miz3 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 miz3, how does it feel to be in perfect agreement on so many things with someone who teaches that 2/3 of the NT was planted there by the devil, and teaches that Peter was deceived by the devil on the Day of Pentecost into thinking the tongue of fire was the Holy Spirit? It feels just fine when they (whoever they may be) like myself understand the Truth. In this case the Truth is that Revelation and everywhere else in the Bible says absolutely nothing about the United States in Prophecy, the Sunday Law, etc. etc. The Truth is Ellen White wrote what she was taught about these things from her upbringing in the Protestant Church about the Reformation. What Ellen White believed is not in the Bible in this case. Neither is her view of the Sanctuary/Investigative Judgment/1844. It is all fantasy. I would ask you, John317, how does it feel to believe and be agreement with an unBiblical doctrine that cannot be seen anywhere in the Bible. How does it feel, John317, to be in agreement with a false doctrine. You have had many chances to prove your failed doctrines from the Bible and the Bible only and every single time you have utterly failed to even make a beginning point let alone advance your unBiblical doctrines.
miz3 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 By the way John317, is the "thousand years in which is bound the devil" a symbol or is it literal? Do you believe it is symbolic because as you stated everything in prophecy is found in symbols so as to confuse the devil and evil ones? I find your position funny because you just cannot be consistent and hold such a foolish view. You are desperately grabbing at straws, any straw, but unfortunately for you there are no straws to be had.
miz3 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich marcos, you wrote: "Don't be a goofball. If the Bible said, "The United States will make a Sunday Law and that's the Mark of the Beast", do you think the prophecy could happen? Of course not. God would have shot himself in the foot. God gives things in symbols, and only the "wise shall understand". Very good my friend! But you went and messed it up by saying matter of factly, that the United States is there..I take you mean, "YOU THINK it's there.". I am 100% confident that the Lamb-Like Beast is the United States. Perhaps if there was no such thing as Ellen White, I probably wouldn't have as much confidence as I do. But I am 100% confident that she was an inspired prophet. Therefore, that makes me 100% confident that her confirmation of J.N. Andrew's and Uriah Smith's discovery that the United States is the nation symbolized by the Lamb-Like Beast is correct. Finally an admission on just how much "influence" Ellen White is on this doctrine. If only the SDA Church .org would take even this minor step. John317 are you going to take a similar position?
ClubV12 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 I completely agree with the comment concerning the peace, security and confidence one can find in the comments of Ellen White on any given verse. I have yet to find a commentator that comes close to the authority and clairity she brings to the table. There are SO many making claims as to what they feel is the correct interpretation. Most of the time it's pretty easy to weed out those who really don't know what they are talking about. The real problem are those who come "pretty close" but still present substantial error and inconsitencies at some point. No question, as to Ellen Whites ability to make plain a scripture verse she has few equals in her time or today. It's a source that can be trusted. Of course those with an unbalanced view will interpret this post in some ridiculous or fanatical way and suggest I am "worshiping" Ellen White or "placing her above the bible". I also admire the Head Elder in our Church for his biblical knowledge, but I don't worship or place him above the bible either.
Dr. Rich Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich marcos, you wrote: "Don't be a goofball. If the Bible said, "The United States will make a Sunday Law and that's the Mark of the Beast", do you think the prophecy could happen? Of course not. God would have shot himself in the foot. God gives things in symbols, and only the "wise shall understand". Very good my friend! But you went and messed it up by saying matter of factly, that the United States is there..I take you mean, "YOU THINK it's there.". I am 100% confident that the Lamb-Like Beast is the United States. Perhaps if there was no such thing as Ellen White, I probably wouldn't have as much confidence as I do. But I am 100% confident that she was an inspired prophet. Therefore, that makes me 100% confident that her confirmation of J.N. Andrew's and Uriah Smith's discovery that the United States is the nation symbolized by the Lamb-Like Beast is correct. Read what the 2nd beast is, it is NOT a lamb like beast--it has two horns like the lamb. big difference here!
Lysimachus Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Finally an admission on just how much "influence" Ellen White is on this doctrine. If only the SDA Church .org would take even this minor step. John317 are you going to take a similar position? Oh...no no no no, Miz, you misunderstand! You see Miz3, you have virtually zero confidence in your own beliefs, because you really don't have any statement of beliefs. Everything is questionable, and nothing is set in stone for you. Without Ellen White, I would have a 90% confidence that the Lamb Like Beast fits the United States. It just makes too much sense. But the Spirit of Prophecy, which is manifested through Ellen White, affirms and confirms it even more. Up to 100%. That's what Paul says the SOP is for. Read Ephesians 4:13,14. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Lysimachus Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Read what the 2nd beast is, it is NOT a lamb like beast--it has two horns like the lamb. big difference here! At any rate, the horns are lamb-like, and that's all that's important. Whether it's a buffalo, a bison, a bull, whatever, the horns were "lamb-like", representing lamb-like institutions. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
Moderators John317 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Moderators Posted February 24, 2012 ... you stated everything in prophecy is found in symbols so as to confuse the devil and evil ones... No, I never said this. Everything in the prophecy is not in signs or symbols. Jesus said: Rev. 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
miz3 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Originally Posted By: miz3 Finally an admission on just how much "influence" Ellen White is on this doctrine. If only the SDA Church .org would take even this minor step. John317 are you going to take a similar position? Oh...no no no no, Miz, you misunderstand! You see Miz3, you have virtually zero confidence in your own beliefs, because you really don't have any statement of beliefs. Everything is questionable, and nothing is set in stone for you. Without Ellen White, I would have a 90% confidence that the Lamb Like Beast fits the United States. It just makes too much sense. But the Spirit of Prophecy, which is manifested through Ellen White, affirms and confirms it even more. Up to 100%. That's what Paul says the SOP is for. Read Ephesians 4:13,14. Whatever. I do have confidence in God and Jesus Christ who has saved me in His Kingdom. I have confidence that the Bible and the Bible only is the Word of God and that it alone speaks God's Word to me and every other human. So you are wrong about the FACT that I have no beliefs.
miz3 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Originally Posted By: miz3 ... you stated everything in prophecy is found in symbols so as to confuse the devil and evil ones... No, I never said this. Everything in the prophecy is not in signs or symbols. Jesus said: Rev. 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. Make up your mind. Which is it? Is it "secretive signs" that only a few can figure or is it plain enough so that all can understand it?
Windsor Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Certainly the miz3 .org is familiar with the words of Jesus in Matthew 13. 10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” 11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’[a] Remember Adventists Online?
Members phkrause Posted February 25, 2012 Members Posted February 25, 2012 Excellent point Windsor. phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
miz3 Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Certainly the miz3 .org is familiar with the words of Jesus in Matthew 13. 10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” 11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’[a] It appears that Matthew chapter thirteen must be talking about those who see RCC/Pope as the beast in Revelation, those that see Sunday Worship as the Mark of the Beast, and those that see this fantasy United States in Revelation chapter thirteen. These are the ones who hear but never understand. They are like the Pharisees of Christ's day their minds are sooooooo cluttered with their fantasy doctrines that they cannot see, cannot understand, cannot hear, the very plain and simple Word of God. Yet the children and the uneducated people could easily discern exactly what Christ was saying and they understood the secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven because they listened without being cluttered of mind and heart. Thank you for this excellent text which describes perfectly the SDA Church .org. You have been most helpful.
Lysimachus Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 I sure look forward to the day when we can dialogue and discuss with people who have a statement of beliefs---some defined doctrines in their lives---in these forums. ^_^ ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 I sure look forward to the day when we can dialogue and discuss with people who have a statement of beliefs---some defined doctrines in their lives---in these forums. Boy do I agree with this. Maybe someday the SDA Church .org will rest all of its doctrines on the Bible and the Bible only. I won't hold my breath though. Instead of dialoguing with those that believe in fantasies that are not existent in the Bible.
brotherly love Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 We should discuss theology with understanding! We are unified in the salvation through Jesus Christ..solid on the essentials and gracious in the non essentials. This includes all of Christendom (Orthodox,Catholic,protestant...) One of the sole stumbling blocks Jesus experienced was that of religion..the mindset of religion. The Catholics are steeped in religion...but they do preach and believe Jesus crucified and risen...sounds like a Christian to me! We should not throw rocks in glass houses...are we also an opposite form of "Religious"? Religion can be a very hard thing to break..the disciples also had a hard time with this, for example they were looking for a conquering Messiah..and were looking for this up to the end..hence the betrayal of Judas..who was a Zealot. The Jews believed that they had it all figured out by the way of ancestry and the Mosaic law..they did not need a suffering messiah to save them, but to vindicate them..so they just ignored the suffering Messiah..which they deemed to be themselves and waited only for a conquering King. The same goes for Ellen White..she has made some awesome prophesies..and yet some very embarrassing claims! So yes the Bible should be the rossetta stone..every thing else is religion and clouds the mind, and takes away from Christ
BobRyan Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 In 1Thess 5 The Bible tells us not to despise the messages God sends through his prophets. We cannot adopt a "give me the Bible just not the teaching IN the Bible" view of it. in Christ, Bob John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
BobRyan Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 The prophecies predict major changes, many catastrophies, and the appearance of Satan, before the end. All these will have the effect of changing how people think about a lot of issues. Amen! Am seriously missing your ministry in moderating forums brother. God's blessings to you. in Christ, Bob John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Members phkrause Posted March 15, 2012 Members Posted March 15, 2012 Amen! Am seriously missing your ministry in moderating forums brother. God's blessings to you. in Christ, Bob I second that Bob phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
brotherly love Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 I am really staring to read my Bible on my own and without the mindset of Ellen White, and the Sunday Law that I always have believed is coming...is nowhere in the bible. If it was crucial..why would the bible not state it clearly? I am starting to believe that the Sunday Law is a misguided prophesy. I really find my mind becoming clear as I read my bible without Ellen White interpreting it for me..I am seeing that the holy spirit is the seal of a believer...so is rejecting Christ the "mark" Do the other Christian denominations have the holy spirit...the ones that eat pork,meat,drink coffee,drink wine and worship on Sunday. Does God keep the Holy Spirit from them? This is a crucial point, because if others have the holy spirit, then by the bible they are sealed. I read in Acts 15, the council of Jerusalem, and at the end, there was none of the stipulations that I have imposed upon myself, this is very clear, but I find myself also trying to twist the obvious. I am wondering if I have a religious mindset, similar to the one that the apostles fought in Acts 15 and the epistles of Paul and Peter. My 2 cents
Dr. Rich Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich Read what the 2nd beast is, it is NOT a lamb like beast--it has two horns like the lamb. big difference here! At any rate, the horns are lamb-like, and that's all that's important. Whether it's a buffalo, a bison, a bull, whatever, the horns were "lamb-like", representing lamb-like institutions. LOL! "Lamb like" means they act as if they are Jesus. It has nothing to do with what the LOOK LIKE.
Dr. Rich Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 I am really staring to read my Bible on my own and without the mindset of Ellen White, and the Sunday Law that I always have believed is coming...is nowhere in the bible. If it was crucial..why would the bible not state it clearly? I am starting to believe that the Sunday Law is a misguided prophesy. I really find my mind becoming clear as I read my bible without Ellen White interpreting it for me..I am seeing that the holy spirit is the seal of a believer...so is rejecting Christ the "mark" Do the other Christian denominations have the holy spirit...the ones that eat pork,meat,drink coffee,drink wine and worship on Sunday. Does God keep the Holy Spirit from them? This is a crucial point, because if others have the holy spirit, then by the bible they are sealed. I read in Acts 15, the council of Jerusalem, and at the end, there was none of the stipulations that I have imposed upon myself, this is very clear, but I find myself also trying to twist the obvious. I am wondering if I have a religious mindset, similar to the one that the apostles fought in Acts 15 and the epistles of Paul and Peter. My 2 cents Good post and welcome to the 'club'. Since there are two qualifiers for salvation found in Rev. 12:17, how come people refuse to abide by them? It does not say anything about the whole bible, it specifically states the "Testimony of Jesus" which is nothing else other that HIS words only. Satan has mislead and deceived MANY because they have been mistakenly taught that the whole NT is the same thing as the words of Jesus. No, there will NOT be any so called "national sunday law".
Kountzer Posted March 25, 2012 Posted March 25, 2012 I was watching Walter Veith talk about this very topic, for at least an hour, on television this morning. I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
brotherly love Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. What are the commandments of God. There are actually 613 commandments of God in the Torah. The testimony of Jesus Christ was in my mind the testimony of Ellen white, but that is really unsupported by the Bible. All I can find is the commandments of Jesus 1. to Love the Lord your God 2. to love your neighbor as yourself John writes about these commandments to justify faith..where he writes about faith without works is dead. I also have been reading Galatians..it has been been making more since I have been trying to release "religion" from my mind. I have also had great success with the rule of interpreting scripture by the light of scripture, and not in light of extra books or my church. One great point I have read about the Galatians and Corinthians.Both legalism and being Antimonian are addressed. The legalism does hit hard on the Adventist and Catholic structure. Antimonionism hits hard at the Protestant pentecostal evangelests and false revivals.
brotherly love Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. What are the commandments of God. There are actually 613 commandments of God in the Torah. The testimony of Jesus Christ was in my mind the testimony of Ellen white, but that is really unsupported by the Bible. All I can find is the commandments of Jesus 1. to Love the Lord your God 2. to love your neighbor as yourself John writes about these commandments to justify faith..where he writes about faith without works is dead. I also have been reading Galatians..it has been been making more since I have been trying to release "religion" from my mind. I have also had great success with the rule of interpreting scripture by the light of scripture, and not in light of extra books or my church. One great point I have read about the Galatians and Corinthians.Both legalism and being Antimonian are addressed. The legalism does hit hard on the Adventist and Catholic structure. Antimonionism hits hard at the Protestant pentecostal evangelests and false revivals. Dr. Rich..be careful, Jesus was under the full law of the Torah during His ministry, He obeyed it and fulfilled it, so words can be taken out of context in this matter..I also have read that you nullify the teachings of Paul and the Apostles...this is a slippery slope..not a wise move, if you disagree with the Apostles...study it harder...dont throw it out!Study who it was written to...the Bible is like listening to one side of a phone conversation.
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