RE: Father, Son & Holy Ghost....3 gods.

[Nic Samojluk]

He was not eternal at the time he was dead.

Yes,he was.This is why he could take his human life again at will. As a human being he was not eternal, but as God he was still alive. His divinity did not die.

[Gibs]

Dr. Waite,

QUOTE: "Dr. Waite, Jesus Christ was in the tomb or grave as any and all of us will be."

I asked this question: SO IF JESUS CHRIST AS A DIVINE PERSON DID NOT DIE FROM FRIDAY AFTERNOON TO SUNDAY MORNING, WHERE WAS JESUS CHRIST AS A DIVINE PERSON?

Divinity did not die that Friday afternoon is a surity. Deity cannot die. The man part of Him died, that is all that died. God cannot be killed. The Father in Him went with that body and stayed with it the appointed time and resurrected the body of Jesus Christ never to die again.

The Father vested in Him stayed with the body to rusurrect it and did. Jesus was the body prepared for this,

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Waite]

Dr. Waite,

QUOTE: "Dr. Waite, Jesus Christ was in the tomb or grave as any and all of us will be."

I asked this question: SO IF JESUS CHRIST AS A DIVINE PERSON DID NOT DIE FROM FRIDAY AFTERNOON TO SUNDAY MORNING, WHERE WAS JESUS CHRIST AS A DIVINE PERSON?

Divinity did not die that Friday afternoon is a surity. Deity cannot die. The man part of Him died, that is all that died. God cannot be killed. The Father in Him went with that body and stayed with it the appointed time and resurrected the body of Jesus Christ never to die again.

The Father vested in Him stayed with the body to rusurrect it and did. Jesus was the body prepared for this,

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Jesus Christ is the faithful and true witness. See Revelation 3:14

Jesus Christ, the true witness, states: "I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen" Revelation 1:18.

If only part of Jesus Christ died, then what he said in Revelation 1:18 would be a part lie.

The Jesus Christ that I serve does not tell part lies and is NOT a false witness part of the time.

[Gibs]

Dr Waite,

This is from John after the resurrection,

Re 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Ro 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

The Man Jesus Christ is now raised immortal.

For sure He will not die anymore as He is now immortal and the need to die again will never be. Only the Deity in Him before the His resurrection was immortal.

As the verses 1 Cor 15:24-28 reveal when it is finished and is nearly now completed, Jesus retures The Deity back to His Father and the Father is then All in All!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[troyjs]

Gibs,

You make a distinction between Jesus, and the Deity in Him. Do you ascribe to the Nestorian Heresy?

When Jesus claimed to be 'before Abraham', was He not referring to Himself?

When He claimed to be the bread of Life come from heaven, did he not say that the bread He would give for the life of the World was His flesh?

John 6:

41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.” 42 They were saying, “ Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘ I have come down out of heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘ And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”

Interestingly, you believe that Jesus who humbled Himself, will not receive the Glory He once had. Glorify me, Jesus said.

You say that 'the man part of Him died'. Noone denies that Jesus died in His mortal body, but the difference is that you make the 'man part' of Jesus, another person distinct from the 'God part' of Jesus. It seems that you believe that there are 2 persons in Christ. Nestorianism.

If that is so, which part was it that came down from heaven -- the 'man part', or the 'Divine part'?

If the Divine part is that which is called the bread come down from heaven, then how does the Divine part give His flesh for the life of the World?

If the man part is that which is the bread of life which is the flesh given for the life of the world, then hos is the man part come down from heaven?

Rather, the person Jesus Christ, is the one come down from heaven, who is true deity, and who also has true flesh, which He gives for the life of the world. The one person is both God and man, who is both Spirit, and material; both immortal and everlasting, and yet died for us. It is the person Jesus Christ, who became incarnate, who came down from heaven, and who gives His flesh for the Life of the world, and who the Apostles called the Son of the Living God.

Also, consider who it was that Isaiah saw, and who it was that the authorities believed in:

John 12:

41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him. 42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue;

Isaiah saw the one who the authorities believed in, but did not confess due to the pharisees. Who was it that was speaking, and who was believed but not confessed? It was Jesus Christ, the whole person -- not just a 'part' of Him. Who is it that these people were believing? It was the same person they were seeing...:

44 And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me.

The person that these people were seeing, is the same person who they were listening to. It is this same person, who Isaiah saw. Interestingly, this same passage teaches the distinction between the Son of the Father, and the Father of the Son, all the whle teaching their equality.

kind regards

ThoroughlyFurnished.blogspot.com

[skyblue888]

Jesus said, "Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood, you have no life in you."

Troy, What did Jesus mean? You probably know what it means as far as our spiritual nature is concerned but what do they mean as far as our physical nature is concerned?

Just curious as to what your reply will be.

sky

[Gibs]

Gibs,

You make a distinction between Jesus, and the Deity in Him. Do you ascribe to the Nestorian Heresy?

When Jesus claimed to be 'before Abraham', was He not referring to Himself?

When He claimed to be the bread of Life come from heaven, did he not say that the bread He would give for the life of the World was His flesh?

John 6:

41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.” 42 They were saying, “ Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘ I have come down out of heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘ And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”

Interestingly, you believe that Jesus who humbled Himself, will not receive the Glory He once had. Glorify me, Jesus said.

You say that 'the man part of Him died'. Noone denies that Jesus died in His mortal body, but the difference is that you make the 'man part' of Jesus, another person distinct from the 'God part' of Jesus. It seems that you believe that there are 2 persons in Christ. Nestorianism.

If that is so, which part was it that came down from heaven -- the 'man part', or the 'Divine part'?

If the Divine part is that which is called the bread come down from heaven, then how does the Divine part give His flesh for the life of the World?

If the man part is that which is the bread of life which is the flesh given for the life of the world, then hos is the man part come down from heaven?

Rather, the person Jesus Christ, is the one come down from heaven, who is true deity, and who also has true flesh, which He gives for the life of the world. The one person is both God and man, who is both Spirit, and material; both immortal and everlasting, and yet died for us. It is the person Jesus Christ, who became incarnate, who came down from heaven, and who gives His flesh for the Life of the world, and who the Apostles called the Son of the Living God.

Also, consider who it was that Isaiah saw, and who it was that the authorities believed in:

John 12:

41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him. 42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue;

Isaiah saw the one who the authorities believed in, but did not confess due to the pharisees. Who was it that was speaking, and who was believed but not confessed? It was Jesus Christ, the whole person -- not just a 'part' of Him. Who is it that these people were believing? It was the same person they were seeing...:

44 And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. 45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me.

The person that these people were seeing, is the same person who they were listening to. It is this same person, who Isaiah saw. Interestingly, this same passage teaches the distinction between the Son of the Father, and the Father of the Son, all the whle teaching their equality.

kind regards

ThoroughlyFurnished.blogspot.com

Jesus before Bethlehem was the Redeemer brougtht out in Isa. 44:6, He is what the Father gave of Himself for our Redeemer, one of His own Substance not born or created. "I and my Father are One".

Yes, Yes He "Yahweh of Hosts" His name at the beginning time then did all the creation and all the hosts and all that is seen. He gave of Himself Our Redeemer before anything else.

Then at Bethlehem He entered into the body prepared Him, the man Jesus Christ born of Woman but the son of God. Truly God the Father with us in Jesus Christ.

Sure He was before Abraham or anything, He being of one substance of the Father, could claim all the attributes of the Father. Eternal pre existense, first and last the same as the Father, for they are one.

Jesus the man He dwelt in is an other person and that then is the only two persons in the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is God, and not another God, Read, oh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

He was Divinity and Humanity is very correct.

I am sure Jesus is not telling us wrong.

We would be destroyed in His Presence so He comes to us by His Spirit and by His and our Redeemer. 1 Jo 5:7 is absolutely correct.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

After the resurrection and Jesus returns to Heaven He receives all honor and Glory Heaven can bestow. He remains our Redeemer yet however as His job the Father brought Him forth of Himself to do is not done yet. It is very, very nearly done though, just a few more short yrs.

Then when it is done, read and take hold of this,

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Yes now it is over, no more will sin rise up and so our Redeemer takes the place of our King, is the Prince and we belong to Him, He bought us with His blood.

But did you notice, He now does't reign as before, verse 25 above, but is subject to the Father now and The Father is declared to be ALL IN ALL! Now all are subject to the one supreme and Only God there ever was and ever will be.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[troyjs]

Gibs,

It seems to me that your response presuppoes the very position that you are espousing, namely, that there are 2 persons in Christ. When you say that Isaiah saw Him, you mean to say that Isaiah saw the Father -- not the person Jesus. Not to erect a strawman, I will allow you to confirm this.

In regards to John 6, it seems that you did not think it important to respond to. Remember, the bread which is come down from heaven, is the same bread which is the flesh given for the life of the world:

50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

As far as 1 Cor 15, remember that most Bible Commentaries and Systematic Theology texts are written by Trinitarians, so the passage is actually not a surprising read for us. Remember that Jesus Christ, being one person both God and man, humbled Himself voluntarily, and subjected Himself to the Father while on Earth. Jesus does not stop from having a human nature as well as being God, and therefore there would be no reason for a Trinitarian to disagree with 1 Cor 15. When we study the text, we learn that it has certain parallels where Christ is referred to being all in all. In fact, it is completely harmonious with the following passage, which actually refutes your position as seems to be. If we read the whole passage on 1 Cor 15 in context, it is in regards to the person Jesus -- both God and man, who is having all things put under Him. The same person, Jesus, being both God and man, retains His voluntary obedience to the Father. The following passage is the opposite parralel, where the person Jesus is humbled, although being God:

Philippians2:

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,

did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

7 rather, he made himself nothing

by taking the very nature of a servant,

being made in human likeness.

8 And being found in appearance as a man,

he humbled himself

by becoming obedient to death —

even death on a cross!

The same person who is by very nature God, is the same person who is also man. The same person who is by nature God, is the same person who experienced death on the cross. Your position makes the 'man' part of Jesus a different person from the 'divine' part of Jesus, and therefore the man part of Jesus can not be said to be by very nature -- God.

Rather, Jesus is one person, both man and God, who voluntarily laid aside His divine prerogatives, and humbled Himself even to death on the cross.

Sky,

If we read John 6, we learn that eating and drinking Christ, is to abide in Him, and we do this by coming and believing, which is the work of the Spirit:

27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

THE LISTENERS ASK HOW WE CAN WORK FOR THAT WHICH DOES NOT SPOIL. JESUS ANSWERS THAT THE WORK OF GOD IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE WHO IS SENT.

30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? 31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’[c]”

32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

THE BREAD COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN GIVES LIFE TO THE WORLD.

34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

JESUS IS THE BREAD OF LIFE. IF WE BELIEVE AND COME TO HIM, WE WILL NOT BE HUNGRY OR THIRSTY.

WE SEE THEN, THAT THE FOOD WHICH DOES NOT SPOIL, AND THE BREAD WHICH GIVES LIFE, IS RECEIVED WHEN WE COME AND BELIEVE -- WHEN WE DO THE WORK OF GOD BY BELIEVING IN THE ONE WHO IS SENT -- BELIEVE IN HIM.

That is the context for understanding the rest of the passage.

UNLESS WE EAT AND DRINK, WE WILL NOT HAVE LIFE IN US.

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

JUST AS HE IS IN THE FATHER, WE MUST BE IN HIM, BY EATING AND DRINKING.

This concept of us being/abiding in Christ, just as Christ abides in the Father, is further expanded upon in the the rest of John. In faact, the way Jesus lives and abides by the Father, is by doing the will of the Father -- the parallel for us is that we do the will of Him, by believing in the one who is sent. In John 4, Jesus begins to speak about what this food He must eat:

31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.”

32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

33 Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”

34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

JESUS DEFINES HIS FOOD AS TO DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER -- THIS IS EXACTLY OUR FOOD, BY WHICH WE LIVE, WHICH IS DEFINED IN JOHN 6. IN FACT, JESUS DEFINES WHAT HIS WORK IS ALSO, IN JOHN 6:

38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

WHEN WE COMPARE JESUS FOOD, WITH OUR FOOD, WE SEE THAT THEY ARE 2 SIDES OF THE SAME COIN -- JESUS FOODIS TO BE A PERFECT SAVIOUR, AND OUR FOOD IS TO BELIEVE IN THE PERFECT SAVIOUR.

WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT HOWEVER, IS THAT THIS IS ALL THE WORK OF THE SPIRIT:

John 6:

63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

COMPARE WITH jOHN 3:

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]

THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING -- THE FLESH GIVES BIRTH TO FLESH -- WE MUST BE BORN OF THE SPIRIT, WHICH IS THAT WHICH GIVES LIFE. HOW ARE WE BORN OF THE SPIRIT?

jESUS WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND ARE TRUTH. BELIEVE ON THEM, AND WE WILL NEVER HUNGER OR THIRST. We are already clean, because of his word:

John 15:

2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

BECAUSE OF THE LIFE-GIVING WORDS OF JESUS WHICH WE HAVE BELIEVED IN, THE VINEDRESSER PRUNES US TO BEAR FRUIT, AND WE CONTINUE TO ABIDE IN HIM -- JUST AS CHRIST SAYS IN JOHN 6. AS HE LIVES BY THE FATHER, SO WE LIVE BY HIM. HE TELLS US THESE THINGS SO THAT OUR JOY MAY BE FULL:

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit —fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.

I discuss John 6 at length at my blog: ThoroughlyFurnished.blogspot.com

kind regards

[Gibs]

troyjs,

You make a great long post that wearies me to read it all.

Yes for heavens sake it was the Father who was in Christ the man and the two are mysteriously blended, this happened at Bethlehem.

I've posted verses on this and Jesus Himself made it clear, "I and my Father are one". No way was Jesus another Deity. The Holy Spirit is not another Deity either as the Holy Spirit is God, Yahweh. Primarily that is what God is, He is omnipresent.

In His flesh Jesus is the bread from Heaven in the fact Yahweh is His Son, but He is also one of us with a fallen nature to overcome and with the Father dwelling in Him, Divine Nature He did not in any way succumb to any sin.

You all make a mountain out of a molehill. We are told by inspiration to us the union of man and Deity will remain a mystery until we have more than a finite mind.

I may get back more later, no time now,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Gibs, here is how I have come to understand the God-man Christ Jesus. While He walked among men His own divinity was there the whole time but it was held back the whole time. The man Jesus was in total subjection to the Father and the Father did the works in and through Him. So it was the divinity of the Father through the Agency of the Holy Spirit that did all the works.

Troy, you wrote, "Rather, Jesus is one person, both man and God, who voluntarily laid aside His divine prerogatives, and humbled Himself even to death on the cross."

What Christ laid aside for ever is the form of God which He had before He took the form of a man but the glories of the form of God He for a while relinquished for now they are upon His human form.

The redeemed also will have the human and the divine blended together and for that reason they will be one with Christ and the Father for ever and ever. They too will share the glories of the form of God for ever and ever.

sky

[skyblue888]

Troy, thank you for your reply. You repeated yourself many times but since we are slow to learn and ready to forget I suppose repetition will not hurt as long as we repeat what is truth. "To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not tedious, but for you it is safe." Phil.3:1.

You are right in saying that Christ is the bread of life, the bread that comes down from Heaven. He is the true Manna. He gives Himself to us through the spoken word. By receiving the word we receive Him. Thus the words that He speaks to us are Spirit and they are Life. This is true for all who come to God just as they are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the merits of the blood shed for them upon Calvary's cross.

So this is what it means to eat His flesh and drink His blood for our spiritual nature. John 6:54-58.

But now my question to you is about our physical nature. In verse 53 Jesus said, "Unless you eat My flesh and drink My blood you have no life in you."

Here He was talking about our physical nature. Mrs. White, on page 660 of Desire of Ages, is commenting directly upon the words of Jesus in John 6:53 and says:

"This is true of our physical nature."

Then she explains:

"Never one, saint or sinner, eats his daily food but he is nourished by the flesh and the blood of Christ." D.A.660.

A few sentences down she concludes by saying:

"The light shining from that Communion service in the upper chamber makes sacred the provisions for our daily life. The family board becomes as the table of the Lord, and every meal a sacrament." Ibid,660.

Now I am sure you will agree with me that this is not something that is commonly understood by us. It was not understood by the Catholic church to be sure and it was not even understood by the Reformers. But the Lord has revealed this to His people in these last days.

What are the provisions for our daily life: That which the Lord has given us to eat and drink. (Vegetarian diet given to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden) For "Is is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our strength. It is by His life that we exist, hour by hour, moment by moment. Except as perverted by sin, all His gifts tend to life, to health and joy." Education,197-8.

This is what it means to eat His flesh and drink His blood as far as our physical nature is concerned.

On page 108 of the book Education she explains as to how His life for our physical life was imparted to the provisions for our daily life.

"It is the Word of God, the impartation of His life, that gives life to the seed; and of this life, we, in eating the grain, become partakers. This God desires us to discern. He desires that even in receiving our daily bread (loaf of bread or provisons for our daily life) we may discern His agency and may be brought into closer fellowship with Him."

Interesting, isn't it?

sky

[troyjs]

sky,

Jesus says that we will be nourished and our thirst quenched, by coming and believing.

To say that something physical needs to be added to belief in Christ's words, is to make coming and believing, insufficient.

Rather, I agree with Jesus that the work for the food which does not perish, is to believe in Him, and that by coming and believing, we are nourished and have our thirst quenched. That is the context for understanding eating and dringing Jesus flesh and blood.

Unfortunately, EGW was not very profficient in Biblical exegesis. Your quotes bring this out. The context of the communion table was not in the mind of those who Jesus was speaking to. It is therefore eisegesis to interpret Jesus' words in John 6 in that way, as EGW does. Rather, a greek transliteration of the words in contention say:

The one eating of my flesh, and the one drinking of my blood, is having life -- present tense

The eating of Jesus body, and the drinking of Jesus blood, is something which was a present possibility for those listening to Jesus -- before the institution of the Lord's Supper. This is because coming and believing, is that which unites us to Christ, and by which we are nourished. To add anything thereunto, is to say that coming and believing are insufficient to work for the food that does not perish. Remember, the work for this food is defined as believing in the one who is sent. In regards to God's providence in nature, the Pharisees understood that all they receive is from the hand of the Lord, yet they did not eat Jesus body, nor drink His blood. That is because the eating and drinking in John 6, is within the context of salvation, and the coming and believing which is the work of the Spirit.

kind regards

[troyjs]

Gibs,

You say that Jesus in His flesh is come down from heaven. Do you agree then that there are not 2 persons in Christ? If you say that there are 2 persons in Christ, do you say that one of these persons is come down from heaven, and the other is not?

kind regards

ThoroughlyFurnishing.blogspot.com

[Gibs]

troyjs, The man Jesus Christ was born of Mary, the Father vested in Him of course came from heaven. In His flesh though He was one of us and yet His Father was Yahweh also.

He finally when all is completed returns the Deity vested in Him to do what He is sent to do that again the Father is all in all again. Read 1 Cor 15:24-28, which I've posted here many times.

Yes the person of the Father dwells in Jesus for He is the Body prepared for that. And yes Jesus is a man person. All is not to be fully understood until we have more than a finite mind. He gives us clearly all we need for now be satisfied.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[troyjs]

Gibs,

Was it the man Jesus' flesh which was given for the life of the world, or was it the Father's flesh?

If it was the man Jesus' flesh, did the man Jesus come down from heaven?

The text says that the one who came down from heaven, is the exact same one who gives His flesh for the life of the world.

I am sure you are aware that Trinitarians have been responding to Arians and others concerning 1 Cor 15 for over a 1000 years. What is your response to the Trinitarian underrstanding of the passage?

I responded to 1 Cor 15 already. There is nothing in it that a Trinitarian would disagree with.

kind regards

ThoroughlyFurnished.blogspot.com

[Gibs]

Troyjs

He took upon Him our flesh, but it is the Father that determines the Blood of the offspring, so take it as you care to. It is very clear the Father was in Him and dwelt in the body prepared for Him.

And no trinitarians don't see 1 Cor 15:24-28 as I do as they do not see that Jesus after it all is taken care of He returns the Deity vested in Him back to the Father and the Father is then declared to be all in all. You must see He was not all in all when a part of Him was in His Redeemer. God with us in our and His the Father's Redeemer also, not to redeem the Father but sent of the Father to Redeem us.

Isa 44:6 declares "His" Redeemer.

There is no trinity, 1 Jo 5:7 is correct,

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.