bonnie Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 I have brought it up before and am still wondering. Where is the rush that is typically seen by many of you for forgiveness. Assume the very worst and that Zimmerman stalked and deliberately murdered Martin because he was black. Is the racial issue one that does not qualify for the forgiveness lectures? Many instances over the years the call for forgiveness and not revenge against some pretty terrible crimes has been posted. I remember well the Green River Killer discussion. A man that brutalized and murdered scores of women over a long length of time. My cousin was one of them. I don't know about the other victims but she left behind two infant daughters and a husband that was under suspicion for a long time. The scrutiny was more than justified but many rushed to convict him and he was innocent.I am not going to name names but some of you posting to the many threads concerning Zimmerman and the evils of racism have yet to post the same words. Concerning the Green River Killer, "God loves him as much as the victims" Revenge belongs to God" If you don't forgive you have lost eternal life" The guilty needs our prayers" are just a few. Does God love Zimmerman as much as he did Martin? Is Zimmerman's sin if guilty worse than that of a serial killer" If you don't forgive have you lost eternal life? Does revenge belong to God in this case? Does the guilty need your prayers? Or is it just select sins that qualify for the rush to judgment and condemnation? Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Woody Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 The issue here is transferance. Many want to portray Americans as racists because of the actions of a few. They then feel they should promote a policy of racism to balance things out. It blows my mind - that those who feel they are a victim of racism - end up applying racism to "balance" things. That is called revenge. They resist the call to join hands and put the past in the past. I guess you could call that holding onto a grudge. Very sad situation. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Guest Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 It blows my mind - that those who feel they are a victim of racism - end up applying racism to "balance" things. That is called revenge. I think you are wrong about those kinds of people Woody. I don't believe they are trying to balance anything. I believe they ARE the racists, in the truest sense of the word. They view EVERYTHING through a racial prism, and it never crosses their mind that they ARE the problem. They are clueless to it for the most part.
Moderators lazarus Posted April 4, 2012 Moderators Posted April 4, 2012 The issue here is transferance. Many want to portray Americans as racists because of the actions of a few. They then feel they should promote a policy of racism to balance things out. Americans? The discussion has not been about Americans v other nationalities. It's strange that you should say Americans? Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Moderators Bravus Posted April 4, 2012 Moderators Posted April 4, 2012 {cannot post anything that would not see him permabanned} Truth is important
Moderators lazarus Posted April 4, 2012 Moderators Posted April 4, 2012 Assume the very worst and that Zimmerman stalked and deliberately murdered Martin because he was black. Is the racial issue one that does not qualify for the forgiveness lectures? Seeking justice does not mean that he should not be forgiven. Many victims have forgiven the perpetrators but have worked to put them behind bars. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted April 4, 2012 Author Posted April 4, 2012 Seeking justice does not mean that he should not be forgiven. Many victims have forgiven the perpetrators but have worked to put them behind bars. That isn't really what I asked.I did not make any reference to seeking justice. I was referring to comments made frequently on Clubadventist by some of those posting their rush to judgement on Zimmerman because the dead person was black. I am not taking the time to go back and repost the many statements but I remember them well. If it is a pastor/teacher/church employee that is accused and the evidence is pretty conclusive the usual,"Don't rush to judgement","He who is without sin cast the first stone" Pray for the accused" If you don't forgive God will not forgive you,rarely is "seeking justice" the first concern. In the case of the Green River Killer,who killed scores of young women the response was the same. All of those comments are true and have merit,but those comments came first and far more frequently than "seeking justice" first. For those that assume the Zimmerman case is racially motivated it has been strangely silent on using those phrases. Instead it is more like "Well if it wasn't it could have been because we all know white people are racist Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members phkrause Posted April 4, 2012 Members Posted April 4, 2012 I for one would like to see those statements that actually say that "white people are racist", I don't recall that, maybe in some of the article's that were posted some journalist said that! phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Woody Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: Woody It blows my mind - that those who feel they are a victim of racism - end up applying racism to "balance" things. That is called revenge. I think you are wrong about those kinds of people Woody. I don't believe they are trying to balance anything. I believe they ARE the racists, in the truest sense of the word. They view EVERYTHING through a racial prism, and it never crosses their mind that they ARE the problem. They are clueless to it for the most part. Unfortunately Richard - You may be right. You may be right. NO. Amend that. As much as I hate to say it: YOU ARE RIGHT May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
bonnie Posted April 4, 2012 Author Posted April 4, 2012 I for one would like to see those statements that actually say that "white people are racist", I don't recall that, maybe in some of the article's that were posted some journalist said that! What has been under discussion for the past week or so. Zimmerman a white-hispanic killed Martin because of racial hatred. Emmett Till is brought up.That if I recall was racial hatred,white on black. Slavery-who held the slaves? Those that do not agree that this was racial have been called racists and bigots in more ways the one. Just who is being accused of racism from the politicians down to this forum.Certainly not those that made the rush to determine Martin was black,that's enough,it was racial hatred Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
SivartM Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Anyone who read my posts knows that I have said nothing close to "white people are racist". On the other hand, there have been numerous statements by others that black people are racist. "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Quote: the rush to determine Martin was black,that's enough,it was racial hatred This IS the issue. If the victim was black - then it was because of racial hatred. Done - Period - Convicted May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members phkrause Posted April 4, 2012 Members Posted April 4, 2012 Again I'd like to see those exact words from any member here on C/A? This is what has been implied! So I'd like to see those words! If its stated like that in a news article, than we here in this forum have no control over what the media implies, writes and thinks! So I for one would like to see the exact quotes from members ofrom C/A and not from a newspaper article? phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
SivartM Posted April 4, 2012 Posted April 4, 2012 Instead it is more like "Well if it wasn't it could have been because we all know white people are racist Nope, that's false. Personally, I suspect that Zimmerman was influenced by racial prejudice. I'm pretty sure he called Martin a "f***ing coon", which anyone who listens to the 911 call can hear. That's reason enough for me to suspect racial prejudice. Not to mention the actions of the police department, in assuming Zimmerman's story was true, not notifying the family, and doing toxicology tests on Martin instead of Zimmerman. It's perfectly reasonable to suspect racial prejudice influenced this case. On the other hand, you have people arguing that black people shouldn't be upset about this, and that they're being whiny, and painting everyone who does not assume Zimmerman's innocence as racist, violent black people. It's just another anti-Obama campaign, at best. Funny I haven't heard any sociologists defending your views on how black people are racist. Not to mention the evidence I have posted against that idea, which has only been received with people's anecdotes and personal feelings. We can't assume that Zimmerman is lying... but we can assume that the Gallup poll is. "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
bonnie Posted April 5, 2012 Author Posted April 5, 2012 Again I'd like to see those exact words from any member here on C/A? This is what has been implied! So I'd like to see those words! If its stated like that in a news article, than we here in this forum have no control over what the media implies, writes and thinks! So I for one would like to see the exact quotes from members ofrom C/A and not from a newspaper article? Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members phkrause Posted April 5, 2012 Members Posted April 5, 2012 I'm still not seeing the words that are being said were said????? phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
bonnie Posted April 5, 2012 Author Posted April 5, 2012 I'm still not seeing the words that are being said were said????? Please go back and reread.This is what I said........ Instead it is more like "Well if it wasn't it could have been because we all know white people are racist I enlarged the "more like" so it would not be missed this time. If we are not referring to white racism against blacks tell me what it is that is being referred to Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators Bravus Posted April 5, 2012 Moderators Posted April 5, 2012 No. You are 'reading in', not reading. I wrote the words you quoted, and know what they mean, and you are missing it. Truth is important
Moderators lazarus Posted April 5, 2012 Moderators Posted April 5, 2012 On the other hand, there have been numerous statements by others that black people are racist. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted April 5, 2012 Author Posted April 5, 2012 No. You are 'reading in', not reading. I wrote the words you quoted, and know what they mean, and you are missing it. Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Woody Posted April 5, 2012 Posted April 5, 2012 Oh but Laz - it's not just blacks that are racist. ANYone who applies the race card to Zimmerman before we know the facts - are racists. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators lazarus Posted April 5, 2012 Moderators Posted April 5, 2012 No one said "all white people are racist" no one said "most white people are racist". The comments that were made, at most were suggesting that white racism exists in this society and certainly there exists an institutional element to it. There is a belief amongst black and white that there was racial profiling in this case and things would have turned out differently if Martin was white and the shooter was black. No one should be surprised or angered at that suggestion. And of course black people can be racist. Let's answer that question before it is asked. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Moderators lazarus Posted April 5, 2012 Moderators Posted April 5, 2012 ANYone who applies the race card to Zimmerman before we know the facts - are racists. Don't even accept the notion of the race card having being applied. The use of the term "race card" is a device to ignore the issue. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Woody Posted April 5, 2012 Posted April 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: Woody ANYone who applies the race card to Zimmerman before we know the facts - are racists. Don't even accept the notion of the race card having being applied. The use of the term "race card" is a device to ignore the issue. Yes - the attempt is to go back to slavery. No I want to live in the here and now. What is our reality NOW? May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators lazarus Posted April 5, 2012 Moderators Posted April 5, 2012 Yes - the attempt is to go back to slavery. OK then. Quote: No I want to live in the here and now. What is our reality NOW? No you don't. You want to live in a reality where black people shut up about what truly concerns them. You want to have your own definition of racism. You want avoid the tough questions and white wash everything. Your conversation with me is reality on this board now. The only way your are going to get away from it is to stop posting. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
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