Conservatism VS Legalism VS Liberalism

[phkrause]

Hey come on you guys, don't you think the winners will be those few who are neither legalists or liberalists.

Or conservative? Yes I do Gibs.

[skyblue888]

There was given to Mrs. White in the earliest days of the Advent Movement a vision which showed the true picture of the history of the true church from that day clear through to the Kingdom of God, to the gates of the Holy City.

It is found in Early Writings, p.14.

It reads as follows:

"While I was praying at the family altar, the Holy Spirit fell upon me, and I seemed to be rising higher and higher, far above the dark world. I turned to look for the advent people in the world, but could not find them--when a voice said to me, 'Look again, and look a little higher.' At this I raised my eyes and saw a straight and narrow path, cast up high above the world. On this path the advent people were traveling to the City, which was at the farther end of the path.

They had a bright light set up behind them at the first end of the path, which an angel told me was the midnight cry. This light shone all along the path, and gave light for their feet so they might not stumble.

And if they kept their eyes fixed on Jesus, who was just before them, leading them to the City, they were safe. But soon some grew weary, and they said the City was a great way off, and they expected to have entered it before. Then Jesus would encourage them by raising His glorious right arm, and from His arm came a glorious light which waved over the advent band, and they shouted, Halleluia!

NO INTERMEDIATE POSITION

Here indeed is a clean-cut picture of the travels of the people of God to the Kingdom. The details of this vision are well worth noticing. The faithful few are shown on a path described as being a straight and narrow one cast up high above the earth. Those who get off the path fall down into the wicked world below. There is no intermediate position.

At the beginning of the path there is a bright light which sends a beam of light clear along that path to the gate of the City at the far end. The picture is that the light shines only on the pathway, therefore it must be a narrow beam of light, as narrow and as straight as the path.

The light is the light of the Midnight Cry, and the Midnight Cry was the message that gave power to the second angel's message. See Early Writings, p.238. More than this, it shone on with the accumulated light of the first and second angel's messages to bring the light of the third angel's message as well.

Now there is the whole point of the vision. That light shines along that pathway and those who are on the pathway are in that light. Conversely those who are in that light are on that pathway and those who are on that pathway are the people of God who would go right through to the Kingdom. The others fall off the pathway and therefore out of that light and find themselves forever with the dark and wicked world below. To get off the pathway is to get out of that light, and to get out of that light is but to get off the pathway. But the people of God stayed in that light and on that pathway and those who stayed made it to the Kingdom.

Others rashly denied the light behind them, and said that it was not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them went out, leaving their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and fell off the path down into the wicked world below. It was as impossible for them (those that gave up their faith in the '44 movement) to get on the path again and go to the City, as all the wicked world which God had rejected. They fell all the way along the path one after another." *brackets mine

Therefore the whole question as to who are the people of God at the present time is not a question as to who bears a certain name, or who as the result of the faithfulness of their forefathers can claim physical descent from them.

The only question to be asked is, Who is on that pathway, standing in that light? That is the only question. And it would not matter what the proportionate numbers in each case were. If the whole of the professed church of God had stepped off the path, and out of that light and only one person remained in that light on that path, then that person alone would constitute the church of God and the people of God upon the earth today. Thank God it is not so. God's cause and God's church has never, and will never drop to only one person even though Elijah thought that it had in his day. There will always be a faithful few in this sin cursed earth.

But that faithful few can not always be found by looking for a people with a certain name, or by looking for a certain church organization. There is but the one question. Are they in that light and on that path? If so, then you can begin to apply the statements that are in the Bible and in the Spirit of Prophecy. Then you have found the people who are going through to the end triumphant, though they will be shaken and sifted along the way, and many individuals will fall off the path and into the dark and wicked world below. Then you have found the band which, as the church of God, is the one of whom it is written that if anyone comes calling it Babylon, you are to receive him not, for the Lord certainly has not sent him!

sky

[ClubV12]

Like those who gave up the faith in 1844 and never found their way back, those who have left the Seventh-day Adventist church and declared it to be in apostasy will never find their way back. This delusion is so powerful, the humility required to acknowledge their mistake so difficult to overcome, recovery is all but impossible.

"The message to pronounce the Seventh-day Adventist Church Babylon, and call the people of God out of her, does not come from any heavenly messenger, or any human agent inspired by the Spirit of God."

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 5.1

"Jesus is coming in to give the individual members of the church the richest blessings, if they will open the door to Him. He does not once call them Babylon, nor ask them to come out. But He says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten" (with messages of reproof and warning) (Rev. 3:19).

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 6

"Again I say, The Lord hath not spoken by any messenger who calls the church that keeps the commandments of God, Babylon. True, there are tares with the wheat; but Christ said He would send His angels to first gather the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into the garner."

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 6

"I warn the Seventh-day Adventist Church to be careful how you receive every new notion and those who claim to have great light. The character of their work seems to be to accuse and to tear down. . . ."

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 7

Sadly, we see much of this kind of work on this forum. Those who are attempting to tear down, accuse and scatter the people of Gods church, the Seventh-day Adventist church. Be careful how you receive these people.

[Woody]

Quote:

Be careful how you receive these people.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

We need to take in some of her last statements as at the end of her life she became very alarmed of the condition of things after 1901. Here is one of EGW's later statements,

"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced.

The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. {1SM 204.2}

Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? {1SM 205.1}

I hesitated and delayed about the sending out of that which the Spirit of the Lord impelled me to write. I did not want to be compelled to present the misleading influence of these sophistries. But in the providence of God, the errors that have been coming in must be met." {1SM 205.2}

Yes I ask the same question she does, "who has authority to begin such a movement"?

The day is coming again when the "keepers" will shake again because of their slothfulness in keeping out the errors that have come in.

Eze 44:8 And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves

Mt 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

A solemn responsiblity rests on the ones that fasten people in error. Satan knows best where to enter to destroy and he did, at the top!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

"...the errors that have been coming in must be met."

Many of us are meeting those errors, by upholding the authority of the Church and proclaiming what the angel said. "Press together, press together". Meeting these false doctrines that proclaim the Church is Babylon, the attempts to scatter God's people.

[Windsor]

Like those who gave up the faith in 1844 and never found their way back, those who have left the Seventh-day Adventist church and declared it to be in apostasy will never find their way back. This delusion is so powerful, the humility required to acknowledge their mistake so difficult to overcome, recovery is all but impossible.

"The message to pronounce the Seventh-day Adventist Church Babylon, and call the people of God out of her, does not come from any heavenly messenger, or any human agent inspired by the Spirit of God."

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 5.1

"Jesus is coming in to give the individual members of the church the richest blessings, if they will open the door to Him. He does not once call them Babylon, nor ask them to come out. But He says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten" (with messages of reproof and warning) (Rev. 3:19).

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 6

"Again I say, The Lord hath not spoken by any messenger who calls the church that keeps the commandments of God, Babylon. True, there are tares with the wheat; but Christ said He would send His angels to first gather the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into the garner."

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 6

"I warn the Seventh-day Adventist Church to be careful how you receive every new notion and those who claim to have great light. The character of their work seems to be to accuse and to tear down. . . ."

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 7

Sadly, we see much of this kind of work on this forum. Those who are attempting to tear down, accuse and scatter the people of Gods church, the Seventh-day Adventist church. Be careful how you receive these people.

When I see those quotes and see how they are just as fresh then as they are now, Ecclesiastes 1:9 comes to mind: The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

[Gibs]

But ClubV12, meeting them and upholding them isn't what she indicated must be done. In doing that you are part of what's the matter. Stand up and be counted for the truth and stand strong and solid for the truth of all things.

We must make no compromise with all the errors that have come in and shouldn't have allowed them to in the first place, Now it has become the foundation of the atructure, not church as it can not be His where error is being forced home. You and some others are ok-ing it and that is not what you should do.

All I tell you will be held accountable for the witness you should have done.

Yes there is no new thing under the sun as the Church Jesus Christ set up went into apostasy it has happened again and again with all that purported to be a reform movement. Even though the SDA church never got to full reform. It no doubt would have stood a little longer had it reached full reform. But men don't want reform, they want to continue the wallow in the same old things and teachings of men and the world held in higher esteem than the Word of God.

The Remnant Church will triumph, but it is the Elllesia, the called out ones and don't forget that. It don't have any man's names on it. It cinched it when the structure of SDA's went and got instituted as an worldly CORPORATION.

To continue to have been His Church, a Remnant piece of the first, all it needed to have done was continue in continued reform and continuing the called out ones.

It is not called out! If it were it would be derided by the world far more than just the fact of advocating of keeping Sabbath. No the SDA structure has changed to want to be loved of the world. Don't you know the world loves it's own. Just as Satsn loves his own.

The true ones and Church will be hated by the world and evil men as in the days of martyrdom and that day is coming around again.

Question is, Whose side will you fall into cahoots with?

"Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth?" {1SM 205.1}

Here is where we are to go, not to men to be led astry,

"God has provided abundant means for successful warfare with principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places; for "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." The Bible is the armory where we may equip for the struggle. Our loins must be girt about with truth. Our breastplate must be righteousness. The shield of faith must be in our hands, the helmet of salvation shine on our brows, and the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God, be wielded to cut our way through the ranks of our bitter foes. We must be ready, at the command of our Captain to follow where he may lead. We must be doers of his word, not deceiving our own selves". {RH, January 10, 1888 par. 8}

The Remnant Follow Him and it's not Conservatism, Legalism or Liberalism. His Word, His Word, Not Men, Not Men!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Brother Gib's in kindness I must say the following.

You and several others on this board are the very persons Sister White is speaking of when she says:

"Jesus is coming in to give the individual members of the church the richest blessings, if they will open the door to Him. He does not once call them Babylon, nor ask them to come out. But He says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten" (with messages of reproof and warning) (Rev. 3:19).

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 6

"Again I say, The Lord hath not spoken by any messenger who calls the church that keeps the commandments of God, Babylon. True, there are tares with the wheat; but Christ said He would send His angels to first gather the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into the garner."

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 6

"I warn the Seventh-day Adventist Church to be careful how you receive every new notion and those who claim to have great light. The character of their work seems to be to accuse and to tear down. . . ."

The Remnant Church: Its Organization, Authority, Unity, and Triumph, 7

I am standing for the truth, but you Sir, have left the truth and chartered your own course. As have others on this board. Removing yourself from the body of believers, denying your membership in the Seventh-day Adventist church, setting up your own individual house of worship then calling others to leave is not the work of the Holy Spirit.

I was in jail once, I learned in there that I was the very person my Mother had warned me about. I had to accept the reality that my choices had put me there, I had to acknowledge the circumstances that I alone was the cause. I had to accept responsibility.

Sadly, it is all but impossible for those who have left the church and in turn call others to leave for them to understand they are in fact the very people Sister White warned us about. For those who have had such great light, and then rejected it, the delusion is very deep. There are many who profess to be Seventh-day Adventists doing Gods work, but the evidence soon becomes clear. Those who have left the church and then "fight against it" are not of the body, cannot be part of the body. THIS is the harsh reality.

Worth repeating:

"I warn the Seventh-day Adventist Church to be careful how you receive every new notion and those who claim to have great light."

I am taking THAT counsel seriously, as should every member of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

I can see you refuse to see that too much apostasy has come in and you are in the majority. She the structure is still holding to the Sabbath truth is all that keeps it from being catagorized "babylon". If she didn't keep the admonition for Sabbath how much difference on the important issue do you see.

"The important issue" you say, yes, Salvation, "just believe and you are saved."

I do battle of this issue on several forums and none are SDA's and I find there is no difference from these folks than the SDA's of Adventism of today. Yes there is a very few and some are on this site and do witness, thank God.

Notice from this statement of EGW it is before 1888 and so this belief was alive and well along with legaism,

" Believe, believe, believe in Jesus, is the soothing lullaby that is lulling the world to sleep in the cradle of carnal security. Why, the devils believe and tremble. We need to be alarmed. We need to sound the cry, "Depart from all iniquity." When you bring Jesus into your daily life and character, you will not make your feelings the criterion of your religion; you will exalt him in the darkest hour; you will seek to point those around you to the cleansing fountain. You will not cry, "Away with God's commandments; I do not want to hear about them;" but with your Saviour you will "magnify the law and make it honorable." {ST, November 24, 1887 par. 13}

We are in the perils of the last days, and Jesus has bidden us beware of false teachers. You are to know them by their fruits. Do they teach obedience to God, and yet break his plain words of command? God has given us reasoning faculties, and he wants us to use them. We are to "prove all things; hold fast that which is good." He has given us the revelation of his will, and we shall be without excuse if we do not study the Sacred Word. Hear what the voice of the true Shepherd says to you, and walk in the path of obedience and love. "This do," said Jesus, "and thou shalt live." We cannot afford to lose eternal life. May God grant that we may meet you around the throne of God, to sing with you the song of redemption in the kingdom of glory."

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

Babylon the Great takes in almost all the world today, very very few that haven't been beguiled into her ranks.

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

The Remnant in this case is a pure little piece of the original. It's the same as the first. Where do you find them?

You find them, one here and there in all denominational church structures discenting the errors.

It is the few Jesus said, and is not any big denominational structure by men. His Few are led of Him and Him only do they hear, as they know HIS voice, the truth.

Am I or anyone saved by a church structure of the world today? More than anyting it could be your losing your soul.

The book your name needs to be in and not blotted out is the Book of Life.

I am in HIS CHURCH, Ekklesia, and I witness for it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Worth repeating:

"I warn the Seventh-day Adventist Church to be careful how you receive every new notion and those who claim to have great light."

I am taking THAT counsel seriously, as should every member of the Seventh-day Adventist church.

You bring up some good points from the prophet of our church.

[olger]

Conservative good.

Legalist bad.

[Woody]

Let's all be liberal with each other as God is to us.

[olger]

[Gibs]

That is exactly what I am witnessing against, this THEOLOGY that has come in and all the "EXERCISES", EMERGING, NLP, and more, it's a long list if I could bring them all to mind.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

It's legalism/conservatism that our prophet so loudly speaks out against.

[Woody]

Quote:

"The work which the church has failed to do in a time of peace and prosperity she will have to do in a terrible crisis under most discouraging, forbidding circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the superficial, conservative class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith."--5T 463

It's the conservatives who will retard the progress of the church.

[Gibs]

Woody,

You forgot that she really hits liberalism I think the hardest. What I find EGW stands up for is that delicate balance between legalism and liberaism, that narrow path Jesus says so few will find and then take it is the next thing.

Our short time here is when we have to get it right. Let's all find that "strait" gate that Jesus says few will find.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[olger]

Yes, liberalism (worldliness) doesn't get very high marks either.

[ClubV12]

So, Brother Gibs, if I said to you, "We need to press together and come into harmony with the counsel of the brethren. We need to actively support the Seventh-day Adventist Church. In spite of their flaws, in spite of the appearance the Church will fall."

Would that be legalism, liberalism or conservatism?

[Woody]

Quote:

Our short time here is when we have to get it right.

Our prophet says that we have all of eternity to get it right.

[Gordon1]

So, Brother Gibs, if I said to you, "We need to press together and come into harmony with the counsel of the brethren. We need to actively support the Seventh-day Adventist Church. In spite of their flaws, in spite of the appearance the Church will fall."

Would that be legalism, liberalism or conservatism?

That's the Spirit of the Papacy - We are infallible.

Used by the Methodists to eject the White family & used by the rabbis to crucify Christ.

[Gibs]

Gordon1,

I would just have to tell you I can't and will not press together with the errors and practices that have come in. It has come too close now of being back in "MOMMA".

There is no mix and harmony in truth and error nor is it the Spirit of Prophecy, it condemns it, strongly and solidly.

The only one infallible one is our God and Saviour.

Ekklesia, come outers, His Church, my choice, there is harmony and the Spirit rules as it is it's Head.

"Babylon The Great" now takes in practically all the world, most all have been deceived and beguiled. Most have gotten off the narrow way!

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Those who claim we should leave the Adventist Church, remove our membership, come out are the people Sister White has warned us against. In short, they are off shoots, fanatics.

What they fail to realize is that it IS possible to be separate and yet remain a part of the body. There are many people who have done this and are doing it. Gib's, and many others, would have each of us start our own "home church" and remove our membership, tithes and support from the organized Adventist Church. This is NOT the counsel of Ellen White in any regard at any point in her Ministry. It IS possible to be a member of and support the Adventist Church and STILL uphold the highest principles of the blue print the Lords Messenger has outlined for these end times. Those who abandon the Church deny the power of God to work in their lives.

If you don't like what your local Adventist Church may be sponsoring on Tuesday or Thursday or Saturday night, don't go. Simple. If you don't care for "game night", don't go. If you don't support a Church Sports program, don't get involved. Create your own program for your kids, for your community. But DO go to Church, your local Church, on Sabbath. DO be involved by showing your love. DO support that official Church. START your own Adventist Church if you need to and can, ACCEPT the Conference appointed Pastor for that Church.

In other words, don't be a coward and run and hide. Move your family to the country, have a home school, if your SO serious about following the Counsel, then follow it by pressing together, not scattering the body of believers. It is the work of angels to separate the wheat from the chaff, it is not YOUR work, Gib's.

[Naomi]

Quote:

It IS possible to be a member of and support the Adventist Church and STILL uphold the highest principles of the blue print the Lords Messenger has outlined for these end times. Those who abandon the Church deny the power of God to work in their lives.