Question about suicide

[OzarkWoman]

If a person has asked for forgiveness for all of their sins and repented, but hasn't gotten baptized, would they still have a chance to be with Jesus if they commit suicide because things just got too hard for them? What about if they got baptized?

[Gibs]

If a person who was baptised or not and had come and truly repented and was forgiven and then went forth and commited suicide, they commited a sin, they killed and they killed themselve and I suppose then they are held guilty of that sin. They are not able then to repent of it and receive forgiveness. Unless you can find it is not unlawful to kill yourself.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Again - God judges us by our hearts and not our actions. The fact that we did something that we were out of control of does not matter. For God knows our hearts and whether we WOULD have asked forgiveness for something IF forgiveness was required.

[ClubV12]

The question of Baptism is irrelevant to the question of suicide. Being a member of a Church, any Church, does not gaurentee salvation. Nor does being baptized, or ordained or any other thing. Salvation is a very personal issue between you and God.

Having said that, there IS a place, a necessary place for baptism, Church membership and in some cases ordination. Depending on the circumstances, it is a necessary step for folks to take at some point in their walk with Christ.

For those contemplating suicide, such questions are are meaningless, they are merely a distraction. The thief on the cross was going to die in hours, perhaps days. The point is, baptism, Church membership and any other issues were meaningless to him considering his time and place. Imminent and soon, death.

I cannot, the bible cannot, the Church cannot condone suicide, period. To ask somebody to condone it is a sin in itself! You place others in a terrible position by asking that, you ask them to violate their very conscience. You know the answer, what you decide to do must be between you and God alone. I will not condone it, nor will I condem those who choose that path. God help us all, He is willing, but we must CHOOSE to accept His help. We must choose to accept life.

[Kevin H]

While we cannot condone suicide, God knows the heart and the pain that people are going through. While often suicide can come from contempt for the world around us, sometimes the person may not know better and is doing the best with what they know and the pain they feel. We need to teach others how to love the world as Jesus has loved it, and remember the truth about hell fire, it is the glory and beauty of seeing God in person, where some will run into his arms with joy and others pull away. God does not push anyone away just because they died from suicide.

God will take care of the other side of the grave, our job is to work with this side of the grave. If you are worried about someone go a head and ask them if they have thought of suicide. Work with them, get them the help needed.

[phkrause]

Excellent points Kevin.

[cricket]

Woody and Kevin make excellent points.

As for what is and isn't important to those who are contemplating suicide, it would be ridiculous to even attempt to guess--each of us are unique individuals who experience life differently, and for some, the question of baptism and/or church membership may have great importance.

[OzarkWoman]

The question of Baptism is irrelevant to the question of suicide. Being a member of a Church, any Church, does not gaurentee salvation. Nor does being baptized, or ordained or any other thing. Salvation is a very personal issue between you and God.

Having said that, there IS a place, a necessary place for baptism, Church membership and in some cases ordination. Depending on the circumstances, it is a necessary step for folks to take at some point in their walk with Christ.

For those contemplating suicide, such questions are are meaningless, they are merely a distraction. The thief on the cross was going to die in hours, perhaps days. The point is, baptism, Church membership and any other issues were meaningless to him considering his time and place. Imminent and soon, death.

I cannot, the bible cannot, the Church cannot condone suicide, period. To ask somebody to condone it is a sin in itself! You place others in a terrible position by asking that, you ask them to violate their very conscience. You know the answer, what you decide to do must be between you and God alone. I will not condone it, nor will I condem those who choose that path. God help us all, He is willing, but we must CHOOSE to accept His help. We must choose to accept life.

Sorry I asked. You have no idea how hard it was for me to even ask the question. Life is just too hard these days.

[John317]

What do you think? Should she have done it or not?

Quote:

There's an old saying that artists have to suffer, but after six years of paralysis, Christina Symanski decided she had suffered enough.

Symanski, 31, broke her neck diving into a shallow swimming pool in June, 2005.

An artist and teacher in East Brunswick, N.J., Symanski was rescued by her boyfriend of six months, professional musician Jimmy Morganti, who, at the time of the accident, was planning to move in with her.

The accident left Symanski a quadriplegic. She continued to do her art, but last fall, she made a decision to starve herself to death.

"I have come to a point in my own life where I’m struggling with the question, ‘Is this life worth living for ME, or am I just prolonging my own suffering?’" is how she explained it on her blog, Life Paralyzed.

Once she decided to end her life, Symanski researched right-to-die laws, and even considered moving to Oregon which allows some physician-assisted suicide, according to the New Jersey Star-Ledger.

She also began communicating with Jeanne Kerwin, the coordinator for Ethics and Palliative Care Services at Overlook Medical Center in Summit, who gave her tips about palliative care and how she could end her suffering.

Some of Kerwin's suggestions included having two psychological evaluations as well as consultations with lawyers and physicians.

"She did everything she could so that the responsibility for whatever happened was hers alone," Kerwin told the Star-Ledger.

But not everyone agreed with Symanski's decision, especially her aunt, Mary Ellen Symanski, the head of the nursing department at Alvernia University in Reading, Pa.

"I was not thrilled with the information she was receiving," said Symanski who privately tried to convince her niece not to end her life.

But once Symanski decided to die by diet, things moved quickly and she passed away on December 1.

Among her last wishes was to have her cremated ashes mixed with fireworks and then skyrocketed over the New Jersey-Pennsylvania border this Independence Day.

"I don’t know whether I can do that legally," said her mother, Louise Ruoff. "But I’ll try."

[Dr. Rich]

If a person has asked for forgiveness for all of their sins and repented, but hasn't gotten baptized, would they still have a chance to be with Jesus if they commit suicide because things just got too hard for them? What about if they got baptized?

The answer is above my pay grade!

[Dr. Rich]

The question of Baptism is irrelevant to the question of suicide. Being a member of a Church, any Church, does not gaurentee salvation. Nor does being baptized, or ordained or any other thing. Salvation is a very personal issue between you and God.

Having said that, there IS a place, a necessary place for baptism, Church membership and in some cases ordination. Depending on the circumstances, it is a necessary step for folks to take at some point in their walk with Christ.

For those contemplating suicide, such questions are are meaningless, they are merely a distraction. The thief on the cross was going to die in hours, perhaps days. The point is, baptism, Church membership and any other issues were meaningless to him considering his time and place. Imminent and soon, death.

I cannot, the bible cannot, the Church cannot condone suicide, period. To ask somebody to condone it is a sin in itself! You place others in a terrible position by asking that, you ask them to violate their very conscience. You know the answer, what you decide to do must be between you and God alone. I will not condone it, nor will I condem those who choose that path. God help us all, He is willing, but we must CHOOSE to accept His help. We must choose to accept life.

Wow Club, what a wonderful reply! A year ago my son attempted this with drugs, but failed because of nothing short of a mirrical. I had all of you pray for him and today he is 100% clean and has been the guest speaker for AA and now works for them and is a totally NEW person! At the time he just couldn't see thru the mist--but if he could have seen the new person he is today, to me, only God can do something like that for someone! So this question is a really hard one to answer--but one thing I know for sure, PRAYER is always the right answer!

[cricket]

OzarkWoman, I do pray that you will feel better tonight. Also, I encourage you to seek out help from professionals. There is no need to go through your pain all alone. There are good, kind people out there in this world who are willing to help.

May God's blessings be with you tonight.

[OzarkWoman]

OzarkWoman, I do pray that you will feel better tonight. Also, I encourage you to seek out help from professionals. There is no need to go through your pain all alone. There are good, kind people out there in this world who are willing to help.

May God's blessings be with you tonight.

Thank you but don't trust anyone, save for the pastor and his wife but they are out of town. It just seems like too much too fast has been heaped on me and just not sure that I can keep it up.

[ClubV12]

Christina Symanski, would it have been "OK" or more "acceptable" if she was baptized first?

[OzarkWoman]

I don't know what has become of me, some unknown abyss, some dark, eternal void consuming all that is inside far as the eye can see and the horror of loneliness, something so hard to avoid, especially when the spirit has died, embracing, intertwining, fusing into my mind. Oh God, the cold, numbing everything as shadows are entering my helpless soul. Eventually darkness fills to the top and the pain of emptiness never seems to stop, as not even the comfort of tears, of chaos, hate or fear are welcomed within. No, nothing at all and it's slowly transforming me into absolutely nothing. God, please of all the times I've needed you, I need you most now. Heal me, place me inside your good graces. I am nowhere near perfect and I am ever so sorry for my sins, but please heal me within. Please put back together piece by piece my shattered soul. Let me feel, let me be someone worthwhile again. Banish this emptiness and loneliness away forever. Let me and happiness be together, otherwise everything will soon die within me; the light and hope gone because of me. Please make me someone, something! Save me from this doom, this fate that I hate, destroying me so soon. Let me feel peace again. I don't know how much more I can take of this pain and nothingness before I take the easy way out. I am the sin. I am what you see, a monster in your stare. A nightmare I am. Fear me, for I am the damned. I pray, just please send me away. Is there an end to this life? Is there ever a more bloody knife? I am a slave to desperation, being God's failed creation. Just destroy me, crush me like those flightless birds. Cut me with the sharpest knife, and draw blood from my sinful life. Never dwell on my death, never watch me draw my last breath. It's time the world let me go. Every tear drop has a meaning. Mine have many meanings, 1st-you don't get it, 2nd-I'm alone, 3rd-a knife, 4-suicide, last I'm gone. Angel of mine, lend me your wings because I am done with the tune they all wish me to sing.

[cheddar]

Samson committed suicide and he's listed among the faithful in Hebrews.

Death comes for all of us eventually and it's never good or noble.

If I didn't know better - most of the responses to this question sound like they belong on a catholic forum - that's sad!

[jasd]

Ahh, it’s you, Ozark Woman. I’d thought you spoke of an acquaintance.

Per your words: stunningly, stunningly beautiful. You haven’t any idea the greatness of your gift? Surely, you must. Don’t you dare!—sever that gift from those of us who’ve never been able to explore and experience such range of the soul.

I’ve pleaded with Gd to let me feel as do others, but alas, I’m to end my threescore and ten – clinically, only experiencing the range of the human psyche through its expression by others.

Don’t you dare. Difficult times are descending upon all of us, and you have an intimate knowledge of emotions and language to truly share and uplift others.

Write, d-mn it. Pour yourself into your words. Yours is a great and special blessing. Don’t toss it. Value it, as it is too very rare.

[Overaged]

I have known people who committed suicide. To me; this is a matter between those people and God and I have no right and no way to sit in judgment on someone who does this. I certainly would not advocate suicide to anyone, I am just saying that only God knows the heart, and what to do with his children who take their own lives.

"Salvation is of the Lord..."

[Overaged]

Is there an end to this life? Is there ever a more bloody knife? I am a slave to desperation, being God's failed creation. Just destroy me, crush me like those flightless birds. Cut me with the sharpest knife, and draw blood from my sinful life. Never dwell on my death, never watch me draw my last breath. It's time the world let me go. Every tear drop has a meaning. Mine have many meanings, 1st-you don't get it, 2nd-I'm alone, 3rd-a knife, 4-suicide, last I'm gone. Angel of mine, lend me your wings because I am done with the tune they all wish me to sing.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I don't know what has become of me, some unknown abyss, some dark, eternal void consuming all that is inside far as the eye can see and the horror of loneliness, something so hard to avoid, especially when the spirit has died, embracing, intertwining, fusing into my mind. Oh God, the cold, numbing everything as shadows are entering my helpless soul. Eventually darkness fills to the top and the pain of emptiness never seems to stop, as not even the comfort of tears, of chaos, hate or fear are welcomed within. No, nothing at all and it's slowly transforming me into absolutely nothing. God, please of all the times I've needed you, I need you most now. Heal me, place me inside your good graces. I am nowhere near perfect and I am ever so sorry for my sins, but please heal me within. Please put back together piece by piece my shattered soul. Let me feel, let me be someone worthwhile again. Banish this emptiness and loneliness away forever. Let me and happiness be together, otherwise everything will soon die within me; the light and hope gone because of me. Please make me someone, something! Save me from this doom, this fate that I hate, destroying me so soon. Let me feel peace again. I don't know how much more I can take of this pain and nothingness before I take the easy way out. I am the sin. I am what you see, a monster in your stare. A nightmare I am. Fear me, for I am the damned. I pray, just please send me away. Is there an end to this life? Is there ever a more bloody knife? I am a slave to desperation, being God's failed creation. Just destroy me, crush me like those flightless birds. Cut me with the sharpest knife, and draw blood from my sinful life. Never dwell on my death, never watch me draw my last breath. It's time the world let me go. Every tear drop has a meaning. Mine have many meanings, 1st-you don't get it, 2nd-I'm alone, 3rd-a knife, 4-suicide, last I'm gone. Angel of mine, lend me your wings because I am done with the tune they all wish me to sing.

"The Monster." Right?

OzarkWoman, take it from someone who has tried it, will try it again, and will eventually succeed: If you have someone who cares, it is worth the fight to stay alive.

[Stan]

If a person has asked for forgiveness for all of their sins and repented, but hasn't gotten baptized, would they still have a chance to be with Jesus if they commit suicide because things just got too hard for them? What about if they got baptized?

It is so important not to make a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

[Gibs]

OzarkWoman,

Perhaps the devil is trying to "sift" you as Jesus told Peter but no doubt in a different way. You tell him to get behind you that you are taking Jesus Hand that He has outstretched and your heart and soul are his until you die from whatever cause may befall and that he can not beguile you into doing it before it's time naturally comes.

Lu 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Ro 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

I pray now, That He will give you peace. May you be blessed.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[OzarkWoman]

Ahh, it’s you, Ozark Woman. I’d thought you spoke of an acquaintance.

Per your words: stunningly, stunningly beautiful. You haven’t any idea the greatness of your gift? Surely, you must. Don’t you dare!—sever that gift from those of us who’ve never been able to explore and experience such range of the soul.

I’ve pleaded with Gd to let me feel as do others, but alas, I’m to end my threescore and ten – clinically, only experiencing the range of the human psyche through its expression by others.

Don’t you dare. Difficult times are descending upon all of us, and you have an intimate knowledge of emotions and language to truly share and uplift others.

Write, d-mn it. Pour yourself into your words. Yours is a great and special blessing. Don’t toss it. Value it, as it is too very rare.

Thank you so very much for your kind words. I have never been able to express myself well so I have always written everything down. I don't know if you have ever heard the song by Simon and Garfunkel called "I Am A Rock", but it is my favorite all time song because it has always said what I felt. This is something I wrote a couple days ago.

My life is stopping because of this fight inside of me.

I am war with myself and I am losing.

Sometimes I just wish I could run away and hide.

No matter where I go though, these feelings stay inside.

How can I stay here and live each day a lie, when all I want to do is close my eyes and die?

I see the pain I cause you with every tear I shed.

Can I ask for your forgiveness, for you to set me free?

It may seem ungrateful, but this life's not meant for me.

Thank you for all your love, for all the time we shared.

It means the world to me to know that someone cared.

It calls me closer, it calls me near, “Just once and it'll be over.”

Death whispers in my ear, irresistible is its sweet entice.

No peace in my mind, no peace in my head, the intelligent me long since fled.

Anger and rage consumes me, my mind's demons bursting to be free.

The walls of my cage finally cave, “Just be still, just be brave.”

I know I have sinned, still I pray to God, “Please get me out of this Hell”, I start to yell...

No sound out of my mouth, only in my mind.

No one to help me, no one for me to find; I've never felt so scared;

My soul finally screamed and despaired, “I give up!”

[OzarkWoman]

I love this song by Jason Gray called "Remind Me Of Who I Am".

This link takes you to the lyrics but the video is at the bottom of the page and it is so moving and says so much to me these days.

http://www.onlylyrics.com/jason-gray-lyrics-1067340.php

[Kevin H]

The Bible divided life into 3 parts, life, sheol, and the life to come. Paul puts it as the grain, the grain put into the ground, and the newness of life that comes out in the new plant. He also compares it to living in a tent, being naked, and living in the palace that God is giving us. (this is the context of being absent from the body and being pressent with the Lord). Paul points out that while we do have difficulties in this tent that is wearing out and would rather be absent from this body and in our new body pressent with the Lord, he does not wish us to be naked. In other words he does not wish us to be dead.

The Bible is consistent with this. The best place to be is the resurected body that the Lord is going to give us, but no matter how bad the problems are, the second best place is to be in this body with all it's problems. No matter how bad things are going the Bible says that it is better than death. The Psalms are full of prase from deleverance from Sheol. The only time Sheol is spoken about positively in the Bible is once someone has lived a long full life then they are resting until the resurection.

Let's follow the Bible and look forward to the resurection but enjoy life in this tent as long as we can and avoid sheol. There are programs out there to help you. If you are military or veteran there is the Veterans hotline Call 1-800-273-8255 and Press 1 as well as the military one source http://www.militaryonesource.mil/ . The Billy Graham org. has a program at www.billygraham.org/HelpForDepression and the national suicide lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK (8255).