Conservatism VS Legalism VS Liberalism

[Gibs]

First the conservatism has this for it's possible meaning depending on application and time implied,

Conservatism implies, old school traditionalist conventional.

Liberalism implies, tolerance open and broadminded freethinking.

Legalism implies, strict, or excessive conformity to the law or moral code.

The only way you could place some of us as conseratives in our salvation stance would be to specify as to what time you are referring to in tradition. The case in Adventism, back to the days when it was mostly "legalism" or to the days "righteouness by faith" came in and then even a little latter when it was refinned more after 1888.

As for me you may call me a conservative if you are referring to the time when Adventism refinned "righteouness by faith" a bit more which was 3 to 5 years in developing.

I will not hold to the title of a "legalist" or a "liberalist" as I am neither.

I don't want to be called a "conservative" because of what some make of the meaning. That label, term should not be considered.

What must be considered is, are we or you in the middle of that straight and narrow path after you get through that "strait" gate? You see you then are neither "Legalist" or "Liberalist" and needn't be called a "conservative".

So the question I present to be answered to yourself is,

Do you fall under any of the three above "labels"?, you shouldn't if you are on that path Jesus would have you on.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Jesus was a LIberal. ANd I am proud to stick up for Jesus the SOP and liberalism.

[ClubV12]

I found it most interesting that during the 1888 R by F considerations, Sister White noted she had been preaching R by F for the last 50 years!

A concept I had never thought to look for or seen in her writings specifically. With this thought in mind, I NOW see indeed that is exactly what she had been preaching for the last 50 years. The fact is, I see righteousness by faith everywhere I look NOW! I even found it in Daniel 12:7, of all places. Thats about the LAST place I would have thought to find it, and yet, it seems clear to me.

Of course I allow for the elasticity of the word of God and am not suprised others have a different interpretation for Daniel 12:7. I'm OK with that. When the power of the Holy people is broken (self is entirely eliminated, their need of Christ is the only thing left), THEN shall the end come.

There is a wonderful harmony between righteousness by faith and the law. James and Paul, understood that well.

"Labels" just don't work for me, one day I'm conservative, the next I'm liberal. When the need arises, yes, I am also a legalist!

[Woody]

It may be everywhere in the SOP and scripture - but our churches are flooded with what we see a lot of here - legalism.

[ClubV12]

I don't see it that way Woody. For instance, when some say the Sabbath has no bearing and was done away with at the cross, is it "legalism" to point out the Sabbath is indeed a "requirement" of the law? If so, at such times, I am a "legalist".

James could certainly be considered a "legalist", he was all about the necessity of the law. I have yet to find a SINGLE person on this forum that believes keeping the law will lead to salvation. And yet, I can see your point where there are many, myself included, that (like James did) preach the law. Sister White clearly said keeping the law will not lead to salvation, she also said ignoring the law could lead to your ruin. So, which one is it??

Consider the health message, but WHY? I believe it has more to do with spiritual enlightenment than physical health. All though the two go hand in hand of course. But PRIMARILY a healthy lifestyle awakens the MIND to spiritual things. It allows us to understand spiritual things we cannot grasp without it.

[Woody]

Quote:

I have yet to find a SINGLE person on this forum that believes keeping the law will lead to salvation

WEll I suppose you're right. What I've heard here is that keeping the law IS your salvation.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

Is right, EGW always preached R. by F. and it was when Jones and Wagoner came that it was seen that many were of the legalist stance and it began to be preached.

The problem though began fairly quick also of some taking it to the extreme and liberalism came in and today it is not recognized by many as most now are hard that way, it's the "new age theology" of today that has taken Christendom by storm.

Folks can you not see that if it were true it would be the few in professing Christ that would not be saved. It is the few that find the way, just the opposite!

Hey all are rich and in the need of nothing to the greatest extent. Laodicean! Come out of her He calls to His people. She is a part of Babylon the Great today.

The true way has always been in the scriptures, old and new testaments.

Ps 40:6 ¶ Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Ps 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Ps 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Ps 40:9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.

Ps 40:10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.

Ps 40:11 ¶ Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

There is a wonderful harmony between righteousness by faith and the law. James and Paul, understood that well.

"Labels" just don't work for me, one day I'm conservative, the next I'm liberal. When the need arises, yes, I am also a legalist!

[Woody]

Quote:

"Labels" just don't work for me, one day I'm conservative, the next I'm liberal. When the need arises, yes, I am also a legalist!

Please Please - the next time you feel some liberal tendancies comin' on - DO give me the heads up. I would like to see that.

[Gibs]

Well I'm neither of the three when it comes to the salvation issue and that is the one we are discussing here.

Yes sure at times I'm even downright frugal too but does that count here. Sometimes ya have to make every dollar count and it used to be pennies. Right now I'm with the poor old people of this old world.

Conservative is not the right term for a see on how you see one of the salvation issue. One is a legalist, somewhat legalist or liberal or somewhat liberal or,

Ideally he is in the middle of the road and none into either ditch,

in how he sees he is to walk to please our God and Saviour.

Ah we want to be good drivers and stay out of either of them there ditches.

That way no label is relevant or can be applied.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

As we all know, in the days of Christ, within the Jewish church, there were the two main parties. The Liberals and the Conservatives. These had sharp disagreements and were constantly at each other's throats just like the Liberals and the Conservatives of today in the Adventist church. There is nothing new under the sun. But lo and behold there came a time when these two parties forgot their differences in order to fight a common enemy in the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

History will be repeated.

There is coming a time when Liberals and Conservatives in the church will forget their differences and they will unite to fight a common foe, Christ in the persons of the messengers He sends to them. They will not only reject the heavenly illumination as they did between 1888 and 1903 but they will character assassinate the bearers of that message and thus probation will close for the professed church and the bearers of that last message of mercy will be forced to turn to the world and their message will swell into the loud cry and when the mission of the Gospel is completed, the judgment of the living will accomplish the final separation between the good and the evil and their destiny will be forever fixed.

sky

[ClubV12]

I think what Sky is saying is the legalists win in the end.

[skyblue888]

I believe Liberals and Conservatives in the United States government will also unite to fight that same foe.

[doug yowell]

Jesus was a LIberal. ANd I am proud to stick up for Jesus the SOP and liberalism.

You mean a Progressive? And I always thought you were a Republican.

[doug yowell]

I think what Sky is saying is the legalists win in the end.

I'm not sure that win would be the operative word here.

[Gibs]

Hey come on you guys, don't you think the winners will be those few who are neither legalists or liberalists.

I don't think conservative is the right term here for the middle of the road runners with Jesus either.

That's what we want to be "middle of the road runners" with Jesus our God and Saviour. He beckons, "follow Me".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Hey come on you guys, don't you think the winners will be those few who are neither legalists or liberalists.

The battle here is between good and evil. One or the other WILL win. From the Bible and the SOP - I know who will be the winner.

[Dr. Rich]

The common law is God's law as the maxim of law (Bovier's law Dictionary 1856) states: Man made law (statutory or legal) have a birth, life and death, while the common law has not beginning and no end.

The One world Order will attempt to do away with the common law because it can't control those who abide by it. Therefore, it's not about conservatism or legalism, it's about those who keep and abide by the common law (God's original law) verses those who abide by Statutory Laws from man.

[Woody]

Quote:

I don't think conservative is the right term here for the middle of the road runners with Jesus either.

Just because on is 'close' to the Truth - does not mean that they have Truth. You are either for Truth and Good - or you are for Evil. It has to be one or the other. A mixture of good with your evil is not a positive trait. IT just draws more to evil.

Folks - you are either on one side or the other. Don't let people fool you.

[CoAspen]

To quote..

"My momma always said, it just depends on where you are standing, just don't stand under a flock of pigeons".

F. Gump

[Woody]

To quote..

"My momma always said, it just depends on where you are standing, just don't stand under a flock of pigeons".

F. Gump

Good Point CoA

[Gibs]

No, no, you must stay out of either of those two ditches, all muddy in the bottom, and so He gave a light so we could stay on the path and not get stuck in the "STUFF".

Ps 119:105 ¶ NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

No, no, you must stay out of either of those two ditches, all muddy in the bottom, and so He gave a light so we could stay on the path and not get stuck in the "STUFF".

Ps 119:105 ¶ NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I will always go to the side of Truth. You may call it a ditch. But it's paradise to me. I may be unpopular for going there. But there I will go. I can do no other.

[Gibs]

His Word is Truth,

Ps 119:105 ¶ NUN. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

We can't do away with them and He won't ever, and never.

2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

He walked it before us showing us it could be done taking on Himself no power but we too can have to walk it also.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Jesus was a LIberal. ANd I am proud to stick up for Jesus the SOP and liberalism.

You mean a Progressive? And I always thought you were a Republican.

So that should tell you, it does me, that all that are republicans are not all conservatives.