Administrators Naomi Posted March 26, 2012 Administrators Posted March 26, 2012 Originally Posted By: BobRyan Amen! Am seriously missing your ministry in moderating forums brother. God's blessings to you. in Christ, Bob I second that Bob If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
Dr. Rich Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. What are the commandments of God. There are actually 613 commandments of God in the Torah. The testimony of Jesus Christ was in my mind the testimony of Ellen white, but that is really unsupported by the Bible. All I can find is the commandments of Jesus 1. to Love the Lord your God 2. to love your neighbor as yourself John writes about these commandments to justify faith..where he writes about faith without works is dead. I also have been reading Galatians..it has been been making more since I have been trying to release "religion" from my mind. I have also had great success with the rule of interpreting scripture by the light of scripture, and not in light of extra books or my church. So tell me please, which commandments do you suppose will be found in the "Ark of the Covenant" when the 7th Trumpet sounds? (See Rev. 11:19). These are the same commandments those will be keeping in Rev. 12:17--the Covenant, the Ten Commandment only. This is the measuring rod (test) to judge everyone by during the judgments found in Rev. 11:1 and 2. John 18:37 shows us what the testimony of Jesus is--His words given to us by ONLY His eye witnesses (John 14:26 and 17:17-22). Only those who have heard the words first will the Holy Spirit have caused to remember those same words. Mark, Luke and Paul were not eye or ear witnesses. These two things can be verified by what Jesus told the Rich Young ruler in Matthew 19--keep the ten commandments and follow Jesus by reading, understanding and obeying His words.
brotherly love Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 You have proven my main point Dr. Rich. I can see that you are passionate about God, but have an idea in your mind...and then read the Bible with blinders to see only that idea. Your blinders are so thick that you are willing to throw much of the new testament out...obviously the parts that oppose your viewpoint. On this basis,it would be hard to have a Bible study with you..it would be like reading the Bible with a Muslim or Atheist...actually it would be easier...they discredit the whole bible...you discredit what goes away from your theory. This is very dangerous..I hope you will read the new Testament again, and accept its entire authority John 18:37 shows us what the testimony of Jesus is--His words given to us by ONLY His eye witnesses (John 14:26 and 17:17-22). Only those who have heard the words first will the Holy Spirit have caused to remember those same words. Mark, Luke and Paul were not eye or ear witnesses. I hope that you are not telling many people this idea...it is again..my point in a nutshell
Dr. Rich Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Thanks for your 'brotherly love' my friend. You may attack me any time you wish, but please address my point with your cross point by using the words of Jesus. If you use the words of others your testimony would be thrown out of court as tainting the jury. Now, if you have a problem with this then dish it out and let's discuss it. Perhaps you do not trust the words of Jesus? Perhaps you need more sandy soil to build your foundation upon? Just what rules do you abide by in order to confuse the issue? Here is the truth: There is no such thing as a National Sunday Law in the book of Revelation or in the entire bible. There are warnings about adding or subtracting things in this book and calling the Mark of the Beast the National Sunday Law is adding to those words in my opinion. So is adding or subtracting to the ten commandments as I have shown evidence from Revelation that the ten commandments in the Ark of the Covenant is what will be used to judge everyone by. The Ten Commandments are the foundation for the Common Law that has no beginning and no end (a 'maxim of law'). This is why Jesus clearly said that loving God and loving your neighbor is the bottom line for the ten commandments.
brotherly love Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Sorry, I did noy mean to attack you Dr. Rich. I have read a few of your posts and I am very uncomfortable with throwing out huge parts of the New Testament. The Apostles all died (except John) for the message of Jesus. The New Testament also states that the Bible is to be used for proof,reproof and correction. I beleive in the new testament as a whole is the unfallable word of God...This much I wont be swayed As for Ellen White adding to the 3 angels of revelation...that is not an opinion...but a fact..In one of her books she wrote that the health reforms were part of that too...very wrong since some heath reforms go contradict the Bible in parts...so my blinded defense of her really can be veiwed as a form of idolatry...just as the Catholics defend their Pope blindly. I am seeing it clearer each day..I am sick and tired of the conspiracy theories and false history I have been taught. I am sick of the work arounds that I have made for false teachings.for example: wine in the Bibe is grape juice... Mr. Rich..I dont want to have a verse by verse war with you..I want to read the Bible as a whole and interpret it by light of the Bible and not a mindset proving you or anyone else wrong or right. Right now I am reading it looking where the Law is seperated from ceremonial...or the torah as a whole..is it the 613 laws or just 10 laws or commandments..Is the Sabbath part of this..or is it just 9 commandments...so on and so forth. From the earliest history I have found it shows both Sat. and Sun. being worshipped equally..I have read the Didache. Also Acts 15 does not put this on us... So still searching....
Dr. Rich Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Hey no problem BL, however you may be surprised to find that Jesus did not teach or read from the book of Romans, or for that matter any of the NT when He was here on this earth. Nope, the bible that we have today was not used at all by any disciple, nor even by Paul and company. So please be more specific with the words you use as your presumption or assumption can and will cause some serious errors in regardes to your 'bible study'. Your admitance that your study is only into the difference of what is or isn't included in God's Law. Right? Tell you what, you are not alone with this issue as it has cause many a good person to believe in other people's mistaken opinions. First do a study on who, when, why and how the bible, as we have it today, was created. I did and it changed my whole attitude on the prophecy about the wheat and the tares. And, for this reason I would not tell you to throw out anything from the NT as all of it is there for the same reason as the tree of knowing good from evil and Satan was allowed into the Garden of Eden. As for 'all' of the apostles dying for Christ? Where and how did you find the facts for your opinion on what you wrote? Can you be sure of how and when and why Paul died? Again, assumption can be a dangerious thing. Aunt Ellen is dead so what she said or wrote about and added to or subtracted from the book of Revelation will not be a problem as the plagues only affect the living wicked during the last five months of the time of trouble. And there lies the real problem as found in Rev. 2:18-26. Those who have been deceived by her writings and refuse to give them up and repent may have a serious problem during that time. Hey, that warning is not mine, it's from Jesus my friend. If you don't agree, that's your skin and soul, not mine. Me? I will stick with the words of Jesus ONLY and be safe.
brotherly love Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Well, Dr. Rich. In your analogy of tainting the jury, you also killed your own case. If the authors of the new Testament are not reliable..then Jesus's words written by them must also be suspect. In a court of law this would be throwing your witness under the bus, telling the Jury to believe only what the witnesses say in support of your case and disregard anything else they say...the defence or prosecution would have a good time with this! I am not into debating the authenticity of the N.T. or how some authors allegedly twisted the Bible, this was a Gnostic trick from the beginning..they created their own false Bible. Oh, by the way some of them have done the same thing as us...the Catholic church hid the true church (gnosticism) but there was a remnant and was revealed by Madame Blavatzky. The Bible was not used by Jesus or the disciples...of course. That is why it is called the New Testament. lets go back one step..each book of the bible was written..with the same analogy, then Malachi should be suspect..it was the last book, and before that Zechariah...then Haggai...maybe the only true books were the Torah..everything else was added later. I bet you, if a person wanted to see it that way..there would be info on it and a verse to fit it in. So I am not suprised that Jesus and the disciples did not read from the N.T. they lived and taught it...Your theory could also be applied to the Old Testament..
Dr. Rich Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 BL, I believe you are soooo wrong about this my friend, as Jesus verified the OT and so did Paul. Yes, there are words in the OT that God did not inspire, but that is another subject. There is no conflict over them so why discuss it? Did you actually read John 14:26? What's your take on this verse? And how about John 17:17-21? Same question. My take is that the Holy Spirit did cause ONLY the disciples who were with Jesus to hear it first, to rememeber those words so that they could repeat them. Then Jesus prayed for those of us who read those same words and follow and obey them--not the words from others who say they were sent by Jesus and called themselves apostles.
brotherly love Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I honestly dont understand your theology Dr. Rich. Is it just the words of Jesus that are found in Mathew,Mark, Luke and the Acts(to name a few) that are not God inspired? Or is it the entirety of the books,or parts of it? Are the books of Peter,John and James the only books that are inspired?
Dr. Rich Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Mark was not a disciple of Jesus and never knew Jesus, BUT he was a follower of Peter and may have written Peter's gospel because Peter did not know how to read or write--also the reason why 2nd Peter could not have been written by Peter because of the style of writing and the content was after Peter had died. Matthew was a disciple of Jesus and therefore an eyewitness. Luke was not even Jewish, but a Greek Gentile convert of Paul and a follower of Paul. He never knew Jesus so he had to get all of his information for others. John was an apostle and knew Jesus very well, probably better than anyone and this is the reason why Jesus sent the information for the book of Revelation to him through an angel, so that John would know it was directly from Jesus. Saul was an evil man who never knew or met Jesus. He said he was converted, but never mentioned anthing about being taught or baptised by any of the disciples. He invented and started the Christian Church changing the doctrines from keeping the ten commandments and following the words of Jesus only, to being saved by grace by simply having faith that Jesus was the Christ. His gospel is called the gospel of (about) Jesus, while Jesus' gospel was totally different and it was called the gospel of (about) the kingdom of heaven. Paul taught that Jesus came here to die for the sins of the world, while Jesus said that the reason He was born on this earth was to testify to the truth, by presenting the words of His Father to the world that those who believe on those words and obeyed them could be saved. Jude could have been an apostle and therefore knew Jesus. James was not a disciple of Jesus, but was the half brother of Jesus who at one time attempted to have Jesus killed. He had a vision much like Paul did where he saw that he should be the leader of the new 'church', thereby usurping the leadership of Peter. Acts was written by Luke, and while he may have witnessed some of the things the disciples did, he clearly did not witness the events found in Acts 2. This is my take, you should do your own investigation to see what you come up with on this issue.
Guest Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 If you don't agree, that's your skin and soul, not mine. Me? I will stick with the words of Jesus ONLY and be safe. Every time I've quoted the words of Jesus against your far fetched theories, you've shown that you don't even believe the words of Jesus. What am I saying, you don't even understand the words of Jesus. With all that twisting you have to do to make Jesus say what you want him to say. They're not even your theories. They came from wayfinder. He's the one who taught you that the Holy Spirit is a woman, and that you don't need faith or grace. That EGW and Paul were both inspired and led by Satan. That Adam and Eve were not the first humans God created on earth. The time setting, and on and on, ad nauseum. BL is right, all you believe is a theory, and everything else gets discounted, or done away with. That method of study has never worked for anybody.
Dr. Rich Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Thank you RLH for the great welcome mat! You are free to believe what you want my friend. If I have offended you I am sorry. The door is open for you so show me where I am wrong by using the words of Jesus.
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