Gibs Posted February 29, 2012 Author Posted February 29, 2012 Dr. Rich, Jesus is here with us today and dwells in His Saints. He is the comforter that He promised He would be with us always. Primarily God is Spirit, Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. He was there in the great light that blinded Paul and Paul knew it was His God that questioned him and he surrendered there as even though his eyes were blinded physically the scales of his Spiritual seeing was removed and his understanding opened to what he had been doing. Yes Jesus was there without a whisker of a doubt. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Dr. Rich Posted February 29, 2012 Posted February 29, 2012 Gibs, I know you believe that, but I know it is not true. Jesus is in heaven (not the earth) and will come back to this earth the next time as a thief in the night (unexptected by all but the 144k) prior to the time of trouble to seal them. Jesus' prophecy found in Matt. 24:4 because true with Paul, for only Paul's words have deceived many. Being deceived is the opposite of rooting out someone who is not of the truth. Jesus said this person would come during the life time of the disciples and would deceive MANY. In fact, the prophecy Jesus gave about NO ONE knowing the difference between the wheat and the tares for about 2000 years is proof positive that the weeds seeds were planted into the same ground (the NT) as were the wheat seeds by Jesus. The difference between the wheat and the weeds is that the wheat follow only the words of Jesus, while the weeds follow the words of Paul. It is no wonder they looked alike up till now! Quote
Gibs Posted February 29, 2012 Author Posted February 29, 2012 Dr. Rich, but it's so true, so why not believe in the truth of the matter. He could do the same to you or me as He did to awaken Paul at any moment and that wouldn't be his coming. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Dr. Rich Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Oh, don't get me wrong, I am glad that Paul's words are in the NT. If they were not there I would have never known the difference between Paul's gospel and the one Jesus taught. Besides, all of the prophesies about being deceived given by Jesus, plus the wheat and tares, AND the two foundations, could not have come true without Paul. I tried to find another who this would point to and I couldn't. 2Cor. 12:7-9 should be enough to see that Paul has some serious problems. Quote
Gibs Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 It certainly looks to me Paul took it as he should have to me as he gloried in his infirmities that the power of Christ did rest upon him. He had fallen on the Rock and his former pride and way was broken. 2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Gibs Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 Let's get back to Adam's nature, was it changed or not after he sinned, disobeyed, includes Eve of course. Something changed alright as the offspring proves it. Can it be explained? 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
miz3 Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." Genesis 1:26. "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day." Genesis 1:31. "What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”[c] 13 “Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.”[d] “The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[e] 14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[f] 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know.”[g] 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes." Romans 3:9-18. "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—" Romans 5:12 "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men..." Romans 5:18. "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." Genesis 1:26. The Bible is clear that Adam was made perfect without any blot of sin in any part of him immediately after God's Creation. After Adam ate the "fruit" everything changed. Adam changed and so did the whole Creation. That means that Adam's Nature before the "Fall" was completely perfect without sin and Adam's Nature after the fall was completely sinful. Adam before the Fall = complete and total perfection no taint of sin. Adam after the Fall = complete and total sinfulness. Thus, Adam had/experienced two completely different natures. According to Romans all of Adam's posterity have only experienced a "sinful nature" until God comes and works to give them a perfect untainted with sin new nature (Spiritual Nature). That is what I believe. Quote
Gibs Posted March 2, 2012 Author Posted March 2, 2012 Miz3, I find no fault with that comment. It sure changed Satan to from being what one his names is, Lucifer, Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! heylel hay-lale' from 1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:--lucifer. What a change. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
skyblue888 Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Why is this even being debated? Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Dr. Rich Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 It certainly looks to me Paul took it as he should have to me as he gloried in his infirmities that the power of Christ did rest upon him. He had fallen on the Rock and his former pride and way was broken. 2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 2Co 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. You did not see the problem? Paul said that his god gave him a demon--isn't that what a messenger of Satan is? And then Paul besought his god three times to remove this demon, but would not. Don't U find something wrong with this? Quote
Dr. Rich Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 The author of Romans has Adam a bringing sin to this world, but it was Satan, not Adam. If Paul's source of the visions was from Satan, then this would make sense to take away the blame for sin coming to this world from him and put it upon Adam. Can anyone find the change in nature of Adam from any other bible scripure other than from Paul on this issue? Quote
miz3 Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 "The fool[a] says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. 2 The LORD looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. 3 All have turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one." Psalm 14:1-3. Dr. Rich I believe it says "no one does good", "all have turned aside", "there is no one who does good". I believe that broad sweeping judgment would include Adam after the Fall. It would not include Adam before the Fall because Genesis 1:26 tells us that everything was Perfect including Adam. "There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins." Ecclesiastes 7:20. Again I would believe that includes Adam. Thus, the Old Testament shows that Adam had a change in nature. Before the Fall Adam had a "sinless nature". After the Fall Adam had a "sinful nature". I think that should answer your question. Quote
Members phkrause Posted March 3, 2012 Members Posted March 3, 2012 The author of Romans has Adam a bringing sin to this world, but it was Satan, not Adam. If Paul's source of the visions was from Satan, then this would make sense to take away the blame for sin coming to this world from him and put it upon Adam. Can anyone find the change in nature of Adam from any other bible scripure other than from Paul on this issue? Can you show us that quote????? Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
miz3 Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 As to the terms "sinful nature", Spiritual Nature" Peter has something to say. "Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires." 2Peter 1:4. "This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;" 2Peter 2:10. "For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error." 2Peter 2:18. It appears to me that Peter, clearly a most intimate eyewitness to/of Jesus Christ agrees with Paul in the two natures and in the Gospel they both share. Quote
Gibs Posted March 3, 2012 Author Posted March 3, 2012 Miz3, Very good comment, I'm grateful! But I do notice the KJV don't word it the same. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
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