RE: Father, Son & Holy Ghost....3 gods.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gustave

Ellen White avoided using the word Trinity because she was anti-Trinitarian...

An individual can't claim belief in a doctrine while at the same time.

...Making feverish affirmations that are the Antithesis of that same doctrine.

So now that we know what she didn't believe, what exactly did she teach about the nature of God?

Here it is:

Brother M.L Andreason was an Arian who after reading the Desire of Ages had a life changing experience that changed his view of God which led him into the truth about the belief in the Trinity or the Godhead of Three Co-Eternal Persons. "In her own handwriting I saw the statements which I was sure she had not written—could not have written. Especially was I struck with the now familiar quotation in Desire of Ages, page 530: “In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived.” This statement at that time was revolutionary and compelled a complete revision of my former view—and that of the denomination— on the deity of Christ." Testimony of M. L. Andreasen, Oct. 15, 1953, White Estate Document File 961.

The eternal heavenly dignitaries—God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit—arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy, ... would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin.—Manuscript 145, 1901.

The work of salvation is not a small matter, but so vast that the highest authorities are taken hold of by the expressed faith of the human agent. The eternal Godhead—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost—is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent, ... confederating the heavenly powers with the human that man may become, through heavenly efficiency, partakers of the divine nature and workers together with Christ. Manuscript, May 14, 1904, p. 45, “That They All May Be One.

The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.—Counsels on Health, 222. Those who proclaim the third angel’s message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, “It is written.” Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God’s believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.—The Southern Watchman, February 23, 1904, p. 122.

In whose name are we baptized? In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost —the three highest powers in the heavenly courts. They pledge themselves in our behalf. We may claim the strength and the victory that they may give us as we stand before the world, not to ape its fashions, not to study the fashion books, but to walk humbly with our God. “Ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory” [Colossians 3:3]. Then do not dishonor your Saviour by lightness, or trifling, or by seeking for the things of the world.Sermons and Talks Volume Two, Page 287

I am instructed to say, The sentiments of those who are searching for advanced scientific ideas are not to be trusted. Such representations as the following are made: "The Father is as the light invisible: the Son is as the light embodied; the Spirit is the light shed abroad." "The Father is like the dew, invisible vapor; the Son is like the dew gathered in beauteous form; the Spirit is like the dew fallen to the seat of life." Another representation: "The Father is like the invisible vapor; the Son is like the leaden cloud; the Spirit is rain fallen and working in refreshing power." {Ev 614.1}

We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven,—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost,—and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God.— Evangelism, 617.

Those who have by baptism given to God a pledge of their faith in Christ, and their death to the old life of sin, have entered into covenant relation with God. The three powers of the Godhead, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are pledged to be their strength and their efficiency in their new life in Christ Jesus. Australasian Union Conference Record October 7, 1907

Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly King.—Testimonies for the Church 6:91.

When the Christian takes his baptismal vow, divine help is pledged to him. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit stand ready to work in his behalf. God places at his command the resources of heaven, that he may be an over comer. His own power is small, but God is omnipotent, and God is his helper. Daily he is to make known his wants at the throne of grace. By faith and trust, by availing himself of the resources provided, he will come off more than conqueror. Why, then, should not those who are fighting against the powers of darkness, move forward with faith and courage? God and Christ and the Holy Spirit are on their side....The Upward Look, Page 173

Some teach that the Holy Spirit is only the personal presence of Christ and the Father. But notice not only does the Father and Son come and make their abode within us but so does the Holy Spirit. That shows us not only does the Jesus and the Father come to us through the Spirit but the Spirit comes to us equally as they do!

This is the true test—the doing of the words of Christ. And it is the evidence of the human agent’s love to Jesus, and he that doeth His will giveth to the world the practical evidence of the fruit he manifests in obedience, in purity, and in holiness of character. “If a man love me, he will keep my words; and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” (John 15:23.) We, that is, the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, [will come] and make our abode in him. Manuscript Releases Volume Eight [Nos. 526-663], Page 408 MR No. 643-Faith and Works

Those who claim to be Christ’s followers pledge themselves to obedience at the time of their baptism. When they go down into the water, they pledge themselves in the presence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost that they will henceforth be dead unto the world and its temptations, and that they will arise from the watery grave to walk in newness of life, even a life of obedience to God’s requirements.Sermons and Talks Volume Two, Page 228 Manuscript 80, 1903 [sermon given at the St. Helena Sanitarium Chapel, Sanitarium, California, Sabbath, August 1, 1903.]

"In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, man is laid in his watery grave, buried with Christ in baptism, and raised from the water to live the new life of loyalty to God The three great powers in heaven are witnesses; they are invisible but present."—Manuscript 57, 1900 (6 Bible Commentary, 1074).

“The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, powers infinite and omniscient, receive those who truly enter into covenant relation with God. They are present at every baptism, to receive the candidates who have renounced the world and have received Christ into the soul temple. These candidates have entered into the family of God, and their names are inscribed in the Lamb’s book of life.”—Manuscript 27, 1900

In the place of devoting your powers to theorizing, Christ has given you a work to do. His commission is, Go throughout the world and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.... There is to be the imprint of the sacred name, baptizing the believers in the name of the threefold powers in the heavenly world. The human mind is impressed in this ceremony, the beginning of the Christian life. It means very much. The work of salvation is not a small matter, but so vast that the highest authorities are taken hold of by the expressed faith of the human agency.... The three great and glorious heavenly characters are present on the occasion of baptism. All the human capabilities are to be henceforth consecrated powers to do service for God in representing the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost upon whom they depend. All heaven is represented by these three in covenant relation with the new life.—Ms 45, 1904, pp. 9, 10. (“That They All May Be One,” May 14, 1904.)Released March 11, 1975. Manuscript Releases Volume Six [Nos. 347-418], Page 389

Here is where the work of the Holy Ghost comes in, after your baptism. You are baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are raised up out of the water to live henceforth in newness of life—to live a new life. You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. You are to reveal that you are dead to sin; your life is hid with Christ in God. Hidden “with Christ in God,”—wonderful transformation. This is a most precious promise. When I feel oppressed, and hardly know how to relate myself toward the work that God has given me to do, I just call upon the three great Worthies, and say; You know I cannot do this work in my own strength. You must work in me, and by me and through me, sanctifying my tongue, sanctifying my spirit, sanctifying my words, and bringing me into a position where my spirit shall be susceptible to the movings of the Holy Spirit of God upon my mind and character.Manuscript Releases Volume Seven [Nos. 419- 525], Page 268

There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.—Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)

“The Holy Spirit always leads to the written word. The Holy Spirit is a person; for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God.” (Ellen G. White, Manuscript Releases, Volume 7, MR No. 487, 1906...)

The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."--Manuscript 20, 1906. {Ev 617.1}

The Holy Spirit indites all genuine prayer. I have learned to know that in all my intercessions, the Spirit intercedes for me and for all saints whose intercessions are according to the will of God, never contrary to His will. “The Spirit also helpeth our infirmities” [Romans 8:26], and the Spirit being God, knoweth the mind of God; therefore in every prayer of ours for the sick, or for other needs, the will of God is to be regarded. Manuscript Releases Volume Two [Nos. 97-161], Page 36

Christ determined that when he ascended from this earth, he would bestow a gift on those who had believed on him, and those who should believe on him. What gift could he bestow rich enough to signalize and grace his ascension to the mediatorial throne? It must be worthy of his greatness and his royalty. He determined to give his representative, the third person of the Godhead. This gift could not be excelled. He would give all gifts in one, and therefore the divine Spirit, that converting, enlightening and sanctifying power, would be his donation. {SW, November 28, 1905 par. 2}

The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit.—Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897)

The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour.{BTS, March 1, 1906 par. 2}

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. 2 Corinthians 13:14.

We need to realize that the Holy Spirit is as much a person as God is a person.The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God.The Holy Spirit is a free, working, independent agency. Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. The Holy Spirit is an effective helper in restoring the image of God in the human soul. The Faith I Live By, Page 52

All manner of false doctrines, heresies, and deceptions are misleading the minds of men; and without the Spirit’s aid, our efforts to present divine truth will be in vain. We are living in the time of the "HOLY SPIRIT'S POWER". It is seeking to diffuse itself through the agency of humanity, thus increasing its influence in the world. Our High Calling, Page 155

the love of Jesus in the heart, the righteousness of Christ pervading the life. The love of Christ is diffusive and aggressive. If it is dwelling in us, it will flow out to others. We shall come close to them till their hearts are warmed by our unselfish interest and love. The sincere believers diffuse vital energy, which is penetrating and imparts new moral power to the souls for whom they labor. It is not the power of the man himself, but the POWER of the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work. Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing, Page 36

The power of the Holy Spirit, so much needed on the human heart, is not felt. Many who profess to believe and receive the Word of God are deceived; they are not practicing the truth. They are not following on to know the Lord, that they may know that His going forth is prepared as the morning.—Ms 141, 1907, p. 3. (Words to church members, June 19, 1907.)

In receiving baptism, the human agent, inspired with new purposes, pledges himself to die to the world and live in obedience to Christ. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost supply the power that makes him victorious in every conflict with the prince of darkness. —Letter 200, 1902, p. 7. (To Brother and Sister Kress, December 15, 1902). Manuscript Releases Volume Six [Nos. 347-418], Page 167

The heavenly host are filled with an intense desire to work through human agencies to restore in man the image of God. They are ready and waiting to do this work. The combined power of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost is pledged to uplift man from his fallen state. Every attribute, every power, of divinity, has been placed at the command of those who unite with the Saviour in winning men to God. Manuscript Releases Volume Seven [Nos. 419-525], Page 233

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you; and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world” [Matthew 28:16-20].

Here is a specified work, given to the disciples to do. “All power (in the sense of authority), is given unto Me, as Mediator between God and man,” Christ said. “Go, teach, bring into discipleship, all nations. Give them the knowledge of the truth of My gospel, which is founded on truth. Lead them to understand that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are heaven’s loving, powerful agencies for the accomplishment of the work of representing God in the world. Manuscript Releases Volume Sixteen [Nos. 1186-1235], Page 15

What a salvation is revealed in the covenant by which God promised to be our Father, His only- begotten Son our Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit our Comforter, Counselor, and Sanctifier! Upon no lower ground than this is it safe for us to place our feet. In Heavenly Places, Page 137

The Saviour was pointing forward to the time when the Holy Spirit should come to do a mighty work as His representative. The evil that had been accumulating for centuries was to be resisted by the divine power of the Holy Spirit.... The promise of the Holy Spirit is not limited to any age or to any race. Christ declared that the divine influence of His Spirit was to be with His followers unto the end. From the day of Pentecost to the present time, the Comforter has been sent to all who have yielded themselves fully to the Lord and to His service. To all who have accepted Christ as a personal Saviour, the Holy Spirit has come as a counselor, sanctifier, guide, and witness. Ye Shall Receive Power, Page 8

The work of the Holy Spirit is immeasurably great. It is from this source that power and efficiency come to the worker for God; and the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, as the personal presence of Christ to the soul. Any person who looks to Christ in simple, childlike faith is made a partaker of the divine nature through the agency of the Holy Spirit. When led by the Spirit of God, Christians may know that they are made complete in Him who is the head of all things.Christ Triumphant, p. 365.4

And Jesus said He would give us the Comforter. What is the Comforter? It is the Holy Spirit of God. What is the Holy Spirit? It is the representative of Jesus Christ, it is our Advocate that stands by our side and places our petitions before the Father all fragrant with His merits. Reflecting Christ, p. 285.4

"The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, in Christ's name. He personifies Christ, yet is a distinct personality. We may have the Holy Spirit if we ask for it and make it habit to turn to and trust in God rather than in any finite human agent who may make mistakes." {20MR 324.2}

The Lord Jesus acts through the Holy Spirit; for it is his representative. Through it he infuses spiritual life into the soul, quickening its energies for good, cleansing it from moral defilement, and giving it a fitness for his kingdom. Jesus has large blessings to bestow, rich gifts to distribute among men. He is the wonderful Counselor, infinite in wisdom and strength; and if we will acknowledge the power of his Spirit, and submit to be molded by it, we shall stand complete in him. What a thought is this! In Christ “dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him.” Never will the human heart know happiness until it is submitted to be molded by the Spirit of God. The Spirit conforms the renewed soul to the model, Jesus Christ. Through the influence of the Spirit, enmity against God is changed into faith and love, and pride into humility. The soul perceives the beauty of truth, and Christ is honored in excellence and perfection of character. As these changes are effected, angels break out in rapturous song, and God and Christ rejoice over souls fashioned after the divine similitude. The Review and Herald February 10, 1903 Our Battle With Evil

Christ, our Mediator, and the Holy Spirit are constantly interceding in man's behalf, but the Spirit pleads not for us as does Christ who presents His blood, shed from the foundation of the world; the Spirit works upon our hearts, drawing out prayers and penitence, praise and thanksgiving. The gratitude which flows from our lips is the result of the Spirit striking the cords of the soul in holy memories, awakening the music of the heart. {6BC 1077.13}

Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.—The Signs of the Times, June 19, 1901

All should bear in mind that Satan’s special efforts are directed against the ministry. He knows that it is but a human instrumentality, possessing no grace or holiness of its own. He knows that it is an agent that God has ordained to be a powerful means for the salvation of souls, and is efficacious only as God, the eternal Spirit, makes it so. Special Testimony for Ministers and Workers—No. 11, p. 2.2

The Lord will speak through His messengers. They are only the human instrumentalities, possessing no grace or loveliness of their own, and are powerful and efficacious only as God, the eternal Spirit, shall work upon human hearts. The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, p. 1039.1

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? The Upward Look, p. 74.5

And by His perfect obedience and the sacrifice of Himself, which He through the eternal Spirit once offered up unto God. ST August 4, 1898 par. 3

The Holy Spirit indites all genuine prayer. I have learned to know that in all my intercessions, the Spirit intercedes for me and for all saints whose intercessions are according to the will of God, never contrary to His will. “The Spirit also helpeth our infirmities” [Romans 8:26], and the Spirit being God, knoweth the mind of God; therefore in every prayer of ours for the sick, or for other needs, the will of God is to be regarded. Manuscript Releases Volume Two [Nos. 97-161], Page 36

[John317]

Here are a few quotes from two of our magazines that our pioneers wrote:

•We are not unmindful of the fact that all nature witnesses to the existence of God. Christ, either by His power manifesled in crealion and in upholding all things, or by His written Word, is the Light "which lighteth every man that cometh into the world," and the Holy Spirit witnesses in the hearts, or minds, of believers. Thus two persons of the Godhead witness to the human family. John 1:9 and Rom. 8:16. The psalmist stated that : "the heavens declare the glory of God" (Ps. 19:1); -• and Paul said that "He left not Himself without witness [even to the heathen], in that He did " good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness." Acts 14:17. Signs of the Times for 1912 - Vol. 39 - No. 01

“[The Holy Spirit] is one with and sent by the Father, and the Son… He[the Holy Spirit] would make us know His personality, but ever IN LIVING CONNECTION with Christ… Let Him [the Spirit] make you know, beloved, how surprisingly beautiful are the BLENDED PERSONALITIES of our TRIUNE GOD manifested by the personal presence of the Holy Ghost.” “Blended Personalities”,Review and Herald, Vol. 77, April 3,1900.

The following paragraph was written by the editor of the Review and Herald in 1913, two years before Ellen G. White passed away. Bear in mind that shortly after he wrote this, Ellen White appointed F.M. Wilcox to the original board of the EGW Estate.

For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,— 1. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption. F. M. Wilcox (editor of Review and Herald), *Review and Herald, October 9, 1913

[Dr. Waite]

A person whose teaches the doctrine of the trinity would NOT make the following statements:

A complete offering has been made; for “God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son,”—not a son by creation, as were the angels, nor a son by adoption, as is the forgiven sinner, but a Son begotten in the express image of the Father’s person, and in all the brightness of his majesty and glory, one

equal with God in authority, dignity, and divine perfection.

In him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. (Ellen White, The Signs of the Times, May 30, 1895)

Before Christ came in the likeness of men, he existed in the express image of his Father. (Ellen White, Youth’s Instructor, December 20, 1900)

The Eternal Father, the unchangeable one, gave his only begotten Son, tore from his bosom Him who was made in the express image of his person, and sent him down to earth to reveal how greatly he

loved mankind. (Ellen White, Review and Herald, July 9, 1895, par. 13)

Christ is the Son of God in deed and in truth and in love, and is the representative of the Father as well as the representative of the human race. (Ellen White, Manuscript Releases, vol. 14, page 83)

Jesus said to Mary, “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father.” When He closed His eyes in death upon the cross, the soul of Christ did not go at once to heaven, as many believe, or how could His words be true —“I am not yet ascended to my Father”? The spirit of Jesus slept in the tomb with His body, and did not wing its way to heaven, there to maintain a separate existence, and to look down upon the mourning disciples embalming the body from which it had taken flight. All that comprised the

life and intelligence of Jesus remained with His body in the sepulcher; and when He came forth it was as a whole being; He did not have to summon His spirit from heaven. (Ellen White, S.D.A. Bible Commentary, vol. 5, pages 1150, 1151)

When Jesus had opened before his disciples the fact that he must go to Jerusalem to suffer and die at the hands of the chief priests and scribes, Peter had presumptuously contradicted his Master, saying, “Be it far from thee, Lord; this shall not be unto thee.” He could not conceive it possible that the Son of God should be put to death. Satan suggested to his mind that if Jesus was the Son of God he could not die. (Ellen White, Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 3, page 231)

Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent. (Ellen White, Manuscript Releases, vol. 14, pages 23, 24; written February 18 and 19, 1895)

The Son of God was next in authority to the great Lawgiver. He knew that His life alone could be sufficient to ransom fallen man. (Ellen White, Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 2, page 9, also in Lift Him Up, page 24)

Satan’s position in heaven had been next to the Son of God. He was first among the angels. (Ellen White, Selected Messages, book 1, page 341)

Satan, the chief of the fallen angels, once had an exalted position in Heaven. He was next in honor to Christ. (Ellen White, Review & Herald, February 24, 1874)

Speaking of Satan, our Lord says that “he abode not in the truth.” He was once the covering cherub, glorious in beauty and holiness. He was next to Christ in exaltation and character. It was with Satan that self-exaltation had its origin. He became

jealous of Christ, and falsely accused him, and then laid blame upon the Father. He was envious of the position that was held by Christ and the Father, and he turned from his allegiance to the Commander of heaven and lost his high and holy estate. (Ellen

White, Review & Herald, October 22, 1895)

In order that the human family might have no excuse because of temptation, Christ became one with them. The only being who was one with God lived the law in humanity, descended to the lowly life of a common laborer, and toiled at the carpenter’s bench

with his earthly parent. (Ellen White, The Signs of the Times, October 14, 1897 par. 3)

The Sovereign of the universe was not alone in His work of beneficence. He had an associate—a co-worker who could appreciate His purposes, and could share His joy in giving happiness to created beings. ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word

was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.’ John 1:1, 2. Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father—one in nature, in character, in purpose— the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. ‘His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.’ Isaiah 9:6. His “goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” Micah 5:2. And the Son of God declares concerning Himself: “The Lord possessed Me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. I was set up from everlasting.… When He appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him.” Proverbs 8:22-30. (Ellen White, Patriarchs and Prophets, page 34)

By the power of His love, through obedience, fallen man, a worm of the dust, is to be transformed, fitted to be a member of the heavenly family, a companion through eternal ages of God and Christ and the holy angels.…—Manuscript 21, Feb. 16, 1900.(Ellen White, The Upward Look, page 61)

Let the brightest example the world has yet seen be your example, rather than the greatest and most learned men of the age, who know not God, nor Jesus Christ whom he has sent. The Father and the Son alone are to be exalted. (Ellen White, The Youth’s Instructor, July 7, 1898)

The plan of redemption was arranged in the councils between the Father and the Son. (Ellen White, Review & Herald, May 28, 1908 par. 12)

Even the angels were not permitted to share the counsels between the Father and the Son when the plan of salvation was laid. (Ellen White, Ministry of Healing, page 429)

The plan of salvation devised by the Father and the Son will be a grand success. (Ellen White, The Signs of the Times, June 17, 1903 par. 2)

Before the fall of man, the Son of God had united with his Father in laying the plan of salvation. (Ellen White, Review & Herald, September 13, 1906 par. 4)

The great plan of redemption was laid before the foundation of the world. And Christ, our Substitute and Surety, did not stand alone in the wondrous undertaking of the ransom of man. In the plan to save a lost world, the counsel was between them both; the covenant of peace was between the Father and the Son. (Ellen White, The Signs of the Times, December 23, 1897, par. 2)

After the earth was created, and the beasts upon it, the Father and Son carried out their purpose,… And now God said to His Son, “Let us make man in our image.” (Ellen White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 1, pages 24, 25)

[Nic Samojluk]

John317 wrote:

“The doctrine of the Trinity (as SDAs believe and teach it) is not built on a single passage of Scripture. You could take out Matt. 28: 19 and the doctrine would still stand on the basis of valid Bible evidence.”

Can you share with me the other biblical texts which support the Trinity doctrine?

“You apparently object to building a doctrine on a single passage, yet you evidently want us to build our view of Matt. 28: 19 on the word of Eusebius.”

Can you cite other biblical texts where baptism was performed in the threefold name?

“We have to go by the manuscript evidence, and all of the ancient manuscripts of the end of Matthew's Gospel contain Matt. 28: 19. But if you want to depend on Eusebius of Caesarea, be my guest.”

The Trinity doctrine was a late development in the history of the church. I suggest that you read what the history says about this. When the church adopted this new doctrine, there was a consistent effort to destroy all old manuscripts. Entire libraries were set on fire. This is why the testimony of Eusebius is so significant, and this is the reason for the lack of older manuscripts.

”Ellen White instead used the words "heavenly trio" and "the great Threefold power in heaven," etc. What is a trio? It's three closely associated persons. That's an essential part of the Trinity. Trio= three= Trinity.”

You read the term Trinity into the “heavenly Trio” phrase; I don’t! Trio is not equivalent to equality. Only Jesus is equal with God. I find no text in the Bible stating that the Holy Spirit is equal to God. Do you?

[Dr. Waite]

For the benefit of those who may desire to know more particularly the cardinal features of the faith held by this denomination, we shall state that Seventh-day Adventists believe,— 1. In the divine Trinity. This Trinity consists of the eternal Father, a personal, spiritual being, omnipotent, omniscient, infinite in power, wisdom, and love; of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the eternal Father, through whom all things were created, and through whom the salvation of the redeemed hosts will be accomplished; the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, the one regenerating agency in the work of redemption. F. M. Wilcox (editor of Review and Herald), *Review and Herald, October 9, 1913

John:

QUESTION: What does the SDA church teach regarding this doctrine?

ANSWER: "The sonship of Jesus, however, is not ontological, but functional. In the plan of salvation each member of the trinity has accepted a particular role" (The Trinity in Scripture by Gerhard Pfandl of the Biblical Research Institute of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists).

Merriam-Webster Dictionary: "Ontological" means related to or based upon being or existence

QUESTION: Does Hebrews chapter one teach an "ontological" or a "functional" Son of God?? Can a functional Son of God have inheritance?

[John317]

You apparently object to building a doctrine on a single passage, yet you evidently want us to build our view of Matt. 28: 19 on the word of Eusebius.

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

Can you cite other biblical texts where baptism was performed in the threefold name?

This is based on a misunderstanding of the meaning of Matt. 28: 19.

You're assuming that Jesus told his disciples that they must repeat the words "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." But that is not what it means to teach and bapitze in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. In means "in the authority of" God, and the God of the Bible is the triune God. So when people are baptized in the authority of Christ, they are being baptized in the authority of the entire triune God whether or not they actually repeat their individual names.

Notice that disciples of Christ are to be baptized in one "NAME." What name is that?

Let me give an example. When someone is arrested in the name or authority of the law, it is not necessary to name each person or part of the legal system under whose authority the arrest is made. You don't have to say, "in the name of the judge, and of the legislature, and of the governor." The "name" takes in all of those powers or persons. The same applies to baptizing in the "name" of Christ. It includes the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because these three greatest Powers in the universe always work together. That "name" is Jehovah, or Yahweh, or God. We worship only one Yahweh, one God.

[John317]

The Trinity doctrine was a late development in the history of the church. I suggest that you read what the history says about this. When the church adopted this new doctrine, there was a consistent effort to destroy all old manuscripts. Entire libraries were set on fire. This is why the testimony of Eusebius is so significant, and this is the reason for the lack of older manuscripts.

I have studied (and continue to study) the history of the Christians Church as well as the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, particularly the development of doctrine.

Of course it took time for the church to understand the significance of the doctrines of the Bible. So, yes, it is a process, and this includes the doctrine of the Trinity. However, there is no doubt that the Trinity doctrine (as SDAs believe and teach it) is a part of the Bible.

There was never a time when all the manuscripts of the Bible were in a single location so that anyone could destroy or change all of them. God saw to it that they were distributed in many different locations so that His word would be protected.

What you seem to be claiming is that God didn't protect His word in order that we can learn the truth.

Yes, many fallen angels and people, including the Romans, tried to destroy the Scriptures, but they weren't able to do it because God protected it. The Bible is trustworthy.

As for the existence ancient manuscripts, there are thousands of more manuscripts of the Bible than there is for any other ancient book. Most of the ancient books are only supported today by two or three ancient manuscripts, and those are usually far more recent than the manuscripts of the Bible. So the manuscript evidence for the Bible is extremely strong.

[John317]

The doctrine of the Trinity (as SDAs believe and teach it) is not built on a single passage of Scripture. You could take out Matt. 28: 19 and the doctrine would still stand on the basis of valid Bible evidence.

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

Can you share with me the other biblical texts which support the Trinity doctrine?

For one thing, the Scriptures refer to the Father as God, to the Son as God, and to the Holy Spirit as God. Yet we worship "one God." ("One" is not the mathematical "1" but the "one" of unity.) We don't need Matt. 28: 19 to understand this.

As for the biblical evidence for the Trinity, please study the whole of the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7NIGgrntUzA

[John317]

Thank you for those quotes by Ellen White. I don't see how those quotes contradict the quotes I posted. They are actually in harmony.

[phkrause]

Thank you for those quotes by Ellen White. I don't see how those quotes contradict the quotes I posted. They are actually in harmony.

Exactly my thoughts when I read those.

[John317]

QUESTION: What does the SDA church teach regarding this doctrine?

ANSWER: "The sonship of Jesus, however, is not ontological, but functional. In the plan of salvation each member of the trinity has accepted a particular role" (The Trinity in Scripture by Gerhard Pfandl of the Biblical Research Institute of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists).

What the SDA Church teaches on this doctrine is contained in Fundamental Beliefs #2 through 5. Our beliefs are also expressed in the writings of Ellen G. White.

[John317]

(quoting Ellen White)--The plan of redemption was arranged in the councils between the Father and the Son. (Ellen White, Review & Herald, May 28, 1908 par. 12)

Even the angels were not permitted to share the counsels between the Father and the Son when the plan of salvation was laid. (Ellen White, Ministry of Healing, page 429)

The plan of salvation devised by the Father and the Son will be a grand success. (Ellen White, The Signs of the Times, June 17, 1903 par. 2)

Before the fall of man, the Son of God had united with his Father in laying the plan of salvation. (Ellen White, Review & Herald, September 13, 1906 par. 4)

The great plan of redemption was laid before the foundation of the world. And Christ, our Substitute and Surety, did not stand alone in the wondrous undertaking of the ransom of man. In the plan to save a lost world, the counsel was between them both; the covenant of peace was between the Father and the Son. (Ellen White, The Signs of the Times, December 23, 1897, par. 2)

After the earth was created, and the beasts upon it, the Father and Son carried out their purpose,… And now God said to His Son, “Let us make man in our image.” (Ellen White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 1, pages 24, 25)

The above quotes make it appear that Ellen White is saying that only the Son and the Father took part in the council regarding the redemption of man. That is what some anti-Trinitarians claim.

But when we consider the following quote, we see that the Holy Spirit was also a part of that heavenly council.

"The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption".—Counsels on Health, 222. (Be sure to read the entire paragraph.)

Notice the following points:

1) That the Holy Spirit was with the Father and Christ at the time of the Fall.

2) That the Holy Spirit felt pity.

3) That the Holy Spirit was one of three divine Persons who gave Himself.

4) That the Holy Spirit must have a will, intelligence, a mind.

5) And that the Godhead consists of three: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Remember also that elsewhere Ellen White refers to the Godhead as "the eternal Godhead," which can only mean that the Godhead has ALWAYS consisted of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.)

Thus, when we read all that Ellen White says on the topic, we see that there is perfect harmony among all the statements by Ellen White. The same principle applies to Scripture. For both the Bible and Ellen White, the problem comes when people leave out some relevent texts or passages. The above is a good example of how this happens.

[phkrause]

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

QUESTION: What does the SDA church teach regarding this doctrine?

ANSWER: "The sonship of Jesus, however, is not ontological, but functional. In the plan of salvation each member of the trinity has accepted a particular role" (The Trinity in Scripture by Gerhard Pfandl of the Biblical Research Institute of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists).

What the SDA Church teaches on this doctrine is contained in Fundamental Beliefs #2 through 5. Our beliefs are also expressed in the writings of Ellen G. White.

IS THE BIBLICAL RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF THE GENERAL CONFERENCE OF SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS PART OF THE SDA CHURCH?

[Dr. Waite]

Thank you for those quotes by Ellen White. I don't see how those quotes contradict the quotes I posted. They are actually in harmony.

JOHN:

Is the holy spirit a GOD? Do you worship the holy spirit?

Do you believe that the Son of God was "made" in the express image of the Father? (Hebrews chapter 1) If so, how could the Son of God have been made in the express image of the Father, it the Father did not exist first? Did the Son of God exist as the express image of the Father before He came to this earth?

EGW does not support the worship of the holy spirit as a third God different than the Father and Son.

EGW supports the truth that the Son of God existed as being made in the express image of the Father before He came to this earth.

[John317]

Ellen White instead used the words "heavenly trio" and "the great Threefold power in heaven," etc. What is a trio? It's three closely associated persons. That's an essential part of the Trinity. Trio= three= Trinity.

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

You read the term Trinity into the heavenly Trio phrase; I don't! Trio is not equivalent to equality. Only Jesus is equal with God. I find no text in the Bible stating that the Holy Spirit is equal to God. Do you?

Let's bear in mind that the Bible refers to the Holy Spirit as "God" [Gk theos].

Isn't God equal to God?

Is there any inquality within the Godhead?

Was Jesus, who is equal with God, "led up into the wilderness" by an inferior Spirit?

Jesus said that when He went back to the Father, they would send the Holy Spirit. Notice that Christ calls the Holy Spirit "another Comforter [Gk parakletos] of the same kind." Would you agree that the description, "another parakletos of the same kind," shows that the other parakletos is equal with Christ?

Do you see anything concerning the Holy Spirit in John 14 and 16 which shows that the Holy Spirit is inferior to Christ?

[Dr. Waite]

TO ALL WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THIS TOPIC I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS THAT ANYONE CAN ANSWER:

1) WHEN JESUS CHRIST WAS HERE ON THIS EARTH DID HE TEACH THAT WE SHOULD WORSHIP ANYONE OTHER THAN HIS FATHER?

2) WHEN JESUS CHRIST WAS HERE ON THIS EARTH DID HE TEACH THAT WE SHOULD WORSHIP THE HOLY SPIRIT AS A DISTINCT PERSON FROM THE FATHER AND THE SON?

3) WHEN JESUS CHRIST WAS HERE ON THIS EARTH DID HE TEACH THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ANOTHER GOD DISTINCT FROM THE FATHER AND THE SON?

[John317]

Dr.Waite, Ellen White sang praises to the Holy Spirit, and she also said that when she prayed, she included the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit intercedes for you and prays for you and is involved in the answering of your prayers. When you think of it, Dr. Waite, you can't just pray to one person of the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is a part of the Godhead, right? Isn't He "the third Person of the Godhead"? Therefore it is impossible to pray to only one person of a united, unified Godhead. It's the same with trying to baptize a believer in the name of only Christ without including the entire Godhead, which consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

[John317]

...

EGW does not support the worship of the holy spirit as a third God different than the Father and Son.

This is because the Holy Spirit is not a third God.

But Ellen White says plainly that the Holy Spirit is a person, has a personality, and is a distinct personality. The Bible clearly shows this to be true.

[Dr. Waite]

Dr.Waite, Ellen White sang praises to the Holy Spirit, and she also said that when she prayed, she included the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit intercedes for you and prays for you and is involved in the answering of your prayers. When you think of it, Dr. Waite, you can't just pray to one person of the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is a part of the Godhead, right? Isn't He "the third Person of the Godhead"? Therefore it is impossible to pray to only one person of a united, unified Godhead. It's the same with trying to baptize a believer in the name of only Christ without including the entire Godhead, which consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

YOU STATE: " When you think of it, Dr. Waite, you can't just pray to one person of the Godhead"

JOHN: WHEN JESUS PRAYED OR TAUGHT US TO PRAY (Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.) DID HE PRAY OR TEACH US TO PRAY TO ONE PERSON?

[John317]

TO ALL WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THIS TOPIC I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS THAT ANYONE CAN ANSWER:

... 3) WHEN JESUS CHRIST WAS HERE ON THIS EARTH DID HE TEACH THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ANOTHER GOD DISTINCT FROM THE FATHER AND THE SON?

Definitely not. The Holy Spirit is not "another God." He is "another parakletos" of the same kind as Christ. What kind is that? Jesus is a personal, divine Being, and therefore we can know that the Holy Spirit is also a personal, divine Being. That is in fact what the Bible shows Him to be.

We only worship "one God," Dr. Waite.

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

TO ALL WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THIS TOPIC I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS THAT ANYONE CAN ANSWER:

... 3) WHEN JESUS CHRIST WAS HERE ON THIS EARTH DID HE TEACH THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ANOTHER GOD DISTINCT FROM THE FATHER AND THE SON?

Definitely not. The Holy Spirit is not "another God." He is "another parakletos" of the same kind as Christ. What kind is that? Jesus is a personal, divine Being, and therefore we can know that the Holy Spirit is also a personal, divine Being. That is in fact what the Bible shows Him to be.

We only worship "one God," Dr. Waite.

I AGREE THAT WE WORSHIP ONLY ONE GOD, BUT WE DO NOT DEFINE "GOD" THE SAME. I DO NOT DEFINE "GOD" AS A UNITY OF THREE CO-ETERNAL PERSONS. JESUS CHRIST DEFINED "GOD" OR "THE ONLY TRUE GOD" AS BEING HIS FATHER ONLY AND NO ONE ELSE. THAT IS WHO I WORSHIP.

[John317]

Dr.Waite, Ellen White sang praises to the Holy Spirit, and she also said that when she prayed, she included the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit intercedes for you and prays for you and is involved in the answering of your prayers. When you think of it, Dr. Waite, you can't just pray to one person of the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is a part of the Godhead, right? Isn't He "the third Person of the Godhead"? Therefore it is impossible to pray to only one person of a united, unified Godhead. It's the same with trying to baptize a believer in the name of only Christ without including the entire Godhead, which consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Originally Posted By: Dr.Waite

JOHN: WHEN JESUS PRAYED OR TAUGHT US TO PRAY (Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.) DID HE PRAY OR TEACH US TO PRAY TO ONE PERSON?

My point is that when we pray to God, all of the triune God is involved. When we pray to the Father, it is Christ's blood and prayers for us which make it possible for our prayers to reach God the Father. And the Holy Spirit is instrumental in interceding for us and in answering our prayers. It's the Holy Spirit who applies the works of Christ to our life. The Holy Spirit cleanses us and sanctifies us. He guides us into the truth and teaches us. These are some of the ways in which the entire truine God is involved in our prayer life.

Ellen White said:

"Here is where the work of the Holy Ghost comes in, after your baptism. You are baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. You are raised up out of the water to live henceforth in newness of life--to live a new life. You are born unto God, and you stand under the sanction and the power of the three holiest beings in heaven, who are able to keep you from falling. You are to reveal that you are dead to sin; your life is hid with Christ in God. Hidden "with Christ in God,"--wonderful transformation. This is a most precious promise. When I feel oppressed, and hardly know how to relate myself toward the work that God has given me to do, I just *call upon the three great Worthies, and say; You know I cannot do this work in my own strength. You must work in me, and by me and through me, sanctifying my tongue, sanctifying my spirit, sanctifying my words, and bringing me into a position where my spirit shall be susceptible to the movings of the Holy Spirit of God upon my mind and character." {7MR 267.2}

*"Calling upon" is an expression referring to prayer.

[John317]

I AGREE THAT WE WORSHIP ONLY ONE GOD, BUT WE DO NOT DEFINE "GOD" THE SAME. I DO NOT DEFINE "GOD" AS A UNITY OF THREE CO-ETERNAL PERSONS. JESUS CHRIST DEFINED "GOD" OR "THE ONLY TRUE GOD" AS BEING HIS FATHER ONLY AND NO ONE ELSE. THAT IS WHO I WORSHIP.

How does Ellen White define "the Godhead"? For instance, what does she say about this in Counsels On Health 222 and elsewhere?

"The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption."

[Overaged]

Is the Trinity a committee?