fixed.

So, James, if anyone sends you a private message of warning about me that I am calling the church Babylon or teach that the time has come to call people out of the church, your duty is to ask them for evidence of their claims.

Fair enough? Plus all can take a good look at my website which I have shared here many times and see for themselves if the accusations are true or not. James, again I invite you to take a close look at the third booklet on my website titled THAT WHICH HAS BEEN WILL BE and you will see for yourself what I really believe and teach.

Thank you and God bless,

sky

[Dr. Rich]

No Sky, I don't think that was directed to you and YOU have always been straight forward with your posts! While we may not agree on some issues, I have always had total respect for you and your posts! In fact, I have actually learned some great things from your posts. No, you have never said that the SDA church is Babylon.

[skyblue888]

How long have you, Dr. Rich, been a member of this forum?

[jamesonofthunder]

Do you have a mouse in your pocket? NO, your 'we' is you and ONLY those who think like you do! This is NOT YOUR FORUM, nor is it mine. Read the words about how to treat others on here.

And NO, I am not here to start any new church or religion. I am a true SDA and have been one for over 50 years. I come from a three generation family of Adventists and have learned that Adventists are like a family, but not all family members think and believe in the same thing either. What Jesus said to do in Matthew 28:20 is ALL that I do. It's your choice to believe in the words of Jesus or not.

If one of the family members receives education on something, he then shares this with other family members. (One of them becomes a dentist--then the family all go to this dentist for treatment). Well, the same thing goes with being in the family of Adventists--it an on going relationship, that is until someone refuses to listen to those who have been educated and lets their teeth rot.

You my friend, can allow 'your teeth to rot', (it's your own choice) but others may truely enjoy the knowledge another family member may have learned.

I have never said that I do NOT believe in the Spirit of Prophecy as the bible says it is! Some day soon you may wake up too late to this 'surprise'.

Why did your radio broadcast get thrown off campus? You were using Loma Linda University to share your heresy, and they told you to leave correct?

Quote from your website;

"We will be on air as usual. We have been restricted by our church from broadcasting the program from the church campus..."

This is the WE that I speak of. I am a Seventh Day Adventist Christian to the core.

I have read the book published by Dennis and you, from the 'Spirit of Truth Ministries' and you and your colleagues are NOT Seventh Day Adventists.

The 55lb hailstone that fell through the roof at Loma Linda University gymnasium a few years ago was aimed by God to warn people like you there in Loma Linda. That's just a drop from the storehouse of the last plague that will be against you.

See; http://lastplaguedrops.blogspot.com/2012/01/revelation-1621-from-sky-huge.html

Dennis said the Melanoma cancer that he got after the beginning of his book was because Satan was trying to discourage him? Not a chance, it was because the Spirit of God and His protection is being withdrawn from all of you for writing and supporting it.

You want to try to curse me with 'rotting teeth'? You have just pronounced your own curse.

"The Saviour's prophecy concerning the visitation of judgments upon Jerusalem is to have another fulfillment, of which that terrible desolation was but a faint shadow. In the fate of the chosen city we may behold the doom of a world that has rejected God's mercy and trampled upon His law."--GC 36 (1911).

I am sent to warn you. Your blood will be upon your own head.

[Tom Wetmore]

The topic was locked because of the harsh tone of judgments and condemnations directed at specific individuals being hurled about. That sort of conduct is not appropriate for these forums.

Global Moderator

[Gibs]

We are to desire I do believe to have the "faith of Jesus" and when we exercise it it surely will become greater.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Lu 17:6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.

From the verse above we surely need to increased faith, do we even have a mustard seed worth?

2Co 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

For your correction, never has anyone ever broadcast from Loma Linda University or it's church. Twisting your assumptions around will only cause you to look foolish. Let's not jab one another anymore as it should be clear we all are 'brothers' on this planet and in need of knowing the real truth because it is truth and practicing it that sets one free from sin.

[Gibs]

It is high time we all went to work and become increased in Faith. None of us have enough. We need to pray and ask Him for more and to continually use what we have. I rather believe we need both "the faith of Jesus" and "faith in Jesus".

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

I rather believe we need both "the faith of Jesus" and "faith in Jesus".