Ignored Important Verses

[Gibs]

Why are the following verses so important? I will try to show the importance of these for our salvation. Unless this is the case as stated in the verses, can any be over comer’s of themselves? It is truly stated we can do nothing of ourselves, especially of putting away our failings to do His Will.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Col 1:27 to whom God did will to make known what is the riches of the glory of this secret among the nations--which is Christ in you, the hope of the glory,

The old man MUST die. There has to be a new birth, Spiritually from above.

Paul isn’t wrong on this as Jesus Christ states the same in above verses.

Ro 6:1 ¶ What, then, shall we say? shall we continue in the sin that the grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 let it not be! we who died to the sin--how shall we still live in it?

Ro 6:3 are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to his death were baptized?

Ro 6:4 we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.

Ro 6:5 For, if we have become planted together to the likeness of his death, so also we shall be of the rising again;

Ro 6:6 this knowing, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;

Ro 6:7 for he who hath died hath been set free from the sin.

SDAdventists, EGW taught this so why are most refusing this light today?

I must repeat this verse to make sure it is read and comprehended.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

What is the fruit we need to bear? Obedience, overcoming the world and sin.

When we came to His Throne of Grace and asked for forgiveness, yes He was true and faithful and we are forgiven for all past sin brought to our hearts but not future sins. Some think they are, well that one thought needs be erased.

Does a man or woman have to do anything? Yes, Die the Death of Self and full surrender to be born again and Christ within or we can not walk the walk He walked and that is what is expected of us.

How so? Because now you have the same power to do so as He had when He walked this earth. None can do it you say. Wrong, get Christ in you and the victory is yours!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye--of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you, than he who is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Paul taught being adopted (Eph. 1) Jesus never taught that but being born of the Holy Spirit, the same Spirit that He was born of as found in Rev, 12.

Paul's theory of dying the death of Christ was just that. He was wrong, as Jesus contered with we all must carry our own cross and become sanctified just as He had become sanctified.

Besides, I have asked many who claim that they 'die daily' what that really means. So far I have never had anyone provide any evidence from the words of Jesus that this idea was the truth.

As for the trinity, you see all three in Ex. 3. 1), The Father, 2) the Son as Michael, the Angel of the Lord, and 3) the Holy Spirit as the 'fire' as the glory of God.

These three also can be found in the Baptism of Jesus. The dove as the Holy Spirit and the voice as the Father and the Son as Jesus.

We know that Jesus was not the same as the Father or the Holy Spirit because one can commit blasphemy to Him without it being the sin that can't be forgiven. We also know that Jesus said that only His Father knew when Jesus was going to come back to this earth. Then in Rev. 1:1, we see that the Father told His Son when He was to come back.

We also know that Jesus said you can't even see the Kingdom of Heaven unless you have been born of the Holy Spirit--not the Father or the Son.

[Gibs]

Dr. Rich, dying daily is a continual death of self we must maintain. We of our nature do not want to let self be # 2 to being of Christ.

Yes I know we are to be baptised by the Father Son and Holy Spirit. It was the Father that was in Christ, He wasn't another God and clearly God is Primarily Spirit and Jesus Christ Himself said that and no argument from me.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

I can give you many verses that will dispell the Trinity doctrine, those are among the ignored verses of today for sure.

Really the verse called the "Shema" a proclamation should do it.

De 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Hmmm, I known not any either!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

I know not any.

Hmmm, I known not any either!

Yahweh, Zues, Odin, Manannan, Thor, Dagda, Jesus,Kernunnos, Tyr.......... just to name a few...

[Gibs]

Ha, ha, Hey only Yahweh only is God, He was in Jesus reconciling the world unto himself. And I posted John 4:24 above Jesus tells us God is Spirit, He is telling us what God is, Yes the Holy Spirit is God, Yahweh is His name.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Now who do you suppose that there "God" is? Yahweh, there is none other.

I just posted this verse above and you come off telling of other Gods, preposterous! , and again,

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

I'm sure Jesus is the son of Yahweh....

Let me ask you this very simple question.

Why are you so sure that he Yahweh is the ONLY God?

[M. T. Cross]

I just posted this verse above and you come off telling of other Gods, preposterous! , and again,

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

All that verse, in of itself, says is that there is NO God

[Gibs]

Ya didn't connect up the part before, the question part, "is there a God beside me? then the answer, "yea there is no God:" Come on now brother surely that is not difficult. He is telling us HE IS THE ONLY ONE! THERE ISN'T ANY OTHER ONE! That is as clear as crystal clear water!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

So that is the reason you believe there is no other Gods? Simply because Yahweh says there is not?

This is a question I have been asking for months here, and have yet to get one solid answer.

Yahweh says he is the only one. Other Gods say differently. What makes what Yahweh says more truthful than other Gods?

Should be a simple question if you are so convinced.

[Robert]

... our old man was crucified with him, that the body of the sin may be made useless

This is referring to the truth as it is in Christ, not in us as individuals. Notice - OUR OLD MAN (our old self) WAS (past tense) crucified with Him!

Romans 7:4 YOU (Paul is speaking to the Roman Christians sometime after Christ's death) also died to the law through the body of Christ,....6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law....

So both Roman 6:6 & 7:4 are referring to our corporate death in the humanity of Christ. This is what saves....

[Robert]

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Sure, but all our Christian living (imperfect as it is) is based on what Christ did in our humanity 2000 years ago. Hence:

John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. ....

Same idea here:

Heb 10:10 "And by that will (Christ's doing & dying), we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

[miz3]

Interesting Gibs. Those same texts that you cited have also bothered me concerning the "Trinity" doctrine.

The Bible however is not definitive as to God and what actually makes God.

This is why we humans struggle sooooooooooooo much with all these texts. It would be a mistake in my view to take an adamant stand on the actual make up of God because in Truth no human actually knows for absolute sure.

God is whatever He wants to be. I see at least three possibilities:

1. God is the Trinity in the way current Christianity believes.

2. God is One only and projects Himself as three Entities.

3. God is of the form no human has/will conceive as of yet and both theories above (1&2)either together/separate are wrong.

What we do know about God:

1. The God of the Bible is the only God existent.

2. Nothing is impossible with God no matter how many paradoxes the human mind devises and how many limiters the human entity tries to put on God that "they erroneously think" is in the Scripture.

God is unbounded in every and all unbounded ways infinitely.

3. God is in absolute control of all (all is unqualified because it actually means all without exception).

4. God is the Source/Maker/Creator of all that is. Nothing came of its own volition. God has no beginning and no end. God has always been. God made time and space. God existed before there was time and space. God is!

5. God determines absolutely everything. It is called God's Will.

6. Everything that is known comes only from God. God knows everything at all instances. There is never ever a moment when God does not know and/or control every little aspect of His Creation.

7. Human brains are unable to actually know God without God's help. Even then there are so many paradoxes that the human brain either shuts down, accepts the paradoxes without explanation, or tries on its own to give an explanation that "suits" the human mind and fulfills the human's desire to be the center and the most important entity existent. That is the human in some form and/or shape operates independent of God (this is never true and it is not Biblical).

This last FACT is the FACT (underlined part) why so many humans have an erroneous view of God and God's actions. In essence they "create" their own god which is dangerous because that is a breaking of the First Two Commandments of Exodus chapter twenty.

This latter (underlined part again) view places the human as the entity in the driver's seat and God as simply a reactor to what the human entity determines. This is central tenant of the human-centric view of reality.

The God Centric view always adheres to the first six points listed above and decries the "underlined part" as blasphemous.

All humans are very human centric because they are born with this human egocentricity hard wired within them. Only God can change this condition and make the human entity God Centric.

[Guest]

Paul taught being adopted (Eph. 1) Jesus never taught that

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brothers! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matt 12:49,50

Here, Jesus plainly states that those who do the will of His Father, are adopted into the family and become His brothers and sisters.

[M. T. Cross]

2. God is One only and projects Himself as three Entities.

3. God is of the form no human has/will conceive as of yet and both theories above (1&2)either together/separate are wrong.

[Gibs]

Miz3,

What I see there is different views among "trinity" believers. It is a coined word and I don't like coined words. It's a fact God, Yahweh presents Himself to us in triune, As Himself the Father, in His Son whom also is the son of man and He comes to us by Spirit as Jesus made it clear that is what he is.

The Father, Yahweh is not limited in no way as He is well able to be all He needs to be to accomplish the salvation of man. And if man will cooperate none, not one need to be lost.

Then it looks like to me the time comes when Yahshua has this problem of sin all taken care of He, Yahshua returns His Deity vested in Him back to the Father, "that He may be all in all", again. Note not many take time to realize what these verses bring out.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

There is no more need for Yahweh to be vested in Yahshua. He will be the great Prince and our Great King, yes we are His, He bought us, we are His rightful subjects.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Gibs, If you want to listen to a great bible study on this issue of who God is (we call this entity God because we don't fully understand) go to www.blocktalkradio.com/sot for 3/3/12 study by Rick Sterling. Do you understand what 'capturing the name of God' means? Please let me know what you think on this study as it gets deep.

[Gibs]

Dr. Rich,

God,Yahweh is so great and so far beyond us finite humans that we do well to understand what Jesus has revealed to us of Him. Jesus's Words,

Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

You see not many will see even what Jesus has given for us to know as far as we finite humans can know until we are made infinite.

The Holy Angels cast themselves at His feet in great adoration and worship and man will hardly get on his knees. Why? Because man don't know very clear who he is worshiping and holds himself in far too much esteem at His feet.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Yes, the one and only one who is God, He was in His Son born of woman and he was the son of man also. Jesus was not another God at all but it was His Father that dwelt in Him.

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Yes, Yes, The Holy Spirit is God, Yahweh, and the Father was in the Word, Yahshua, means Yahweh saviour. The Father, Yahweh is Spirit.

We now have a body of flesh the spirit He gave us dwells in, that is the real you and me which the body only is soon to die, but if faithful, we will be in a better body, read,

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

I have a thorough study on the Godhead, over two pages, and I may have to post it, but I've already put out so much the administrators may not appreciate me doing it again.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

So that is the reason you believe there is no other Gods? Simply because Yahweh says there is not?

This is a question I have been asking for months here, and have yet to get one solid answer.

Yahweh says he is the only one. Other Gods say differently. What makes what Yahweh says more truthful than other Gods?

Should be a simple question if you are so convinced.

Gibs, do you or do you not have a solid answer to this question?

Please don't get me wrong, I respect your beliefs in the Biblical deity. In no way am I saying he and his son do not exist and do not have a powerful presense and affect the lives of their worshippers. I don't even doubt that they have a plan in place to one day take their followers to abide with them in their heavenly paradise.

However, that said, I firmly believe that there are many deity, most with plans for their followers, others with a willingness to lay down their lives to defeat evil. Others with a great and powerful presense and affect in and on the lives of their faithfull.

What I truly wonder is, beyond some verses in the book of your deity saying he is the only one, you have no evidence that he is. Those verses could as easily mean that he wants his followers to not worship other deity, that if you are his follower, then be faithfull to him. Its like marriage - just because I am married to my wife does not mean other women do not exist and that I should tell other men that my wife is the only woman in the universe, it simply means I am to be faithfull to her, that I place no other women before her.

[Gibs]

E C,

There is gods many in methology but they are false gods, Satan would like to be a God but even in the first place he was the highest created being. He can only apire to be god, but the God, Yahweh that formed him will bring him, Satan to ashes on this earth.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

You see the total of creation was done by Yahshua, He was sent of the Father to do it. He is actually Yahweh-Messiah. There is no other Creator, it is all Yahwehs and He keeps the complete total of it in place. All other life forms came from him and Satan went about altering some of the lifeforms. This is being done today and it is a sure sign it all must end soon. You are going to see all sorts of bizzar creatures and things not far down the road, some are seeing them now and are called crazy.

E C I know you don't believe it but the Bible and the Word of God is the foundation and fountain of all wisdom and understanding.

Miracles will soon be seen in great display by the wicked forces of this earth before long. Then it won't be long until is seen far greater things by the Great Creator as He brings all this wicked world to a close.

In great display He Yahshua will deliver His Own from the terrible firestorm that the earth will be in.

There is no other true Deity to worship and be of other than the Great Creator who will soon show all He is the only one and He alone is King of all that there is.

His prophecy proves Him and there is but few who see and discern it to really see. The prophecy is only understood by the elect for the simple reason they only, have His Spirit to discern it to know it perfectly.

No I won't make a believer out of you, you must first be taken by His Spirit and broken on Him the Rock. Then His Spirit comes into you and things come in place and you understand.

Well EC show me some creation or works by any other god and what has any of them ever done in truth and not just a fairy tale. Nothing, is the answer!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

There is a creation story associated with pretty much every pantheon of deity that I know of. There are even those that have an end of this world prophecy as well. I understand and respect that you base your beliefs out of the bible. I am not trying to get you to not believe in it. I just don't understand the idea of accepting it at face value as being the ONLY divine message. No one has yet to give me an answer as to why it should be held over any other teachings, other than it says it should be.

Gibs, or anyone wanting to take on the question, I am not asking this to make light of your beliefs, I ask sincerly because it really baffles me.

[Gibs]

Where is these gods word? Are they not all the writing of men only and no proof of being from a deity. The prophecy of Yahweh proves that He is and that His Word and prophecy will come to pass. The fulfilled ones to the last point of those that have happened proves Him.

Just read the first Gospel written some 600 yrs before the event, 12 verses long, it is Isaiah 53:1-12.

Isa 53:1 ¶ Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 53:4 ¶ Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Should not the Jews not have received Him? Well the Spirit of God didn't open their eyes to it. Why? The answer is simple, they didn't walk His way but their own.

That is one of the simplest prophecies there is showing He knew the end from the beginning as these writings came down from Him by His Spirit to His faithful prophets, men of God who walked with Him.

Same it is today, people will not read the Word of the one and only TRUE God and go instead to the cobbling of men's fantasies.

Another thing is, Yahweh only has salvation that all may live eternally and the only one who has sent a proven Saviour who not only raised Himself from the dead but many with him. The True God Only has a proven Saviour.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

Gibs, the Bible was written by men as well. It is the recorded history of the Hebrew nation and their God by men. The NT is the story of Jesus and his earliest followers. I am not disputing that any of it happened. Even the prophecies that have come true. But the prophecies are pretty simple. Baically this deity gave his people aheads up on what he was going to do, then he did it. Its the mythology of the Hebrew people.

Out of curiosity before continuing this debate, and I wish to thank you for finally taking the time to engage in it, have you ever taken the time to read say the Nordic Edda's, Any of the ancient Celtic mythology, the Greek ect.?

[Gibs]

EC,

No I don't care to get into it, I delved into it enough to know I don't want nothing to do with it and I would advise you not to waste your time. Why? The time that men may come to salvation is very short now. I would get with the real and only salvation program there is and ever will be and it is soon to be over.

I find you need to know this about me, I know my God and Saviour, He dwells in me and He has opened my eyes and understanding. You can experience the same, fall on Him the Rock and be broken and full surrender and you will be a new person when fully converted.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Hello,

I want this to get back on track of, "Ignored Important Verses", please read the original post and comment on it please, if there is another subject you have in mind you could start a thread.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

EC,

No I don't care to get into it, I delved into it enough to know I don't want nothing to do with it and I would advise you not to waste your time. Why? The time that men may come to salvation is very short now. I would get with the real and only salvation program there is and ever will be and it is soon to be over.

I find you need to know this about me, I know my God and Saviour, He dwells in me and He has opened my eyes and understanding. You can experience the same, fall on Him the Rock and be broken and full surrender and you will be a new person when fully converted.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Ah ok, as I thought.