Question about suicide

[Kevin H]

A note about depression: There are biochemical events going on in depression just as in heart attacks or stomach ulcers or any other illness or injury. The point is that depression is treatable. It is not something that you can snap out of no more than you can snap out of a broken leg. Now too often the medical care is overly focused on medications. And hey this is better than no care at all.

Depression is a normal part of life, it is designed to let us know that there may be something to work on, second to drain us of energy to decrease the chance of us doing something regretable such as saying to someone words we would regret,do someting to someone we would spend the rest of our lifes regretting, or harming ourselves. Third as a way to reach out to others for them to spend more time with us.

But sometimes this gets out of range. Sometimes the biochemicals for us feeling bad happen to be produced even when there is not an event. Sometimes the slowing down get to where we either stay down there even when the crisis is over. Or we end up doing the things that the energy drain decreases (does not eliminate) the chances of happening (this is also a danger of antidepressient medications), and there are some people who's relationships with others are built on a foudation of the depression.

Use what ever is out there right now for the immediate help. However my personal suggestion is to at least eventually work on programs that miminalizes the medications. Three such programs would be like what you can learn from the William Glasser Institute: http://www.wglasser.com/ The ideas of Dr. David Burns in his books "Feeling Good" and "The Feeling Good Handbook" and Dr. Ned Nedley (a Seventh-day Adventist) has a fantastic book and a fantastic DVD program and workbook http://www.drnedley.com/nedley-depression-recovery-program-dvd-and-workbook-series.html Dr. Nedly uses Dr. Burn's information, and Dr. Burns and Dr. Glasser have a mutual respect for each other and Dr. Burns wrote a forward in one of Dr. Glasser's books and they dovetail nicely.

First I recommend get the immediate care that you need. Then I recommend contacting either the William Gasser Institute or (I could not find a website only the books for Dr. Burns) but the Glasser institute can get you in touch with counselors familiar with choice theory and who will not depend on medications.

Once again, we are in this tent and have both joys and sorrows, but not matter how bad things get the Bible teaches us to avoid sheol as long as possible. Depression is a treatable disease. The two main ways are medications or programs like Dr. Gasser's Choice Theory, Dr. Burns "Feeling Good" and "Feeling Good Handbook" and Dr. Nedly's work.

You do not have to live with the pain, and you can still live.

[OzarkWoman]

While I do appreciate your posts Kevin, this is not a normal depression. This is grief because I lost my husband a few months ago.

[Gail]

Many hugs to you!!!

(((((( Ozarkwoman ))))))

Thank you for sharing- you have friends here! Sometimes there are just no words, but you have friends here who are just... here.

One day at a time...

I'm thankful for your pastor and his wife!

[Kevin H]

No problem. There are grief programs out there. Again we want to avoid sheol as much as we can. Live with his memory, enjoy his memory and look forward to the resurection. And the above sites, or your local hospital or churches should have grief programs

[Kevin H]

Amem Gail. OzarkWoman, we care and love you

[OzarkWoman]

Feeling so lost and all alone,

I want to bury all the memories

And leave no trace that you ever existed.

Maybe then I could sleep at night.

Maybe then my eyes will be free

From all the tears.

Don't want to have to drag this pain with me

Everywhere I go.

I want to be normal again.

But, everywhere I look is a reminder of you,

Of us, of everything we shared.

Why can't I let you go, let your spirit reign?

Why can't I smile in reminisce?

The scar is too deep

And the emptiness makes me cold.

I to feel like I have gone...

Into another world,

A world where happiness is an obstacle,

Laughter is a challenge

And complete is impossible.

If only I could go on without the thought of you.

Maybe then I'll feel what peace is like again.

[Overaged]

Many hugs to you!!!

(((((( Ozarkwoman ))))))

Thank you for sharing- you have friends here! Sometimes there are just no words, but you have friends here who are just... here.

One day at a time...

I'm thankful for your pastor and his wife!

Yes to everything Gail said!!! (((((( Ozarkwoman ))))))

[Overaged]

Feeling so lost and all alone,

I want to bury all the memories

And leave no trace that you ever existed.

Maybe then I could sleep at night.

Maybe then my eyes will be free

From all the tears.

Don't want to have to drag this pain with me

Everywhere I go.

I want to be normal again.

But, everywhere I look is a reminder of you,

Of us, of everything we shared.

Why can't I let you go, let your spirit reign?

Why can't I smile in reminisce?

The scar is too deep

And the emptiness makes me cold.

I to feel like I have gone...

Into another world,

A world where happiness is an obstacle,

Laughter is a challenge

And complete is impossible.

If only I could go on without the thought of you.

Maybe then I'll feel what peace is like again.

I would encourage you to write more poems. This is a great way to vent what is building up inside, and you are good at writing them! I think others here can relate to what you are going through - I know I can.

[OzarkWoman]

Thank you so much for your kind comments. I have written so much since my husband died that sometimes it seems that I can't quit. I will post more here if any would like, some I won't because they are just too deeply personal.

[Gail]

Thank you so much for your kind comments. I have written so much since my husband died that sometimes it seems that I can't quit. I will post more here if any would like, some I won't because they are just too deeply personal.

I encourage it! Please do! :)

[Woody]

Assisted Suicide is legal in my state and I think I would request it if there was no way out of my medical condition and I was just living in pain all the time.

[phkrause]

That is one beautiful poem OzarkWoman. As Adventists we have a hope that someday we will be reunited with our loved ones. My Mom, when my father died, was sad for a long time. Even today she still sometimes can't talk about him without crying. She has a close friend in the church she goes to that just lost her son, who was only around 50 yrs old to cancer. She had just lost her husband also a few yrs ago. She hardly comes to church because she has a hard time driving, she drys all the time. She tells us she still angry with God for allowing her son to die. So just know your not alone, there are many who are or who have gone through this with you. I don't believe your husband would want you to go down this road alone, so continue to pray and post here where your friends can console you if need be. From what I've read many are praying for and with you. Your in our prays.

[OzarkWoman]

TY

[Overaged]

Thank you so much for your kind comments. I have written so much since my husband died that sometimes it seems that I can't quit. I will post more here if any would like, some I won't because they are just too deeply personal.

yes, I understand about some being too personal; but I certainly encourage you to share anything you would be comfortable with.

I had a time when my life seemed totally hopeless, and I was thinking about suicide. I have written many things about my feelings during such times - there are one or two poems I have from then which I could share here with you, if you are interested. I found that by writing out my feelings and experiences; that it led me to a place where I no longer felt those things. I found that by reading from time to time what I wrote in the past, there were things in those writings that I saw a way to resolve and move on. In other words; it can be therapeutic.

Please, share what you feel comfortable with, anytime! We are glad to have you aboard!!

[Naomi]

OzarkWoman, your poem is very beautiful and speaks to my heart as I am sure it speaks to others.

Putting your pain and loss into words is very healing. Please continue.

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

Thank you so much for your kind comments. I have written so much since my husband died that sometimes it seems that I can't quit. I will post more here if any would like, some I won't because they are just too deeply personal.

yes, I understand about some being too personal; but I certainly encourage you to share anything you would be comfortable with.

I had a time when my life seemed totally hopeless, and I was thinking about suicide. I have written many things about my feelings during such times - there are one or two poems I have from then which I could share here with you, if you are interested. I found that by writing out my feelings and experiences; that it led me to a place where I no longer felt those things. I found that by reading from time to time what I wrote in the past, there were things in those writings that I saw a way to resolve and move on. In other words; it can be therapeutic.

Please, share what you feel comfortable with, anytime! We are glad to have you aboard!!

I would love to read some of your writings.

[OzarkWoman]

Just got done talking with my pastor and I do feel better now. All I have to do is keep feeling ok. lol

Walk along the edge,

Each step one step away

From demons there who wait,

And watch as I stray.

Black clouds do fill the sky,

Calculating the deep mire,

Coming so close, as I play with fire.

Each day brings me closer

To that final step that will pull me down

Into the deepest depths.

Walking along the edge,

As such adventure calls,

Now hearing warning voices,

As in terror I now fall.

Angels can't catch me,

Prayers fall upon deaf ears,

As the edge now rolls and crumbles,

Dampened from my falling tears.

[phkrause]

Just got done talking with my pastor and I do feel better now. All I have to do is keep feeling ok. lol

Walk along the edge,

Each step one step away

From demons there who wait,

And watch as I stray.

Black clouds do fill the sky,

Calculating the deep mire,

Coming so close, as I play with fire.

Each day brings me closer

To that final step that will pull me down

Into the deepest depths.

Walking along the edge,

As such adventure calls,

Now hearing warning voices,

As in terror I now fall.

Angels can't catch me,

Prayers fall upon deaf ears,

As the edge now rolls and crumbles,

Dampened from my falling tears.

and

[Overaged]

I would love to read some of your writings.

[Overaged]

And BTW; I think you would be someone who understands what I mean when I say that as I wrote the above poem; I kept listening over and over to that song by Simon & Garfunkle - "I Am A Rock."

I hope you have a great sabbath at Church; and that you experience God speaking to you personally. Please keep us posted how you are doing.

[Neil D]

Just got done talking with my pastor and I do feel better now. All I have to do is keep feeling ok. lol

Walk along the edge,

Each step one step away

From demons there who wait,

And watch as I stray.

Black clouds do fill the sky,

Calculating the deep mire,

Coming so close, as I play with fire.

Each day brings me closer

To that final step that will pull me down

Into the deepest depths.

Walking along the edge,

As such adventure calls,

Now hearing warning voices,

As in terror I now fall.

Angels can't catch me,

Prayers fall upon deaf ears,

As the edge now rolls and crumbles,

Dampened from my falling tears.

My God is so big, so strong and so mighty, there's nothing that my God can not do....Do you remember singing that song?

Well, it's true...My God is mighty to save...

First off, if we say that one who commits suicide is guilty of the sin of killing and therefore forfeits any rights to heaven, we neglect that God is love, and understands the whole situation of every person who has committed suicide. After all, every suicide that I am acquainted with is in actuality a cry for help. Do we say that the MVA person who uttered a prayer for help before his untimely car accident/death has forfeited all rights to heaven because he made a wrong turn or step on the accelerator rather than the brake? No, God looks at the trends of a person's life and the relationship. One who feels the depression also sees the darkness closing in upon him and cannot see thru Satan's lies many times and can only go on naked promises....And if we look at Christ's life, and his prophetic ministry where He claims that the "Son of man" was to die, could we not argue that even Jesus, knowing what He knew committed suicide and was raised on the 3rd day?

Which leads me into my next point...Those who attempt suicide are mainly concerned about themselves...What they forget that God loves them so very much, that He gave His son as an example for life, that is, to live life for others. Find the son/daughter/granddaughter/grandson and get involved with others. Find the homeless, the less fortunate, the weary, and give respite to those who are struggling. That is what Christ did....

What we also forget is that the God of Heaven struggles with us. It is we who do not know that all of heaven is out to help us with oour struggles with the devil. His Holy Spirit is striving with you, arguing and counter arguing the insinuations of the Devil. Friends and family come by to talk with us, along with aquaintainces who utter words of encouragment at the prompting of God and His Holy Spirit. Our steps maybe provendencially directed to favorable happenstances that make profound impressions to help counter our gloomy thoughts.

And the Devil, plainly showing our sins that cause us to despair and trys to drown out the Holy Spirits words of reassurance, and nearly causes us to believe his lies...that God has abandoned us, and that He cares not a wit for us...What rubbish! God shows us His love in that He first loved us and sent His Son to die for our sins and to stop the lies of the Devil cold in thier tracks.

Do not listen to your gloomy thoughts, but rather concentrate upon the Goodness of God, and His character...believing that He loves you and is sending His love to you thru His messengers...Believe this, and you will see the workings of God Himself...

[Gerr]

One of the most helpful songs during my darkest moments was one of Evie's songs. It starts like this:

When I think I'm going under,

Part the waters, Lord.

When I feel the waves around me,

Calm the sea.

[Windsor]

Louisa M. Stead wrote the lyrics to "Tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus" after her husband died. You may find comfort in her words. I've provided a link to a music video version on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG5BI82aS8c

’Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus,

Just to take Him at His Word;

Just to rest upon His promise,

And to know, “Thus saith the Lord!”

Refrain:

Jesus, Jesus, how I trust Him!

How I’ve proved Him o’er and o’er;

Jesus, Jesus, precious Jesus!

Oh, for grace to trust Him more!

Oh, how sweet to trust in Jesus,

Just to trust His cleansing blood;

And in simple faith to plunge me

’Neath the healing, cleansing flood!

Yes, ’tis sweet to trust in Jesus,

Just from sin and self to cease;

Just from Jesus simply taking

Life and rest, and joy and peace.

I’m so glad I learned to trust Thee,

Precious Jesus, Savior, Friend;

And I know that Thou art with me,

Wilt be with me to the end.

[Woody]

Check out Woody's Goodies some time.

[Neil D]

Not sure that I like the sound of "Woody's Goodies", but where is this place...?

I ask because I don't know where it is....and Ozarkwoman may not know where it is either....