Women's Ordination

[Woody]

http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2012/03/20/columbia-union-reaffirms-request-ordain-women

[phkrause]

Great article.

[Woody]

yes pk. I think we are on the right track with this. And I expect to see a ground swell of support that will continue.

Praise God for the leadership we have.

[miz3]

Thanks Woody for this great article.

It seems the ball is still rolling.

It will come. Yes, sir. In the future women will be ordained as this is right that they should.

[Gibs]

Really, men don't have anything to do with who is ordained, God only ordains and sends forth His Teachers. Men can only have a recognition service that that one is ordained of God. Who ordained EGW? God did, He sent her forth, some rejected her and it will always be the case. Many a truly ordained of Him are rejected, the testimony don't suit what they want to hear etc.

For me, I must sort out if the one I'm hearing is ordained. they must speak and teach,

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Thanks Woody for this great article.

It seems the ball is still rolling.

It will come. Yes, sir. In the future women will be ordained as this is right that they should.

Thanks for this post miz3. Yes, I believe they will.

[Woody]

Really, men don't have anything to do with who is ordained, God only ordains and sends forth His Teachers. Men can only have a recognition service that that one is ordained of God. Who ordained EGW? God did, He sent her forth, some rejected her and it will always be the case. Many a truly ordained of Him are rejected, the testimony don't suit what they want to hear etc.

For me, I must sort out if the one I'm hearing is ordained. they must speak and teach,

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Thanks Gibs. Yes, I believe that many women are ordained and called by God. Some as with EGW will be recognized by the church as ordained. And some will not. But we have to accept that some errors will take place. We are just human. Ellen White was given Ordination Credentials as an ordained pastor of the church and I believe that if a woman is called of God that the church should not ignore it.

[Gerr]

Well, here we go again. If this is such an important issue, and since both pro/con views all muster support for their views from the same sources, why not declare a fast and prayer and soul-searching to see what the Lord's will? Or do we still believe that He does? And put to rest this distracting and divisive issue to rest!!!

[Naomi]

Gerry,

Amen & Amen!!!

[Gibs]

There never was any need of fussing around about it, recognize the fact it is God that does the ordaining and sending forth His Teachers. When it is recognized a woman or man is sent and ordained of God then have an ordaination recognition service. That is all our ordination thing is, face it, you yourself is the one even after that must decide for yourself, was and is this messenger from God or not, you must decide for yourself. It is you who is responsible for what you take up to hold as truth, not any so called pastor or elder or conference president, but it is your bid and make sure of it!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[doug yowell]

Well, here we go again. If this is such an important issue, and since both pro/con views all muster support for their views from the same sources, why not declare a fast and prayer and soul-searching to see what the Lord's will? Or do we still believe that He does? And put to rest this distracting and divisive issue to rest!!!

Wo supporters bring it up,wo opponents vote it down. WO supporters bring it up again, WO opponents vote it down again. WO proponents bring it up again, WO opponents vote it down again,WO proponents bring it up... If the church body cannot recognize WO's God sent validity then why the imperative to impose it on an unwilling family? If it causes unnecessary division within the family then who is responsible for that division? "If WO makes my brother to stumble, I will never again demand it, lest I make my brother stumble." (I Cor. 8:13)

[Alchemy]

Maybe someone could do a little word study on "laying on of hands". I did mine in the New King James Version.

[Alchemy]

The General Conference Session has put this issue to rest twice since 1980, but those who support WOPE won't stop until they force on everyone else.

Women's Ordination was defeated badly both times, by a 2 to 1 margin or more. But, those who support WO insist on shoving this issue on the majority who hold to the sound Biblical and historical position.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Well, here we go again. If this is such an important issue, and since both pro/con views all muster support for their views from the same sources, why not declare a fast and prayer and soul-searching to see what the Lord's will? Or do we still believe that He does? And put to rest this distracting and divisive issue to rest!!!

Wo supporters bring it up,wo opponents vote it down. WO supporters bring it up again, WO opponents vote it down again. WO proponents bring it up again, WO opponents vote it down again,WO proponents bring it up... If the church body cannot recognize WO's God sent validity then why the imperative to impose it on an unwilling family? If it causes unnecessary division within the family then who is responsible for that division? "If WO makes my brother to stumble, I will never again demand it, lest I make my brother stumble." (I Cor. 8:13)

This is the way the Holy Spirit works. This is how God leads us into truth, by us getting into these discussions studying and coming out with both sides and wanting to make our sides clearer and honestly listening to the other side and cretiqueing it. Therefore why should we gag the Holy Spirit if his working with us makes my brother stumble?

The point is the spirit that we use. If we keep studying the Bible, wanting to be fair to the Bible, and to maintain a spirit of love and and not develop the spirit of insulting and the attitude of 1888, then we are free to study.

From my study of the Bible, Biblical History and cultures and having heard language studies (although I don't have the background to double check the linquistics but can listen to arguments on both sides) I believe that the Bible teaches women's ordination, that Jesus practiced women's ordination and that Paul was a supporter of women's ordination and that the texts that critics used against women's ordination are addressed to specific probems that those specific congragations were facing (which yes, apply to the same situation today) and that when we apply it as arguments for women's ordination that we are taking it out of context just as if we are taking the texts about Jesus rising on the first day as proof for sundaykeeping, or insisting on the comma in Luke for proof that the dead go to heaven when they die, and using the rich man and Lazarus to support the traditional Catholic-Baptist hell.

While we need to watch our spirit not to have the spirit of 1888, we need not gag the Bible and reject the Holy Spirit's leading to make others happy.

[Kevin H]

Maybe someone could do a little word study on "laying on of hands". I did mine in the New King James Version.

Add to this study, studying about the debate in women's ordination in Judaism in the time of Jesus, and how they ordained in the time of Jesus and do we find any of this in the Bible?

We also need to study the theology of the blue thread in the garment in the ancient world.

Then of course there are the studies that I am aware of but do not have the background or grasp to share in how some of the language structures apperently indicate that there were ordained women priests in the Old Testament that is not as clear in our modern translations and our cultural background.

[Woody]

Yes indeed - the Holy Spirit keeps trying and trying and trying to speak to His Church. Will the church listen - or return to it's old unBiblical ways? That is the question.

[nuff sed]

Maybe it's NOT the "Holy Spirit" doing the speaking........... .Nuff Sed

[Woody]

Maybe it's NOT the "Holy Spirit" doing the speaking........... .Nuff Sed

Well that would be a first. I've never known the Holy Spirit to go contrary to scriptures on an issue.

[Tom Wetmore]

Maybe it's NOT the "Holy Spirit" doing the speaking........... .Nuff Sed

For which side?

[miz3]

The examples of Deborah and Huldah are a sure clincher straight from the Bible. No hocus pocus needed.

Let us be absolutely honest here. This is a discussion about who is "eligible" to hold God's Power in their hands.

Simon in the NT Acts wanted and tried to bribe with money to get it.

Men(males) within the SDA Church .org have exclusive rights to power now, and have had it for decades (since Ellen White's death at least). I can understand why the "male establishment", which has the vast majority of votes and political power in the SDA Church .org want to keep it their exclusive domain and why these same "males" keep voting it down.

What if we had a "real open discussion" within our churches (within North America) and then hold a North American vote of the pew sitters and not just the "male hierarchy". By real secret ballot.

God should have the only right to decide who holds His Power and speaks for Him just as God did in Bible times. In Bible times God called Moses, Samuel, Deborah, Huldah, Elijah, Mary Magdalene, the Samaritan woman at the well, etc. to be His Word Power on earth. God did not in Bible times make this the exclusive right of only males.

Who gave this right to choose to a few elite males in the SDA Church .org? Where in the Bible does it say that the SDA Church .org has this power to decide who speaks for God or not.

If however it is not a matter of who speaks for God, but rather who speaks for the human organization, then why not let the women be part of the hierarchy of the SDA Church .org and have the right as do the males to speak for the SDA Church .org with real power.

Let's face it, without Ellen White (oh, my a woman) this SDA Church .org would be nonexistent. Without a woman telling a male their would be no Sabbath Doctrine in the SDA Church .org.

If anything it seems as if males have hijacked the SDA Church .org power and now won't let women into the power circles. And this after woman played the crucial roles (and not men) in the survival and development of the SDA Church .org.

My oh my oh my.

[Woody]

Well miz3 - Women certainly have lead significantly in the development of our church. So, it's a good question to want to know how it happened that women have become so put down.

[M. T. Cross]

Anyone ever stop to think about all the people that could be reached by women pastors that would not be reached otherwise? In the end is that not your goal? Reaching people with your Gods message?

[Woody]

Good Point EC. But old traditions are still strong. Women have been put down for centuries and it has become addictive almost.

[phkrause]

Anyone ever stop to think about all the people that could be reached by women pastors that would not be reached otherwise? In the end is that not your goal? Reaching people with your Gods message?

Women pastors is not the point EC, its Women's Ordination that is! There are quite a few Women Pastors in the SDA church.

[Overaged]

The examples of Deborah and Huldah are a sure clincher straight from the Bible. No hocus pocus needed.

neither of these two were "ordained." Nor were they pastors. The Bible specifically calls them "prophetess." My oh my oh my.