Why Is It?

[SivartM]

This thread is more fun than watching "12 Angry Men" Same issue, but now up to date.

[Woody]

Quote:

those who have the crazy idea that the majority tends to hold prejudice against minorities?

So now you are accusing the majority of racism?

Wow. This is really heating up. What proof do you have? I would like to see this. Shocking.

[SivartM]

Quote:

those who have the crazy idea that the majority tends to hold prejudice against minorities?

So now you are accusing the majority of racism?

Wow. This is really heating up. What proof do you have? I would like to see this. Shocking.

[Dr. Rich]

such was Jesus and His disciples. Being a minority is not a bad thing as the story about the narrow gate and road fortell.

[Woody]

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Ask most minority members.

Which minorities did you have in mind?

I'm a member of a number of minority groups.

[Woody]

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Being a minority is not a bad thing

Amen to that. And that includes ALL minority groups not just a few favored one.

[SivartM]

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Ask most minority members.

Which minorities did you have in mind?

I'm a member of a number of minority groups.

The ones that most feel the effects of prejudice. I'm a member of a few minority groups, and I see prejudice against minorities all the time.

[Woody]

Quote:

I'm a member of a few minority groups, and I see prejudice against minorities all the time.

I have no issue with you calling it when you 'see' it.

What I have issue with is when you don't see it and you clearly don't know - to be accusing someone of racism.

[SivartM]

I have no issue with you calling it when you 'see' it.

What I have issue with is when you don't see it and you clearly don't know - to be accusing someone of racism.

You are accusing black people of racism. So...?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

I have no issue with you calling it when you 'see' it.

What I have issue with is when you don't see it and you clearly don't know - to be accusing someone of racism.

You are accusing black people of racism. So...?

Like I said - when you "see" it call it.

[Woody]

There is a Turkish proverb that says, "A man who tells the truth will be chased from 9 villages."

[Kountzer]

They then use the excuse for their behavior by bringing up the fact that 'their' people suffered from slavery. In my book - what happened during slavery is no excuse to promote racism now.

What a croc of nonsense.

[bonnie]

"...their being racist hurts someone else such as Zimmerman."

Are you &*($^ing kidding me? Seriously! You want people to reserve judgement and then come out with this!

Martin is dead. As far as I know, Zimmerman is not even indicted.

Who is hurt here?

Insanity.

First there is very little to dertermine this was " racial murder"

If it isn't Zimmerman is definitely being hurt.

Yes,those with as little facts ,esepcially the limited facts presented in the beginning should with hold judgment.

Not all involved in a altercation such as this are indicted.

Some should be,Zimmerman may be based soley on the fact Martin was black

[bonnie]

Quote:

Wait, what? Lower class minorities are "those people"? Because your neighbors have had good opportunities--culturally, economically, socially, academically--and they have fairly comfortable lives and don't have to worry about discrimination, they have the right to look down on those who have not been so fortunate? They may look at you as an equal, but "those people" is never a term of equality. It is a dividing phrase.

This is probably your most interesting post to date. One of the reasons many of us don't put a lot of faith in adademia and sociologists is the myth that those that have improved their lives have had "good opportunities" thrown at them.

I don't know the previous lives of all of my neighbors,black/white/latinos/muslims.

A few I do. The family from Mexico that lives five houses down would laugh at the ignorance of this statement....Because your neighbors have had good opportunities--culturally, economically, socially, academically

He and his wife came here legally,his academic opportunity was zip.Never completed high school and suffered more than most that talk so glibly giving excuses why they can't succeed.I don't know personally the why but one neighbor that knows them intimately says he has the scars on his back to prove it.He did not speak english when he came,he had 20.00 american dollars in his pocket.When he first came his wife stayed in Mexico.He worked 16-18 hours a day 7 days a week.As soon as he could afford a old car that was also his "home" otherwise it was wherever he could find shelter.When he learned enough english he began working in construction.From there he eventually started his own company. He helps others coming from Mexico,letting them live in his house and working for him.

"Those people" that he will not employ or help are those that think they have a right to what others have.He is also very careful of the friends of his daughters,regardless of their skin color or where they are from.That is as it should be.So now he lives a modest comfortable life.

[Dr. Rich]

Good post Bonnie. One of my malato adopted sons married a Mexican (very cute I might add) girl and about two years ago, because of being underwater on their house, they moved in with us, 2 small girls and her dad too. The dad lives in one of my motor homes and he is disabled but works so hard it puts me to shame. My two little grand daughters by them are my joy and happeness as both seem to always have smiles on their faces. Both enjoy my 'stories' and love to be taken to Sabbath School! I have a found relationship with them and my son's wife's family, with brothers who own a construction company and work way too hard for my take on things.

Do you see them ever complain? Nope! They also enjoy life, fishing and family get togethers and such and it appears that they also have taken to enjoying MY Sabbath off of work-as it has made those Sabbaths a family get-to-gether times without having to worry about missing work. Yes, all races can get along IF they drop the past and respect each other no matter what color or race they are. Some of my closest friends are Asian and East Indian (as one of my adopted daughters is East Indian and as cute as a bug). And none of them seem to complain either about any problem with race--yes, they complain about the evils of the world, but not about race.

Being a professional trustee for over 20 years to world wide business trusts have also brought me to become close with many different ethnic groups and races and many of these people have become life long friends of mine. None of them ever complain about any race problem--just the evils of the world.

It is my opinion that most of the race problems are created within those who blame others for thier circumstances. It is and always was a blame game for them. Yes, socialology has created some of the blame game too.

[bonnie]

Wait, what? Lower class minorities are "those people"? Because your neighbors have had good opportunities--culturally, economically, socially, academically--and they have fairly comfortable lives and don't have to worry about discrimination, they have the right to look down on those who have not been so fortunate? They may look at you as an equal, but "those people" is never a term of equality. It is a dividing phrase.

The ones I was referring to do not intend that "those people" be a term of equality.

They don't want to be seen as the same.

Our closest neighbors are deaf.She was born deaf and he lost his hearing as a young child and has only 5% hearing.

She was sent to a home for "the deaf and feeble minded" when she was three years old. Saw her siblings and parents only on holidays and vacations.

Married young and badly to a very abusive man that could hear.

By the time she got out she had two very small children and no family to fall back on.Again,she would wonder what planet the people that say......good opportunities--culturally, economically, socially, academically come from.She was not going to raise her children on welfare.For eleven years she cleaned homes and office buildings at night.She took her children and sleeping bags with her at night so she wouldn't have to leave them with someone. She mentors in the deaf community. To her "those "people" are the ones that are steeped in self pity and expect every allowance to be made for them.Refusing to learn/work and be productive.After a time of trying she moves on from "those people" to those she believes she can help.

I am sure there are some in our neighborhood that have had advantages but for those that did,strangely enough they are no better/worse off than those that had the posters version of good opportunities--culturally, economically, socially, academically

I know many people"intimately" I might add that started with absolutely no advantage,rather every disadvantage,that are far better off today than those that grew up with advantages.Why do you suppose that is?

[bonnie]

And they have taught their children that racism isn't an issue? Maybe not in your nice little community, but it is a real problem, and the scorn of the higher classes on "those people" is part of what perpetuates it among "those people".

[CoAspen]

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The feminist movement as it exists is one of the worst things to happen to women.

[Woody]

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Zimmerman may be based soley on the fact Martin was black

I agree. But in my book - THAT IS RACISM.

[Woody]

Excellent comments Dr. Rich and Bonnie.

[Tom Wetmore]

... For goodness sake, whether he's guilty or not, there obviously needs to be a thorough investigation that doesn't consist of media coverage.

For all the railing against the media coverage and people's reaction to it, imagine what would have happened if the media had taken what some seem to be advocating here of waiting to see what will happen and what the police investigation might discover.

Had no attention been drawn to this whole incident, the initial haphazard police investigation would be all we have. As it is, very little investigation was actually done. Much forensic evidence was lost or compromised. Key witnesses were never interviewed.

Had the media not shown a bright light on the story, nothing further would have been done. No questions, except those in the mind of the grieving family and friends, would have been asked. The matter would have been swept neatly under the rug and life in Florida would have gone on without further incident. And nobody else would have known or cared.

But the local black community would have taken note of one more young black man dead without justice being done. And that injustice would have been added to the long history of past unresolved injustices. The facts of how it came about would have mattered little. That perception of the failure of justice weighs heavily, more so among those carrying the burden of it, no matter who they are ...

[SivartM]

One of the reasons many of us don't put a lot of faith in adademia and sociologists is the myth that those that have improved their lives have had "good opportunities" thrown at them.

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

... For goodness sake, whether he's guilty or not, there obviously needs to be a thorough investigation that doesn't consist of media coverage.

For all the railing against the media coverage and people's reaction to it, imagine what would have happened if the media had taken what some seem to be advocating here of waiting to see what will happen and what the police investigation might discover.

Had no attention been drawn to this whole incident, the initial haphazard police investigation would be all we have. As it is, very little investigation was actually done. Much forensic evidence was lost or compromised. Key witnesses were never interviewed.

Had the media not shown a bright light on the story, nothing further would have been done. No questions, except those in the mind of the grieving family and friends, would have been asked. The matter would have been swept neatly under the rug and life in Florida would have gone on without further incident. And nobody else would have known or cared.

But the local black community would have taken note of one more young black man dead without justice being done. And that injustice would have been added to the long history of past unresolved injustices. The facts of how it came about would have mattered little. That perception of the failure of justice weighs heavily, more so among those carrying the burden of it, no matter who they are ...

That's pure nonsense Tom! Evidence proved 100% that what Zimmerman did was lawful. "Haphazard police investigation"??? Says who? How much do you need to prove there was not enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with anything? The ONE eyewitness who saw Zimmerman's head being pounded into the sidewalk confirmed what Zimmerman said--and so did the grass stains and physical evidence. So who are you to now complain that the investigation was 'haphazard'? Were you there? Come on now, you are just contributing to the 'mess' that came about by a racist media. Dan Jackson, as President of NAD, jumped into this 'mess' with no agenda other than the race card. That's it.

Don't you have any feelings for Zimmerman as he is the real victim in this whole issue. So too are all of the would be people who might have stepped in to help someone being beaten, but now because of this mess, will shut their eyes and say nothing! Some day it could be you screaming for help; did your ever think of that?

[SivartM]

That's pure nonsense Tom! Evidence proved 100% that what Zimmerman did was lawful.

What ever happened to reserving judgment until we had all the facts? Your "100% proof" is one eyewitness (eyewitnesses are not infallible and often contradict each other, so their word should never be taken as absolute proof) and grass stains?

Funny you brought up 12 Angry Men. All of the evidence pointed against the defendant, but the jurors all realized that there was a lot they didn't know.

[bonnie]

Apparently your neighbors know better than people who actually study these things. Sorry, but I think "book learning" (or education as some call it) is a better source of knowledge than anecdotes about your neighbors.