Fall of the Ottoman Empire on 1840

[mac]

Hi,

SDA church claimes that Ottoman Empire fell on 11. august 1840, exactly as predicted by Litch.

I am having a hard time finding proof of this.

Wikipedia states that Ottoman Empire ended on 1923 and does not mention 11. august 1840 at all. I know that The Bible does not always focus on politics, so are there any neutral sources that can confirm that Ottoman Empire really surrended to Christian powers on that date?

mac

[mac]

While searching for information I also stumbled on this site: http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw52.htm

They claim that Litch himself later admitted that he was wrong.

[12tribes]

It is written in the Great controversy, if it is wrong then the Great controversy is wrong. It is written so it did happen, Satan will do anything to attack, to create doubt.

[mac]

It is written in the Great controversy, if it is wrong then the Great controversy is wrong. It is written so it did happen, Satan will do anything to attack, to create doubt.

What?

What creates more doubt, a group who can admit mistakes or group who denies evidence? :)

[mac]

It must be historically proven. Otherwise it's worth nothing.

Why do muslims think Allah is God?

Because it is written in Quran.

How do we know they are wrong?

Because there is no proof.

[cheddar]

While searching for information I also stumbled on this site: http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw52.htm

They claim that Litch himself later admitted that he was wrong.

This absolutely true and has been discussed on many threads.

The historical interpretation of prophecy is so nonsensical and full of errors but widely accepted because of books like the great controversy.

Adventists have let Ellen White do all their thinking for so long that the weight of bible evidence has no effect whatsoever.

She did say something that was prophetic, however. She said there would be a great shaking that comes to the adventist church. Unfortunately at the time she never realized that the shaking would be all about her and her many errors.

[Lysimachus]

She did say something that was prophetic, however. She said there would be a great shaking that comes to the adventist church. Unfortunately at the time she never realized that the shaking would be all about her and her many errors.

Many Old Testament prophets spoke of great events about to take place in their day as well, and they died and it never happened. They did not realize that the reason why the predictions did not come through was because the people delayed His comings. Ellen White's predictions on many issues, concerning the shaking, were conditional in relation to how soon it would be. If people would get their act together, and press together, and unite, and get sin out of their lives, they would take place "soon" as she was shown. But, if they didn't, then they would occur much later--which is why later she was shown that we may have to remain in this world "MANY MORE YEARS", because of insubordination.

The more people continue to reject her warnings, the moer people continue to disqualify our prophetic foundations, the more they delay His coming, and the more rotten they make the Church.

thus, when we start criticizing Ellen White's writings, we become partakers of those who are delaying our Lord's coming, and we become the "fulfillment" of the prophecy of why we hae to remain here many more years.

Because we are unwilling to submit!

[Lysimachus]

I have been exchanging emails back and forth with Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer on the August 11, 1840 issue.

The good news folks, is we have learned that this prophecy is more accurate than we possibly even fathomed.

Josiah Litch also threw out 1844 as well, so we can't go by that. We have to go by what God originally lead the movement to believe, despite them turning back on it. Waggoner and Jones accepted Pantheism, and gave up their previous convictions well--does that mean that their messages on Righteousness by Faith were wrong?

Of course not.

Same issue with Josiah Litch. Josiah Litch, unfortunately, did not have the access to all the primary sources like we do today. Had he had these sources, I doubt he would have given up his original findings.

To find all the answers necessary, I recommend the following website:

www.AdventistDistinctiveMessages.com

New evidenced has surfaced to the forefront that is already shaking up the theologians:

The Mystery of the Apocalyptic Trumpets Unraveled - Biblical and historical certainties you will need for the world's last crisis - by Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer, Ph.D -- 2012 -- 75 pages

Dr. Alberto Treiyer's older book which FEW have read, or have had time to read:

Seals and Trumpets - Biblical and Historical Studies - by Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer, Ph.D. -- 2005 -- 422 pages

[Lysimachus]

Another excellent article:

Symposium on the Trumpets of Revelation - by Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer - 3 ABN February 18-20, 2011

The meat of the issue begins on page 5, relating to August 11, 1840.

A response to Ministry magazine's article entitled: "Issues in the Interpretation of the Seven Trumpets of Revelation (Jan 2012)."

Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer also emailed me the following information:

Concerning the date of July 27, 1299, the article prepared by our church in 1944 (Ministry), is valuable. I studied it carefully and, as many, I believe that it is a good and sounded answer. See it in:

Part 2 of Grace Amadon's two-part article on July 27, 1299 at http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/MIN/MIN19440701-V17-07__B.pdf

Concerning what happened in January 6, 1449, and what was expected to happen in August 1840, you will have to read my books where I documented with non-Adventist historians even the importance of the date 1840 till today.

Concerning the astronomic conversion of the Julian Calendar to the Gregorian Calendar we have to recognize that, if we want to keep the 15 days (one prophetic hour), something not necessary if we chose another translation of the prophecy, that the right date in the Gregorian Calendar should be August 23, 1840. Those who take into account this fact reason in the following way:

Some skeptics notice that after August 11, the Turkish envoy again met with Egypt, including ambassadors of the Christian coalition on August 12. Then there was a ten-day moratorium ending August 22 and the coalition's ultimatum was to be enforced on Sunday, August 23, 1840. This, they say, is the actual date the Ottoman's legally fell under their Gregorian calendar. The Julian calendar was in effect when Nicomedia was invaded. Computerized calendar converters subtract 12 days from the Gregorian date of August 23, converting back to a Julian date of August 11, 1840. Events on either date will satisfy requirement for fulfillment of the prophecy.

See www.revelado.org/islam.htm

The practical issue is that the prophecy was fulfilled in 1449 - 1840, and taking into consideration a sliding scale principle, in 1453 - 1844. You have to read my books to see the issue...

[Note: Just let me tell you that I don't agree with some points of the article www.revelado.org/islam.htm , especially the comment of the author at the end concerning a significant presumable role of the Muslims at the end. The prophecy of Dan 11 has nothing to do with them. The Muslim time was over from 1840/1844...]

[Lysimachus]

Key issues in the confrontation

1) The historical fulfillment of some trumpets

The traditional argument against historicism from the futurist perspective was always the presumable lack of historical evidence that could confirm the prophetic fulfillment. This was not an exception in the 3 ABN Symposium. In that point, the futurist brothers that attended the meeting were joined by those who held the spiritualist/idealist views. It was evident that both currents needed such a denial of historicism to replace them by their theories, by philosophies instead of concrete historical facts. In order to deny the historicist interpretation, they ridiculed Uriah Smith as much as they could, and stated, emphatically, that the date of August 11, 1840, was not fulfilled and had nothing to do with the prophecy of the sixth trumpet. Again and again was emphasized that even Josiah Litch abandoned this interpretation sometime later in his life.

Since E. G. White confirmed the fulfillment of the time-period of the sixth trumpet as having taken place on that specific date (which implies her acceptance of the interpretation of the dates of the fifth trumpet), her statement was also dismissed by both the futurist and spiritualist views. Three different arguments were employed to disqualify her statements. On one hand, they affirmed that the presumable fulfillment referred by E. G. White in GC 334-5, had to do with the prediction of Josiah Litch, not with the prophecy of Revelation. Secondly, it was argued that E. G. White was not a specialist in history, according to a testimony of her son that Jon Paulien read. Third, nothing important for the Turkish empire would have taken place at that moment.

From the historicist viewpoint, we answered to the first argument that the testimony of E. G. White refers unequivocally to the fulfillment of the fifth and sixth trumpets. She said, literally, "in the year 1840 another remarkable fulfillment of prophecy excited widespread interest... The event exactly fulfilled the prediction." She dealt not only with the prediction of Josiah Litch, but also with the "fulfillment of prophecy" (that of the sixth trumpet).

To the second point, we replied that we may agree with her son in the fact that some details in her description of different events in history that she included in her book The Great Controversy, were not received directly from heaven, but drawn from secular historians. But the history that she brought to our view, as well as her commentaries, had to do with what God revealed her by "the Spirit of God... to present it as to shed a light on the fast-approaching struggle of the future..., in such a manner as to trace the unfolding of the great testing truths that at different periods have been given to the world..." (GC xi).

Dr. Jud Lake brought out also in the panel that, in the same chapter where E. G. White deals with the fulfillment of the sixth trumpet in 1840, she included the meteor fall of 1833 that endorsed the belief in the imminent coming of the Lord. This was another sign of the time of the end foretold in the sixth seal, that had just taken place. She included this event in that chapter to confirm the well founded date of 1844 for the prophecy of Dan 8:14. [An effort was done to ridicule the importance of the date 1833, as well as the earthquake of 1755 in Lisbon, which revealed a lack of knowledge of historical facts that no one took time to answer in the symposium. See my book, The Seals and the Trumpets (2005), 177-188].

In addition, E. G. White as well as the millerites and our pioneers were not searching in history to determine what happened in 1840. They were witnessing at what was taking place before their eyes, and their testimony may be today confirmed by secular modern historians. I brought out to the audience some of the impressive amount of testimonies that I included in my book The Seals and the Trumpets (2005), 285-360. Uriah Smith did not invent anything. He kept the legacy that we received from the Protestant Reformation from the seventeenth century to the nineteenth century, including the millerites. We may affirm today the same thing by quoting the testimony of secular historians. Their evaluation of history confirms the fulfillment of all the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation, not only that of the trumpets.

When one of the brothers wanted to bring the fact that the Turkish Empire did not fall in 1840, we answered that this is not what we were saying, this was not what the millerites were saying, this is not what E. G. White really said, and this is not what was expected to happen. That date marked a turning point in the Turkish empire that was shown in its submission to the high powers of Europe, which continues today with the submission of the Muslim countries to the legality of the United Nations...

To the additional argument that Josiah Litch abandoned the interpretation of the year 1840 as being fulfilled in the precise date he gave, I replied that he also dropped the date 1844 which we are still keeping because the date was well chosen. We may understand him because he was disappointed that the Lord did not come when He was expected to come. But after realizing what was expected to happen in 1844, according to the Bible, our forefathers in prophecy and mission kept all those dates, as we do today. Because this is the truth.

Source: Symposium on the Trumpets of Revelation - by Dr. Alberto R. Treiyer, 3 ABN Frebruary 18-20, 2011, pages, 5-6.

[Lysimachus]

While searching for information I also stumbled on this site: http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/egw52.htm

They claim that Litch himself later admitted that he was wrong.

Their problem is that they are looking at everything from a wrong perspective. This article is not worth my weight in gold. See Treiyer's research to look at these prophecies from the REAL perspective that the pioneers were looking at it from.

[Kevin H]

First of all Mrs. White did not come out and say that this was the fulfillment of the prophecy or a correct application of the text. What she was doing was pointing out how God was leading the Millerites and how Elder Litch said that this is how he understood the text and that something happened that day that was impressive enought for several athiests to come to the Lord. While there are those who argue for this interpetation of the trumpets, others argue with some quotes such as "Trump after Trump must sound, plague after plague must fall" (and in a 1976 campmeeting series on last day events from Southern New England Campmeeting there were another other quotes presented) that have caused some to indicate that Mrs. White sees the trumpets as future. Specifically the horrible events just before the close of probation that will pressure people to make their final choices and then the plages are the horrible results after probation is closed.

Something happened that was credible enought to make Athiests repent and have people take the Millerite movement seriously, yet with enough problems to encourage us to keep studying. God is like that.

[phkrause]

First of all Mrs. White did not come out and say that this was the fulfillment of the prophecy or a correct application of the text. What she was doing was pointing out how God was leading the Millerites and how Elder Litch said that this is how he understood the text and that something happened that day that was impressive enought for several athiests to come to the Lord. While there are those who argue for this interpetation of the trumpets, others argue with some quotes such as "Trump after Trump must sound, plague after plague must fall" (and in a 1976 campmeeting series on last day events from Southern New England Campmeeting there were another other quotes presented) that have caused some to indicate that Mrs. White sees the trumpets as future. Specifically the horrible events just before the close of probation that will pressure people to make their final choices and then the plages are the horrible results after probation is closed.

Something happened that was credible enought to make Athiests repent and have people take the Millerite movement seriously, yet with enough problems to encourage us to keep studying. God is like that.

[Lysimachus]

I guess the question is, how seriously do we take her wording?

Her statements go as follows:

• In the year 1840 another remarkable fulfillment of prophecy excited widespread interest. Two years before, Josiah Litch, one of the leading ministers preaching the second advent, published an exposition of Revelation 9, predicting the fall of the Ottoman Empire. According to his calculations, this power was to be overthrown "in A.D. 1840, sometime in the month of August;" and only a few days previous to its accomplishment he wrote: "Allowing the first period, 150 years, to have been exactly fulfilled before Deacozes ascended the throne by permission of the Turks, and that the 391 years, fifteen days, commenced at the close of the first period, it will end on the 11th of August, 1840, when the Ottoman power in Constantinople may be expected to be broken. And this, I believe, will be found to be the case."--Josiah Litch, in Signs of the Times, and Expositor of Prophecy, Aug. 1, 1840. {GC 334.4}

Then right after, she makes the following statement which reveals that she is not just stating an event that helped to "bolster" the Millerite movement, but that the historical events that unfolded "exactly fulfilled the prediction":

• "At the very time specified, Turkey, through her ambassadors, accepted the protection of the allied powers of Europe, and thus placed herself under the control of Christian nations. The event exactly fulfilled the prediction. When it became known, multitudes were convinced of the correctness of the principles of prophetic interpretation adopted by Miller and his associates, and a wonderful impetus was given to the advent movement.” {GC 335.1}

It is difficult for me to interpret her wording to mean anything but that the event was truly a "fulfillment" of the prophecy. She was not stating that this is how the Millerites viewed it, or how Josiah Litch viewed, it, but she is stating her opinion emphatically, that it was an "exact fulfillment".

The question is, was she truly inspired by God? If so, why would God allow her to make such a strong and definitive statement? I would say that Treiyer's work deserves greater recognition within Adventism. His recent material is 2005 and 2012 material on the Seals and the Trumpets. My advice is that we start buying these books, and studying.

[Kevin H]

But we must not forget that Mrs. White has that one famous quote and several not so known quotes where she is placing the trumpets in the future. Adventists have been baffeled by how she has the one quote that you quoted above, yet also has the other quotes placing the trumpets in the future to around the time of the plagues and people try to explain away either one or the other. We need to continue to study and be fair to how we understand. I told you, having listened to arguments from both sides which arguments made the most sense for me.

[Lysimachus]

But we must not forget that Mrs. White has that one famous quote and several not so known quotes where she is placing the trumpets in the future. Adventists have been baffeled by how she has the one quote that you quoted above, yet also has the other quotes placing the trumpets in the future to around the time of the plagues and people try to explain away either one or the other. We need to continue to study and be fair to how we understand. I told you, having listened to arguments from both sides which arguments made the most sense for me.

The idea is that each of the trumpets announce a plague. Picture over-arching lines from each trumpet in history pointing to one plague in the future. So each plague in a sense is a fulfillment of each of the trumpets that announced it.

Dr. Waterhouse at Andrews University spent many years teaching my dad and Pastor Stephen Bohr these issues. Was very deep and insightful. He knew his stuff.

The trumpets are past, but they point to the future. Like a type announcing an antitype.

But it is also debatable at how Ellen White was using the word "trumpets", or "trump after trump". Was she speaking of the 7 trumpets specifically? That is the question. We do not know for sure. At any rate, the future will like be a miniature of the past--repeated, but compacted in a short amount of time.

[Kevin H]

Yes indeed Lysimachus, that is also more of what I am coming to understand. The prophecies had local applications, but cycle around. Historisism has been a way of applying it across history, yet there are things that could have been fulfilled in the 70th week if Jesus had been accepted and it will come around again as we approach the end of time and some fulfilled at the end of the thousand years.

[mac]

Thanks, Lysimachus, for those links. I will have a look at them.

However they all seam to be SDA sources or sources who do favour that this prophecy really is in The Bible.

What I want to know, is that is there a NEUTRAL source that confirms anything happening on 11. august 1840.

If God put a prophecy in The Bible He will also take care it can be proven with outside sources. Because in the end - it's there not for SDA, it's there for all the others and we must tell this to them. So we need neutral sources not SDA writings.

Anyway, I did a little research and found a few documents:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CGgQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sdadefend.com%2FMINDEX-T%2FThe%2520Truth%2520about%2520Turkey.pdf&ei=nfuOT9fCNPPa4QT31O3KDw&usg=AFQjCNE6ziRXxVeTgwsFvR2pmgij4HDNYw

A quote from this doc:

"It was only after rather protracted negotiations in which France was not a party—and her interest in Egypt led to independent negotiations with Turkey—that an agreement was reached by the four Powers of Europe: Russia, Britain, Prussia, and Austria.

This agreement was prepared by the Powers in London, England in August 1840, and signed on August 11 - the date predicted by Josiah Litch two years earlier in 1838—before the crisis leading to it had started! The Treaty of London on August 11, 1840, in which this agreement was registered, began by stating (Article I) that the Contracting Powers had come to an agree- ment with Turkey as to what terms Mehemet Ali should receive. And that (Article II) in case Mehemet refused to accept them, they, the Powers, would undertake to force him to do so. “Their Majesties engaged to take, at the request of the Sultan, measures concerted and settled between them, in order to carry that arrangement into effect.” Article III states that, if Constantinople is threatened by invasion, the Powers will send help. And Article IV safeguards the Sultan’s position in the future, in case Russia and the Western Powers should—for this one time—have to send their armed forces through the Straits.

These two articles (III and IV) are fundamental in the history of the international law of the Straits.

You will find the complete text in British and Foreign State Papers, Vol. 28, p. 342."

So I looked up that document: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=clYfA...p;q&f=false

Pages 342-348 are in French. Can anyone translate them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_London_%281840%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian%E2%80%93Ottoman_War_%281839%E2%80%931841%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shihab_family

It is clear, that Ottoman Empire really joined up with Christian powers that summer. For me the question is the difference between 15. July and 11. August.

There must be more historical records about what really happened 15. July - 11. August 1840. Some old newspaper etc.

[cheddar]

The good news folks, is we have learned that this prophecy is more accurate than we possibly even fathomed.

I would like to see the evidence please! Not only for the 6th trumpet but for all the trumpets being fulfilled in the past.

1) The trumpets don’t even begin until the 144K are sealed (Rev. 7) and the 5th trumpet affects people who don’t have ‘the seal of God in their foreheads’. Please show how the seal of God was in place during the 1300’s.

2) The angel who ascends out of the bottomless pit is identified as Satan not the muslims. In Rev. 9 Satan is released and in Rev. 20 he is placed back into the bottomless pit – pretty straight forward.

3) What is your interpretation of the phrase ‘an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year’. Do you see this as 391 days(years) or a specific point in time?

I actually read Josiah Litch’s book ‘a complete harmony of Daniel and the Apocalypse’. You can still find copies in the publishing house libraries and the university libraries. I can’t even remember everything he said it’s been so long since I read it but he’s a good example of someone who started out as a historicist and after careful examination realized that it does not fit the scriptures.

Prophecy is not cut and dry and can be seen in many different ways. I admit that and I think most others would as well. But if you are going to say that all the trumpets were fulfilled in the past when the evidence points in the opposite direction – that’s sad and shows you’re not a seeker of truth.

[Kevin H]

I see Historisism based on proper principles and how God lead us through history with what the Holy Spirit saw what we needed to know. However this also needs to be tempered by us having a two pronged gift to continue to lead us. First is the rediscovery of the ancient world. When Revelation was first read in church that Sabbath after it came from Patmos people did not leave saying "The Pope is coming, the Pope is coming!" Nor did they scratch their heads saying "That was strange, I don't know what it means" but it was events that they recognized as happening in their day, and how the Lord could have come if they would "Preach again" and from this the issues are going to cycle around again and we will meet them in the end.

As for day-hour, our first place to figure this out is the immediate context, second if we cannot find it there do we look elsewhere in scripture.

Linguists and historianians are pointing out that things happening in "a day in an hour", was the way writings in that culture meant a very short time, just as thousand years does not need to be the number thousand, but means "All the time needed" coming from say teachers of the day who either was in a hurry to teach something, or was not in a hurry and was willing to take what was necessary to have the students really master the subject. Thus the day and hour text of the plagues falling are interpeted by the immediate context and thus does not fit the requirements for the day-year principle. Also, while it did a good job of helping those living under the 5th head to be aware of where they were living, but I am not fully comfortable with our applications of the 1260 days being in the day-year principle, as it is more of a reference to things that would have been had Jesus been accepted when he was here, which was not fulfilled due to Jesus not being accepted and thus will cycle around again, and since it is built on the last week of years (the Dispensationalists are wrong because they cut off the last week of years and stick on the end of time, we are correct in having the 70 weeks together. But seeing that there was still some things from the last week that was not fulfilled will be fulfilled in our last days and at the end of the thousand years.)

[Lysimachus]

I would like to see the evidence please! Not only for the 6th trumpet but for all the trumpets being fulfilled in the past.

[Lysimachus]

I see Historisism based on proper principles and how God lead us through history with what the Holy Spirit saw what we needed to know. However this also needs to be tempered by us having a two pronged gift to continue to lead us. First is the rediscovery of the ancient world. When Revelation was first read in church that Sabbath after it came from Patmos people did not leave saying "The Pope is coming, the Pope is coming!" Nor did they scratch their heads saying "That was strange, I don't know what it means" but it was events that they recognized as happening in their day, and how the Lord could have come if they would "Preach again" and from this the issues are going to cycle around again and we will meet them in the end.

As for day-hour, our first place to figure this out is the immediate context, second if we cannot find it there do we look elsewhere in scripture.

Linguists and historianians are pointing out that things happening in "a day in an hour", was the way writings in that culture meant a very short time, just as thousand years does not need to be the number thousand, but means "All the time needed" coming from say teachers of the day who either was in a hurry to teach something, or was not in a hurry and was willing to take what was necessary to have the students really master the subject. Thus the day and hour text of the plagues falling are interpeted by the immediate context and thus does not fit the requirements for the day-year principle. Also, while it did a good job of helping those living under the 5th head to be aware of where they were living, but I am not fully comfortable with our applications of the 1260 days being in the day-year principle, as it is more of a reference to things that would have been had Jesus been accepted when he was here, which was not fulfilled due to Jesus not being accepted and thus will cycle around again, and since it is built on the last week of years (the Dispensationalists are wrong because they cut off the last week of years and stick on the end of time, we are correct in having the 70 weeks together. But seeing that there was still some things from the last week that was not fulfilled will be fulfilled in our last days and at the end of the thousand years.)

Keep in mind that those lists of accomplishments were:

1) A list of things that the Jews were to accomplish within 70 weeks. 70 weeks were portioned out for them to accomplish those things, but they did not.

2) Jesus fulfilled where they failed.

So thus the 70th week has met it's fulfillment, completely. Those things that Christ fulfilled will now be fulfilled in us, but the 70th week will not be that time it is done in anymore.

The 1260 days and the day-year principle is more solid than it has ever been. New scholarship has settled it in stone. See Heidi Heik's materials at www.TheSourceHH.org

The deadly wound was inflicted in 1798, and this wound is healing and the Papal Power will resurge one more time. Let's keep things in a simple perspective, and not try to complicate it too much.

When we start questioning our old-land-marks, we're left wandering out to sea without chart or compass, and then we start losing our ability to know how to follow any proper hermeneutics eventually, until we reach the point where we're back to square 1--a huge mess on our hands, and everyone arriving at different interpretations.

Some of the things you're saying sound like Fowler. I'll tell you right now, Fowler's interpretations are a confusing mess. I sat in his sermons and was not impressed one iota.

[cheddar]

You're assuming that the ones sealed in Revelation 9 are the 144K. They are not. This is not the "Seal of the Living God". This is just a "seal"--the same seal of the Holy Spirit mentioned in Ephesians 1 and 4. Deep exegetical studies have been done to prove this.

[skyblue888]

I guess the question is, how seriously do we take her wording?

Her statements go as follows:

• In the year 1840 another remarkable fulfillment of prophecy excited widespread interest. Two years before, Josiah Litch, one of the leading ministers preaching the second advent, published an exposition of Revelation 9, predicting the fall of the Ottoman Empire. According to his calculations, this power was to be overthrown "in A.D. 1840, sometime in the month of August;" and only a few days previous to its accomplishment he wrote: "Allowing the first period, 150 years, to have been exactly fulfilled before Deacozes ascended the throne by permission of the Turks, and that the 391 years, fifteen days, commenced at the close of the first period, it will end on the 11th of August, 1840, when the Ottoman power in Constantinople may be expected to be broken. And this, I believe, will be found to be the case."--Josiah Litch, in Signs of the Times, and Expositor of Prophecy, Aug. 1, 1840. {GC 334.4}

Then right after, she makes the following statement which reveals that she is not just stating an event that helped to "bolster" the Millerite movement, but that the historical events that unfolded "exactly fulfilled the prediction":

• "At the very time specified, Turkey, through her ambassadors, accepted the protection of the allied powers of Europe, and thus placed herself under the control of Christian nations. The event exactly fulfilled the prediction. When it became known, multitudes were convinced of the correctness of the principles of prophetic interpretation adopted by Miller and his associates, and a wonderful impetus was given to the advent movement.” {GC 335.1}

It is difficult for me to interpret her wording to mean anything but that the event was truly a "fulfillment" of the prophecy. She was not stating that this is how the Millerites viewed it, or how Josiah Litch viewed, it, but she is stating her opinion emphatically, that it was an "exact fulfillment".

The question is, was she truly inspired by God? If so, why would God allow her to make such a strong and definitive statement? I would say that Treiyer's work deserves greater recognition within Adventism. His recent material is 2005 and 2012 material on the Seals and the Trumpets. My advice is that we start buying these books, and studying.

I dont know about these authors but what you have stated from Mrs. White is absolutely correct.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: cheddar

3) What is your interpretation of the phrase ‘an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year’. Do you see this as 391 days(years) or a specific point in time?

391 years.

__________

391 years and 15 days to be more precise!

sky