Ignored Important Verses

[miz3]

There is a creation story associated with pretty much every pantheon of deity that I know of. There are even those that have an end of this world prophecy as well. I understand and respect that you base your beliefs out of the bible. I am not trying to get you to not believe in it. I just don't understand the idea of accepting it at face value as being the ONLY divine message. No one has yet to give me an answer as to why it should be held over any other teachings, other than it says it should be.

Gibs, or anyone wanting to take on the question, I am not asking this to make light of your beliefs, I ask sincerly because it really baffles me.

The reason is that no human on their own can give you the answer you seek.

Only the God of the Bible can give you the answer you seek. If God does not give you the answer you seek then you will never have it. However, the Bible says in John chapter one that Jesus Christ (God) is the "Light" that lights every human at some point(s) in their life.

When that happens EC be prepared because God is for real.

God made it so that humans would "testify" that God of the Bible is real but God never ever intended that humans would be the clinchers. Only God will be the Clincher through the Holy Spirit. Yes, God does use us humans as the "conduit" through which He speaks by the Holy Spirit to other humans sometimes.

If you hear God talking to you through another human and/or any other vehicle and/or by direct means with the Holy Spirit I hope that you will listen and obey what God tells you.

Then and only then you will know.

Just remember that no human and/or anything on their own can give you the answer you ask for.

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Paul taught being adopted (Eph. 1) Jesus never taught that

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brothers! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matt 12:49,50

Here, Jesus plainly states that those who do the will of His Father, are adopted into the family and become His brothers and sisters.

You must be kidding! Jesus did NOT say anthing at all about adoption, your ASSUMPTION just got you into trouble again! Jesus said that you MUST be BORN again of the Holy Spirit, and to do that you MUST DO the will of the Father, which are the words of Jesus. Do NOT twist the words of Jesus my friend!

[Dr. Rich]

Great posts Miz3 and Gibs, as it is nearly impossible for 'us' to give you an answer that you would accept, Sky, since one has to have a common foundation for those answers. Rules are rules my friends. BUT, as Gibs and others have said before, the time is SOON coming when those questions will all be answered as the prophesies found in Daniel and Revelation start to reveal the ONE true God (as that is the name we use for the Creator). Sky, I know you are not the only one with questions like you have written here as I too have had lots of 'crazy' questions I suppose. But I am now finding, just as Gibs so well stated, that little by little, those questions are being answered. When that happens, (as many here I am sure have experanced), you WILL know it. Just don't sit on it thinking that's all there is to it.

We don't have to feel so bad about being mixed up on things as Jeremiah was so mixed up that he even blamed God for confusing him, forgetting the word "IF" like people do today. It's a choice we all have to make.

[M. T. Cross]

Great posts Miz3 and Gibs, as it is nearly impossible for 'us' to give you an answer that you would accept, Sky, since one has to have a common foundation for those answers. Rules are rules my friends. BUT, as Gibs and others have said before, the time is SOON coming when those questions will all be answered as the prophesies found in Daniel and Revelation start to reveal the ONE true God (as that is the name we use for the Creator). Sky, I know you are not the only one with questions like you have written here as I too have had lots of 'crazy' questions I suppose. But I am now finding, just as Gibs so well stated, that little by little, those questions are being answered. When that happens, (as many here I am sure have experanced), you WILL know it. Just don't sit on it thinking that's all there is to it.

We don't have to feel so bad about being mixed up on things as Jeremiah was so mixed up that he even blamed God for confusing him, forgetting the word "IF" like people do today. It's a choice we all have to make.

I think you mean me and not Sky, as Sky has not posted in this thread

I think we do have a common foundation. We are all seeking truth!

I am not going to disagree with you on a basic thing you posted, and Gibs and Miz are getting at as well. As one grows spiritually, they just KNOW. With almost all spiritual matters it is virtually impossible to prove what you KNOW. But you do. You just KNOW.

But here is where the tricky part comes into play. You know what you do, and I know what I know. What happens when what we both KNOW to be true totally conflicts with each other. We both KNOW the TRUTH of our knowledge, yet it is miles apart from each other.....

[Gibs]

EC,

One is wrong and one is right, we can know as one is from the lying spirits and the other is from The Holy Spirit. There is only the two kinds of spirits that lead men in this world, the Holy and the unholy, evil ones of Satan, the great deceiver.

All can sort it out, it's up to each individual, make sure you get it right, as one way leads to eternal life, the other to eternal death, it is really that simple.

[Gibs]

Folks,

Please let's bring this thread back to "important ignored verses".

EmtyCross has starte a new thread on this subject "The Truth Of Knowledge".

The verses I'm most interrested in are the ones on our salvation, and to bring out the false ways that have come about in the popular theology of all the denominational churches of today, it's a loser theology and all I feel should take a look at it seriously.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Sorry about that EC and Sky, you are correct. Your question is one for the ages as I am sure muslims want to know the same thing. How can God give one person a 'truth' and another a complete opposite 'truth'?

My answer to this is, He can't. Either one of them is correct or neither of them are correct. The problem is not God, but falls on the one who thinks that the voice or words they pay attention to are from God. This serious problem is why I will only listen to and form my belief from the words of Jesus given to us by ONLY His eyewitnesses, and from the OT because Jesus verified that the OT is good.

[Gibs]

I am bringing back the original post as it has gotten sidetracked,

Ignored Important Verses

Why are the following verses so important? I will try to show the importance of these for our salvation. Unless this is the case as stated in the verses, can any be over comer’s of themselves? It is truly stated we can do nothing of ourselves, especially of putting away our failings to do His Will.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Col 1:27 to whom God did will to make known what is the riches of the glory of this secret among the nations--which is Christ in you, the hope of the glory,

The old man MUST die. There has to be a new birth, Spiritually from above.

Paul isn’t wrong on this as Jesus Christ states the same in above verses.

Ro 6:1 ¶ What, then, shall we say? shall we continue in the sin that the grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 let it not be! we who died to the sin--how shall we still live in it?

Ro 6:3 are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to his death were baptized?

Ro 6:4 we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.

Ro 6:5 For, if we have become planted together to the likeness of his death, so also we shall be of the rising again;

Ro 6:6 this knowing, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;

Ro 6:7 for he who hath died hath been set free from the sin.

SDAdventists, EGW taught this so why are most refusing this light today?

I must repeat this verse to make sure it is read and comprehended.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

What is the fruit we need to bear? Obedience, overcoming the world and sin.

Folks we must all come to see Christ in us is our only hope of Glory, Paul gave us the very best guidance one could possibly give.

When we came to His Throne of Grace and asked for forgiveness, yes He was true and faithful and we are forgiven for all past sin brought to our hearts but not future sins. Some think they are, well that one thought needs be erased.

Does a man or woman have to do anything? Yes, Die the Death of Self and full surrender to be born again and Christ within or we can not walk the walk He walked and that is what is expected of us.

How so? Because now you have the same power to do so as He had when He walked this earth. None can do it you say. Wrong, get Christ in you and the victory is yours!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye--of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you, than he who is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Dr. Rich, I have not yet posted on this thread!

[Dr. Rich]

Close, but not what Jesus taught as He told the woman, "Go and sin no more", you will notice that He did not tell her to die daily, nor to die to self, but simply to not sin anymore. The Rich Young Ruler also wanted to know how one can be in the Kingdom of Heaven, and Jesus answer is one we all should examine--keep all of the ten commandments (that is what they were talking about here) and follow (abide in) the words of Jesus. (Not to follow him physically, but follow what He said and taught).

Matthew 25:14-30 shows us that Jesus, as the one going on a "long jurney" and gave his bondservants (slaves) instructions but did NOT tell them what to do with the talents--right? In fact, the slaves could not even reach the Master to ask Him what to do with the talents--they had to use their OWN brain--and make a choice. The Master did NOT help them make a choice.

This prophecy blows holes in the idea that one must die daily and that God is in charge of people's life if they do this 'dying' somehow. (I never ever heard a good explaination of how that was supposed to work.)

Notice that AFTER a long time (verse 19) the Master comes back and settled accounts with the three who had to make their own minds (choice) up on what they did with the talents.

Right from the get-go, God told Cain "If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, BUT YOU MUST MASTER IT!" Here again God is showing us that WE are in charge of the choices we make. God did not tell Cain to allow Him to live inside Cain so that Cain would make the right choice, did He?

The 'abide' in Me and 'eat my flesh' meant to understand and follow the words of Jesus. (John 8:31) Many of Jesus' disciples left when Jesus said this about eating His flesh because they did not understand what it was that Jesus was talking about. (John 6:63)

[Gibs]

Thanks Dr. Rich for keeping us on the theme here and yes for sure I do have a comeback comment.

It was after the flood that God put His Spirit in man that he would be strong enoughl to withstand the devil. He Saw that man had become too weak to stand and be obedient. Man had become so evil before the flood that only a few could be saved.

Now what about today, we are told it would become again as in the days of Noe. Are we not there? Do men realize it? No of course not. Satan has men thinking they are righteous and are full of intelligence and wisdom and what they do pleases God. The commandments are now disregarded and practically all will be saved as all believe. The truth being if they don't believe His Word they do not really believe. All they have for the most part is presumption.

Dr. Rich whether you will ever come to realize it Paul's statement "die daily" is a truism and if one don't it is because of pride. Not that I think you are full of pride but you are looking at it in another way. The death is of self being # 1. We are not # 1, He is, we need to humble ourselves and become malleable to Him. We could return back to the old "wallow" if we didn't "die" daily so to speak. You may term it different and that is OK if we understand you term to mean that to us.

Lu 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

The reason we must have the indwelling of Jesus Christ is in this verse,

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

This is the only way for us to ever be overcomers, as we are nothing of ourselves to best the devil.

We must acknowledge we are powerless to overcome the devil and his temptaions. Who ever thinks he can of himself is doomed to fall without any doubt.

All who are thinking we do not have to be overcomers better be a thinking that one over real good.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

I am bringing back the original post as it has gotten sidetracked,

Ignored Important Verses

Why are the following verses so important? I will try to show the importance of these for our salvation. Unless this is the case as stated in the verses, can any be over comer’s of themselves? It is truly stated we can do nothing of ourselves, especially of putting away our failings to do His Will.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Col 1:27 to whom God did will to make known what is the riches of the glory of this secret among the nations--which is Christ in you, the hope of the glory,

The old man MUST die. There has to be a new birth, Spiritually from above.

Paul isn’t wrong on this as Jesus Christ states the same in above verses.

Ro 6:1 ¶ What, then, shall we say? shall we continue in the sin that the grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 let it not be! we who died to the sin--how shall we still live in it?

Ro 6:3 are ye ignorant that we, as many as were baptized to Christ Jesus, to his death were baptized?

Ro 6:4 we were buried together, then, with him through the baptism to the death, that even as Christ was raised up out of the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we in newness of life might walk.

Ro 6:5 For, if we have become planted together to the likeness of his death, so also we shall be of the rising again;

Ro 6:6 this knowing, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of the sin may be made useless, for our no longer serving the sin;

Ro 6:7 for he who hath died hath been set free from the sin.

SDAdventists, EGW taught this so why are most refusing this light today?

I must repeat this verse to make sure it is read and comprehended.

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

What is the fruit we need to bear? Obedience, overcoming the world and sin.

Folks we must all come to see Christ in us is our only hope of Glory, Paul gave us the very best guidance one could possibly give.

When we came to His Throne of Grace and asked for forgiveness, yes He was true and faithful and we are forgiven for all past sin brought to our hearts but not future sins. Some think they are, well that one thought needs be erased.

Does a man or woman have to do anything? Yes, Die the Death of Self and full surrender to be born again and Christ within or we can not walk the walk He walked and that is what is expected of us.

How so? Because now you have the same power to do so as He had when He walked this earth. None can do it you say. Wrong, get Christ in you and the victory is yours!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye--of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you, than he who is in the world.

The part above in green is a part where you are wrong. When Jesus Christ died on the Cross Jesus Christ died for/made forgiveness for every sin of humanity regardless of whether that sin was past, present, and/or future. Christ paid the penalty for absolutely every human sin.

What Jesus Christ on the Cross didn't do is "give humans victory" over every sin. The text you cited, 1John 1:9 is talking about when we sinners come to God and express sorrow for our sin and ask for victory for our sin God as the text states will give us that victory only for those present sins. God does not give us Victory for future sins until they come up.

You are confusing "Forgiveness on the Cross" with "Sorrow and the plea for Victory" as stated in 1John 1:9.

There is a big difference between the two concepts. One deals with "Justification" and 1John 1:9 deals with "Sanctification". These are two completely different processes.

Most humans are confused by these two processes and get them mixed up almost always.

[Gibs]

Miz3,

I must solidly disagree with your comment back. Don't make sense that then to repent and be baptized of the Holy Spirit is not necessary. Then there is no need for confession of any sins. Then we can go on sinning and it is forgiven.

Then there really was not need for Him to have died that we might be saved, He would have just announced all are forgiven, but because of sin all must live a life in a kind of "hell" for a time.

This "new age theology" that has come in is the biggest loss of souls of all false doctrines.

Take a good look, we are now in the days equivalent to the days of Noe, how many were saved out of it? If these day are as bad how many will be saved out of this present time? He tells us, FEW!

Notice the "repent" in these verses

Mt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Ac 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ac 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Ac 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Re 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Jesus Christ in us is our only hope and Paul makes it clear.

Yes sanctification is a going on thing as long as we live, we die daily and gaining greater light each day but self must be killed that the new may have the prominence and that is His Diveine Nature within, we die daily that we don't put Him out.

Does a man or woman have to do anything? Yes, Die the Death of Self and full surrender to be born again and Christ within or we can not walk the walk He walked and that is what is expected of us.

How so? Because now you have the same power to do so as He had when He walked this earth. None can do it you say. Wrong, get Christ in you and the victory is yours!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

Gibs,

Christ died for all sins in the Cross. Romans chapter five says that because of that "all humans" have been Justified. There can be no argument. Even though Romans chapter five has settled the issue it remains that humans will still REJECT it. This is the Justification part of Salvation.

Humans don't know that they have sinned until God through the Holy Spirit convicts them of this sin. Once convicted of their sin the human then depends and obeys 1John 1:9. This is the Sanctification part of Salvation.

It is not complex in fact it is very simple. Yet humans get confused all the time because they have the wrong "human assumptions".

[Gibs]

Miz,

That conviction brings one to the throne of grace in repentance and confession and then the sin is forgiven and not until. Remorse must come first.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

So, Gibs, are you saying that before one may take hold of Christ's righteousness, he must wait until he has made a suitable repentance?

[Gibs]

It is accomplished by repentance,

Mt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I posted a bunch of verses similar on an earlier comment.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[miz3]

Miz,

That conviction brings one to the throne of grace in repentance and confession and then the sin is forgiven and not until. Remorse must come first.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I guess we disagree on this.

Apparently Romans chapter five has no Truth for you in this regard.

[Dr. Rich]

Dr. Rich, dying daily is a continual death of self we must maintain. We of our nature do not want to let self be # 2 to being of Christ.

Yes I know we are to be baptised by the Father Son and Holy Spirit. It was the Father that was in Christ, He wasn't another God and clearly God is Primarily Spirit and Jesus Christ Himself said that and no argument from me.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

I can give you many verses that will dispell the Trinity doctrine, those are among the ignored verses of today for sure.

Really the verse called the "Shema" a proclamation should do it.

De 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Hmmm, I known not any either!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

These verses do nothing to dispel the trinity doctine do they? Of course there is ONE God, just as there is ONE family of Dr. Rich! The word for God has been hidden from humans as we can't 'capture' that name. This is why Michael said just to call him "I AM". The Angel of the Lord is Michael, who was placed into Mary so that He would become a physical son of man, but yet He was God since He was the Father's Son.

Those found in Rev. 12:17 will also be "God" as they to will be in the Family of God. Their spiritual Mother is the Woman of Rev. 12, the Holy Spirit.

[Dr. Rich]

Oh, I still want to know what dying daily really is, as one can't die and then be resurected again each day, as that is really silly. You can say you die, but that would not be correct, as that is NOT what you are doing. Saying one dies daily (for me) would make that statment a violation of the 9th commandment.

Now, if someone means they die spiritually instead of physically, ok, but then what really does that mean? Here is the thing, you can't seperate the flesh from the spirit because if you do, you are completely dead--period.

But simply praying and asking God for the help of the Holy Spirit to be with them each day is ok and the right thing to do, but it is NOT dying daily.

And another thing that is wrong, is the thinking that the 'church' is the body of Christ. And that each has a body part of this fictional body. That's pure nonsense to me too. Jesus did not come here to establish a 'body of Christ', He came here to testify to the truth so that people could know how to belong to the Kingdom of Heaven, for only those in the KOH will be the ones that are saved. Seek ye FIRST the KOH and His Righteousness....

[Gibs]

Dr. Rich, many are not born again in the first place and even hold that repentance is not needed no more.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

It is a spiritual death of self each new day and a pick up again to live in Him and He in us. Some believe one cannot fall away once saved, well not true. It amounts to staying away from falling back into a backslidden state.

2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Paul's concept don't catch your way of seeing it is all but matches mine just fine.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Ok, I have no problem If that is what you mean, but I doubt if this is what the majority belive. I was talking to someone a few days ago who told me that they go to a 'born again' church and I asked them if I could go there and ask questions to get the true answers because John said that those truely born of God will never sin again, meaning they would not have any lie in their mouths. He looked startled at me and said that NO ONE can stop sinning.

I then asked what he meant by 'born again' and was told, "you know, dying daily". So, if that's what they mean by this then it is NOT the same thing that I see what Jesus spoke to Nicadams about-a ONE time experance where you become a son or daughter of God, so you would then be a spiritual being, God! But so far, I have not found ONE person to be truely born again.

[Gibs]

Dr. Rich, That is true, one truly born again has the victory over sin. Many backslide right away too as far as that goes and so it is something to stay "hot" and not lukewarm or cold. Being born again is first and then the process of holding to the firm foundation. We are not home yet the minute we are born again.

Re 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Re 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Does not justification come first first and later the 'graduation' which is also the born again experance by the Holy Spirit, thereby making this person a spritual being as God, by being in God's family? That is also called sanctification. Once sanctified, you are a spiritual being just like the "24 Elders" found in Revelation--who by the way, are the 'jury' for the judgments found in Rev. 11:1-2.

[Gibs]

Dr. Rich,

Men have changed it around to the way they want savation and it will not be. His way only is the way and the ONLY way to His Everlasting Kingdom!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.