RE: Father, Son & Holy Ghost....3 gods.

[Gustave]

This comment and questions was placed in the "unpublished writings" thread. I will continue this in the trinity thread:

Originally Posted By: John317

Originally Posted By: Gibs

I do not care to use her writings to show there is not three Gods. Really I don't find she did either.

You are right here, Gibs. There is not three Gods. What there is is one God who is manifested as Three Persons. We worship one God.

You define "GOD" as a "unity of three co-eternal Persons" See http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/ No. 2.

Therefore, you worship a "unity" or a committee

Please, give me a "thus saith the LORD" which commands a person to worship of a "unity" or committee.

Did Jesus Christ worship a "unity" or a committee??

Do I understand you in that you do not believe in the Trinity Doctrine?

...And believe that there is one person who manifests Himself differently?

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

This comment and questions was placed in the "unpublished writings" thread. I will continue this in the trinity thread:

Originally Posted By: John317

Originally Posted By: Gibs

I do not care to use her writings to show there is not three Gods. Really I don't find she did either.

You are right here, Gibs. There is not three Gods. What there is is one God who is manifested as Three Persons. We worship one God.

You define "GOD" as a "unity of three co-eternal Persons" See http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/ No. 2.

Therefore, you worship a "unity" or a committee

Please, give me a "thus saith the LORD" which commands a person to worship of a "unity" or committee.

Did Jesus Christ worship a "unity" or a committee??

Do I understand you in that you do not believe in the Trinity Doctrine?

...And believe that there is one person who manifests Himself differently?

The question I address is: Does the Seventh-day Adventist General Conference fundamental belief number 2 have a "Thus Saith the Lord" support in the Holy Scriptures.

[Windsor]

Thus saith the Lord, "Let Us make man in Our image".

[Dr. Waite]

Thus saith the Lord, "Let Us make man in Our image".

WHO ARE THE "US"?

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: Windsor

Thus saith the Lord, "Let Us make man in Our image".

WHO ARE THE "US"?

Do you believe that one of the "US".....

...Could mutate from Perfectly Holy to a sinner.

...Then cease to exist eternally after one of the "US" annihilated the one that sinned?

What would have to happen to God for God to deny Himself....

...And do what Scripture says God absolutely CAN'T do?

[John317]

John317 wrote:

“Martin Luther was not a genuine prophet of God. He was a great preacher and a great student of the Bible-- a great leader in the Reformation-- but no prophet. He never even claimed that God sent him messages for the church through dreams and visions.”

Did Ellen ever claim to be a prophet?

Actually, yes, she did. She said that her work included that of prophet. Her exact words were, "My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there. It embraces much more..." "My work includes much more than this name [prophetess] signifies."

Here is everything she said on the subject, and it shows clearly that she never denied that she was a genuine prophet of God who received thousands of messages from God through dreams and visions, etc. She explains why she didn't make a claim to be title of prophet.

Quote:

Last night, in vision, I was standing before an assembly of our people, bearing a decided testimony regarding present truth and present duty. After the discourse, many gathered about me, asking questions. They desired so many explanations about this point, and that point, and another point, that I said, "One at a time, if you please, lest you confuse me." {1SM 31.3}

And then I appealed to them, saying: "For years you have had many evidences that the Lord has given me a work to do. These evidences could scarcely have been greater than they are. Will you brush away all these evidences as a cobweb, at the suggestion of a man's unbelief? That which makes my heart ache is the fact that many who are now perplexed and tempted are those who have had abundance of evidence and opportunity to consider and pray and understand; and yet they do not discern the nature of the sophistries that are presented to influence them to reject the warnings God has given to save them from the delusions of these last days." {1SM 31.4}

Some have stumbled over the fact that I said I did not

32

claim to be a prophet; [REFERENCE IS HERE MADE TO A DISCOURSE GIVEN AT BATTLE CREEK, OCTOBER 2, 1904, IN WHICH SHE SAID, "I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE A PROPHETESS."--COMPILERS.] and they have asked, Why is this? {1SM 31.5}

I have had no claims to make, only that I am instructed that I am the Lord's messenger; that He called me in my youth to be His messenger, to receive His word, and to give a clear and decided message in the name of the Lord Jesus. {1SM 32.1}

Early in my youth I was asked several times, Are you a prophet? I have ever responded, I am the Lord's messenger. I know that many have called me a prophet, but I have made no claim to this title. My Saviour declared me to be His messenger. "Your work," He instructed me, "is to bear My word. Strange things will arise, and in your youth I set you apart to bear the message to the erring ones, to carry the word before unbelievers, and with pen and voice to reprove from the Word actions that are not right. Exhort from the Word. I will make My Word open to you. It shall not be as a strange language. In the true eloquence of simplicity, with voice and pen, the messages that I give shall be heard from one who has never learned in the schools. My Spirit and My power shall be with you. {1SM 32.2}

"Be not afraid of man, for My shield shall protect you. It is not you that speaketh: it is the Lord that giveth the messages of warning and reproof. Never deviate from the truth under any circumstances. Give the light I shall give you. The messages for these last days shall be written in books, and shall stand immortalized, to testify against those who have once rejoiced in the light, but who have been led to give it up because of the seductive influences of evil." {1SM 32.3}

Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word "prophet" signifies. {1SM 32.4}

When this work was first given me, I begged the Lord to lay the burden on someone else. The work was so large and broad and deep that I feared I could not do it. But by

33

His Holy Spirit the Lord has enabled me to perform the work which He gave me to do. {1SM 32.5}

A Work of Many Features

God has made plain to me the various ways in which He would use me to carry forward a special work. Visions have been given me, with the promise, "If you deliver the messages faithfully and endure to the end, you shall eat of the fruit of the tree of life, and drink of the water of the river of life." {1SM 33.1}

The Lord gave me great light on health reform. In connection with my husband, I was to be a medical missionary worker. I was to set an example to the church by taking the sick to my home and caring for them. This I have done, giving the women and children vigorous treatment. I was also to speak on the subject of Christian temperance, as the Lord's appointed messenger. I engaged heartily in this work, and spoke to large assemblies on temperance in its broadest and truest sense. {1SM 33.2}

I was instructed that I must ever urge upon those who profess to believe the truth, the necessity of practicing the truth. This means sanctification, and sanctification means the culture and training of every capability for the Lord's service. {1SM 33.3}

I was charged not to neglect or pass by those who were being wronged. I was specially charged to protest against any arbitrary or overbearing action toward the ministers of the gospel by those having official authority. Disagreeable though the duty may be, I am to reprove the oppressor, and plead for justice. I am to present the necessity of maintaining justice and equity in all our institutions. {1SM 33.4}

If I see those in positions of trust neglecting aged ministers, I am to present the matter to those whose duty it is to care for them. Ministers who have faithfully done their work are not to be forgotten or neglected when they have become feeble in health. Our conferences are not to disregard the needs of those who have borne the burdens of the work. It was after John had grown old in the service of the Lord that he was exiled to Patmos. And on that

34

lonely isle he received more communications from heaven than he had received during the rest of his lifetime. {1SM 33.5}

After my marriage I was instructed that I must show a special interest in motherless and fatherless children, taking some under my own charge for a time, and then finding homes for them. Thus I would be giving others an example of what they could do. {1SM 34.1}

Although called to travel often, and having much writing to do, I have taken children of three and five years of age, and have cared for them, educated them, and trained them for responsible positions. I have taken into my home from time to time boys from ten to sixteen years of age, giving them motherly care, and a training for service. I have felt it my duty to bring before our people that work for which those in every church should feel a responsibility. {1SM 34.2}

While in Australia I carried on this same line of work, taking into my home orphan children, who were in danger of being exposed to temptations that might cause the loss of their souls. {1SM 34.3}

In Australia we [REFERENCE HERE IS TO HER ASSOCIATE WORKERS. JAMES WHITE DIED IN 1881.] also worked as Christian medical missionaries. At times I made my home in Cooranbong an asylum for the sick and afflicted. My secretary, who had received a training in the Battle Creek Sanitarium, stood by my side, and did the work of a missionary nurse. No charge was made for her services, and we won the confidence of the people by the interest that we manifested in the sick and suffering. After a time the Health Retreat at Cooranbong was built, and then we were relieved of this burden. {1SM 34.4}

No Boastful Claims

To claim to be a prophetess is something that I have never done. If others call me by that name, I have no controversy with them. But my work has covered so many lines that I cannot call myself other than a messenger, sent to bear a message from the Lord to His people, and to take up work in any line that He points out.

35

{1SM 34.5}

When I was last in Battle Creek, I said before a large congregation that I did not claim to be a prophetess. Twice I referred to this matter, intending each time to make the statement, "I do not claim to be a prophetess." If I spoke otherwise than this, let all now understand that what I had in mind to say was that I do not claim the title of prophet or prophetess. {1SM 35.1}

I understood that some were anxious to know if Mrs. White still held the same views that she did years ago when they had heard her speak in the sanitarium grove, in the Tabernacle, and at the camp meetings held in the suburbs of Battle Creek. I assured them that the message she bears today is the same that she has borne during the sixty years of her public ministry. She has the same service to do for the Master that was laid upon her in her girlhood. She receives lessons from the same Instructor. The directions given her are, "Make known to others what I have revealed to you. Write out the messages that I give you, that the people may have them." This is what she has endeavored to do. {1SM 35.2}

I have written many books, and they have been given a wide circulation. Of myself I could not have brought out the truth in these books, but the Lord has given me the help of His Holy Spirit. These books, giving the instruction that the Lord has given me during the past sixty years, contain light from heaven, and will bear the test of investigation. {1SM 35.3}

At the age of seventy-eight I am still toiling. We are all in the hands of the Lord. I trust in Him; for I know that he will never leave nor forsake those who put their trust in Him. I have committed myself to His keeping. {1SM 35.4}

"And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry" (1 Timothy 1:12).--The Review and Herald, July 26, 1906. {1SM 35.5}

The Work of a Prophet and More

During the discourse, I said that I did not claim to be a prophetess. Some were surprised at this statement, and as

36

much is being said in regard to it, I will make an explanation. Others have called me a prophetess, but I have never assumed that title. I have not felt that it was my duty thus to designate myself. Those who boldly assume that they are prophets in this our day are often a reproach to the cause of Christ. {1SM 35.6}

My work includes much more than this name signifies. I regard myself as a messenger, entrusted by the Lord with messages for His people.--Letter 55, 1905. {1SM 36.1}

I am now instructed that I am not to be hindered in my work by those who engage in suppositions regarding its nature, whose minds are struggling with so many intricate problems connected with the supposed work of a prophet. My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there. It embraces much more than the minds of those who have been sowing the seeds of unbelief can comprehend.--Letter 244, 1906. (Addressed to elders of Battle Creek church.) {1SM 36.2}

Receiving and Imparting the Light

As inquiries are frequently made as to my state in vision, and after I come out, I would say that when the Lord sees fit to give a vision, I am taken into the presence of Jesus and angels, and am entirely lost to earthly things. I can see no farther than the angel directs me. My attention is often directed to scenes transpiring upon earth. {1SM 36.3}

At times I am carried far ahead into the future and shown what is to take place. Then again I am shown things as they have occurred in the past. After I come out of vision I do not at once remember all that I have seen, and the matter is not so clear before me until I write, then the scene rises before me as was presented in vision, and I can write with freedom. Sometimes the things which I have seen are hid from me after I come out of vision, and I cannot call them to mind until I am brought before a company where that vision applies, then the things which I have seen come to my mind with force. I am just as dependent upon the Spirit of the Lord in relating or writing a vision, as in having the vision. It is impossible for me to

37

call up things which have been shown me unless the Lord brings them before me at the time that He is pleased to have me relate or write them.--Spiritual Gifts (1860), vol. 2, pp. 292, 293. {1SM 36.4}

Although I am as dependent upon the Spirit of the Lord in writing my views as I am in receiving them, yet the words I employ in describing what I have seen are my own, unless they be those spoken to me by an angel, which I always enclose in marks of quotation.--The Review and Herald, Oct. 8, 1867. {1SM 37.1}

[John317]

The question I address is: Does the Seventh-day Adventist General Conference fundamental belief number 2 have a "Thus Saith the Lord" support in the Holy Scriptures.

Yes, the SDA FB 2-5 have valid Bible support. They do have a "Thus said the Lord" as well as a "Thus saith the Spirit of prophecy," but sadly many people refuse to be persuaded by it.

[John317]

]Martin Luther was not a genuine prophet of God. He was a great preacher and a great student of the Bible-- a great leader in the Reformation-- but no prophet. He never even claimed that God sent him messages for the church through dreams and visions.

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

Did she ever claim to be infallible?

Of course not. In fact, she rejected the suggestion that she was infallible. No human being except Christ is infallible. The truth of Ellen White's messages does not depend on her being infallible.

No prophet of the entire Bible ever claimed to be infallible, either, did they? So, does that mean they weren't genuine prophets or apostles of God? Of course it doesn't. Neither does it have anything to do with whether Ellen White was a genuine prophet of God.

[John317]

Martin Luther was not a genuine prophet of God. He was a great preacher and a great student of the Bible-- a great leader in the Reformation-- but no prophet. He never even claimed that God sent him messages for the church through dreams and visions.

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

Did she [Ellen White] ever say that we no longer need to search the Bible for new revelations of truth?

No. But why the question? Has anyone here suggested or implied that we shouldn't search the Scriptures for truth?

[John317]

Martin Luther was not a genuine prophet of God. He was a great preacher and a great student of the Bible-- a great leader in the Reformation-- but no prophet. He never even claimed that God sent him messages for the church through dreams and visions.

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

Did all the Bible writers claim to have had visionary experience?

No, but having visions and dreams from God is frequently a major aspect of the work of a genuine prophet of God, and Ellen White did claim to have many visions and dreams from God and she also claimed the Holy Spirit helped her to write out those dreams and visions as messages for individuals and for the church.

[John317]

Read what Ellen stated about Luther:...

I don't see anything in Ellen White's writings which suggests that she believed or was saying Martin Luther was a prophet of God. What statements did she make which convince you Ellen White believed Martin Luther was a genuine prophet of God?

What is a prophet?

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

The question I address is: Does the Seventh-day Adventist General Conference fundamental belief number 2 have a "Thus Saith the Lord" support in the Holy Scriptures.

Yes, the SDA FB 2-5 have valid Bible support. They do have a "Thus said the Lord" as well as a "Thus saith the Spirit of prophecy," but sadly many people refuse to be persuaded by it.

OK, THEN GIVE ME THE EXACT BOOK AND VERSE IN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES TO SUPPORT YOUR CONCLUSION THAT THERE IS A "PLAIN THUS SAITH THE LORD" WHICH STATES THAT "GOD IS A UNITY OF THREE CO-ETERNAL PERSONS".

[Windsor]

OK, THEN GIVE ME THE EXACT BOOK AND VERSE IN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES TO SUPPORT YOUR CONCLUSION THAT THERE IS A "PLAIN THUS SAITH THE LORD" WHICH STATES THAT "GOD IS A UNITY OF THREE CO-ETERNAL PERSONS".

Number 1: Caps on the internet means you're yelling.

Number 2: It would not matter if God Himself spoke to you and told you that He is a Unity of Three Co-eternal Persons. You have made up your mind. All scripture showing anything contrary to that is immediately rejected. We'll just have to agree to disagree, and I don't believe the salvation of either of us will be at stake no matter who ends up being right.

[Gibs]

Scripture always states the 3 are 1 but never that the 1 is three!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

OK, THEN GIVE ME THE EXACT BOOK AND VERSE IN THE HOLY SCRIPTURES TO SUPPORT YOUR CONCLUSION THAT THERE IS A "PLAIN THUS SAITH THE LORD" WHICH STATES THAT "GOD IS A UNITY OF THREE CO-ETERNAL PERSONS".

Number 1: Caps on the internet means you're yelling.

Number 2: It would not matter if God Himself spoke to you and told you that He is a Unity of Three Co-eternal Persons. You have made up your mind. All scripture showing anything contrary to that is immediately rejected. We'll just have to agree to disagree, and I don't believe the salvation of either of us will be at stake no matter who ends up being right.

You state: "You have made up your mind." Generally those who do not have a genuine answer to give attack the person who asks the question.

What is "prejudice"?

Merriam-Webster: an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

You state: "I don't believe the salvation of either of us will be at stake no matter who ends up being right."

We will be judged by our works. Our works are compared to the great standard - the ten commandments. The first commandment commands us to have no other gods before the only true God. According to Jesus Christ the only true God is His Father. John 17:3

[Gibs]

I don't mind caps. if they are not made with a bigger font. Used for attention getting is no crime. I do it too. I would do bold here but the bold is hardly noticeable.

But none answered Dr. Waite's question, where's the scripture. I'd like to see em too.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gustave]

But none answered Dr. Waite's question, where's the scripture. I'd like to see em too.

1 Tim 3,16

God WAS manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

As in "God".

[Nic Samojluk]

John317 wrote:

“Actually, yes, she did. She said that her work included that of prophet. Her exact words were, "My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there. It embraces much more..." "My work includes much more than this name [prophetess] signifies."”

Thank you for answering one of questions. Ellen White was given visions from God and she was instructed by God’s angels. Would you conclude that her work was superior to that of Martin Luther and the other Reformers? Was the instruction Martin Luther inferior to that of Ellen White? If Ellen’s work was superior to that of Luther, then why did she borrow so much from Sunday keeping authors? Notice how she described the Reformer’s work:

SPIRITUAL GIFTS. VOLUME 1, PAGE 120

“The angels of God moved upon Martin Luther, Melancthon, and others in different places, to thirst for the living testimony of the word of God. The enemy had come in like a flood, and the standard must be raised up against him. Luther was chosen to breast the storm, and stand up against the ire of a fallen church, and strengthen the few who were faithful to their holy profession. He was ever fearful of offending God. He tried through works to obtain the favor of God; but he was not satisfied until a gleam of light from heaven drove the darkness from his mind, and led him to trust, not in works, but in the merits of the blood of Christ; and to come to God for himself, not through popes nor confessors, but through Jesus Christ alone. O how precious was this knowledge to Luther! He prized this new and precious light which had dawned upon his dark understanding, and had driven away his superstition, higher than the richest earthly treasure. The word of God was new. Every thing was changed. The Book he had dreaded because he could not see beauty in it, was life, Life to him.”

TESTIMONIES FOR THE CHURCH VOLUME 1, PAGE 372

“Again, I was shown Martin Luther, whom God raised up to do a special work. How precious to him was the knowledge of truth revealed in the word of God! His mind was starving for something sure upon which to build his hope that God would be his Father, and heaven his home. The new and precious light which dawned upon him from the word of God was of priceless value, and he thought that if he went forth with it, he could convince the world. He stood up against the ire of a fallen church and strengthened those who with him were feasting upon the rich truths contained in the word of God. Luther was God’s chosen instrument to tear off the garb of hypocrisy from the papal church and expose her corruption. He raised his voice zealously and in the power of the Holy Spirit cried out against and rebuked the existing sins of the leaders of the people. Proclamations went forth to kill him wherever he might be found; he seemed left to the mercies of a superstitious people who were obedient to the head of the Roman Church. Yet he counted not his life dear unto himself”

Does the fact that God instructed certain people to perform the work of reform make them infallible and totally free from errors? Do their writings become the infallible interpretation of Scripture?

If the Lord could use Luther and the Reformers in spite of the fact that they were Sunday keepers, does it follow then that Ellen’s writings are infallible and free from doctrinal errors. Is there nothing else to learn from the study of Scripture?

Did Ellen ever teach that all the truths found in Scripture have already been discovered by her and revealed to her? Should we abandon the study of the Bible and concentrate on the study of the red books? Does Ellen have the final say of what Scripture means?

[Nic Samojluk]

John317 wrote:

“No. But why the question? Has anyone here suggested or implied that we shouldn't search the Scriptures for truth?”

We are trying to decide whether Ellen’s understanding of the Trinity is biblical or not. Should we allow her writings to supersede what the Bible teaches about this topic? Are her writings and her reasoning superior to the simple reading of Scripture?

Should we read what we find in John 14 with the mental construct she imposed on this subject? Should I depart from Scripture in order to follow her lead on this doctrine which was originated by Catholics in the third and fourth centuries of the Christian era?

Is it right to baptize new members using the Trinitarian formula in spite of the fact that we find not a single example of anybody ever using said formula in the New Testament? All the baptisms recorded in the N.S. ignored the Trinitarian formula. Can you explain this anomaly?

Should we ignore the testimony of Eusebius who after examining the original manuscripts which were available to him--but later destroyed by Trinitarians—concluded that the original and genuine version of Matthew 28:19 had only the name of Jesus.

Did not Jesus always emphasize that we must do everything, including prayer, in his name? Why did Jesus place so much emphasis on the idea that we must do everything in his name? Did Jesus ever say that we should pray to God in the Holy Spirit’s name?

Can you find in the N.T. a single example where the H.S. was the object of worship?

[Nic Samojluk]

John317 wrote:

“I don't see anything in Ellen White's writings which suggests that she believed or was saying Martin Luther was a prophet of God. What statements did she make which convince you Ellen White believed Martin Luther was a genuine prophet of God?”

Perhaps you need to read what Ellen wrote about Martin Luther one more time:

SPIRITUAL GIFTS. VOLUME 1, PAGE 120

“The angels of God moved upon Martin Luther, Melancthon, and others in different places, to thirst for the living testimony of the word of God. The enemy had come in like a flood, and the standard must be raised up against him. Luther was chosen to breast the storm, and stand up against the ire of a fallen church, and strengthen the few who were faithful to their holy profession. He was ever fearful of offending God. He tried through works to obtain the favor of God; but he was not satisfied until a gleam of light from heaven drove the darkness from his mind, and led him to trust, not in works, but in the merits of the blood of Christ; and to come to God for himself, not through popes nor confessors, but through Jesus Christ alone. O how precious was this knowledge to Luther! He prized this new and precious light which had dawned upon his dark understanding, and had driven away his superstition, higher than the richest earthly treasure. The word of God was new. Every thing was changed. The Book he had dreaded because he could not see beauty in it, was life, Life to him.”

TESTIMONIES FOR THE CHURCH VOLUME 1, PAGE 372

“Again, I was shown Martin Luther, whom God raised up to do a special work. How precious to him was the knowledge of truth revealed in the word of God! His mind was starving for something sure upon which to build his hope that God would be his Father, and heaven his home. The new and precious light which dawned upon him from the word of God was of priceless value, and he thought that if he went forth with it, he could convince the world. He stood up against the ire of a fallen church and strengthened those who with him were feasting upon the rich truths contained in the word of God. Luther was God’s chosen instrument to tear off the garb of hypocrisy from the papal church and expose her corruption. He raised his voice zealously and in the power of the Holy Spirit cried out against and rebuked the existing sins of the leaders of the people. Proclamations went forth to kill him wherever he might be found; he seemed left to the mercies of a superstitious people who were obedient to the head of the Roman Church. Yet he counted not his life dear unto himself”

How would you describe the work of a prophet? Is it having visions or teaching? Was Samuel’s work, the founder of the school of the prophets, major assignment to teach his students how to have visions or how to teach?

Ellen claimed to be guided by an angel of God, and she told us that Martin Luther was moved by God’s angels. Where is the difference? On what basis do you conclude that Ellen’s work was superior to that of Luther? In terms of the influence on Christianity, would you not concede that Luther’s work was of more import than that of Ellen White?

Both were led in their work by God’s angels. Do you really think that in heaven Ellen will receive a greater honor than Luther?

[Gordon1]

It's doubtful D. Waite is yelling - not his style.

Rather, he is repeating an ignored and inconvenient question.

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

But none answered Dr. Waite's question, where's the scripture. I'd like to see em too.

1 Tim 3,16

God WAS manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

As in "God".

God was manifest in the flesh alright, it was the Father that was in Him. He says so,

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.[/color]

Joh 10:30 [color:#FF0000]I and my Father are one.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

God, that is "The Father was in Christ".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gordon1]

Indeed Gibs.

[Enabled]

For what its worth:

Dr Waite asked in post#547671

Quote:

WHO ARE THE "US"?

Quote:

Satan was once an honored angel in heaven, next to Christ. His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness. His forehead was high and broad, showing great intelligence. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. But when God said to His Son, "Let us make man in our image," Satan was jealous of Jesus. He wished to be consulted concerning the formation of man, and because he was not, he was filled with envy, jealousy, and hatred. He desired to receive the highest honors in heaven next to God. {EW 145.1}

Quote:

“After the earth was created, and the beasts upon it, the Father and Son carried out their purpose, which was designed before the fall of Satan, to make man in their own image. They had wrought together in the creation of the earth and every living thing upon it. And now God says to his Son, "Let us make man in our image."” {EGW, 1SP 24, 25}.

Quote:

“In the beginning the Father and the Son had rested upon the Sabbath after Their work of creation.” {EGW, DA 769}

E.G. makes no reference to three but only the Father and his Son in the plan to create the earth and in doing so.

Quote:

"From eternity there was a complete unity between the Father and the Son. They were two, yet little short of being identical; two in individuality, yet one in spirit, and heart, and character." {YI, December 16, 1897 par. 5}

Consider prayerfully my friends that you study all things in the simplicity of the truth and not as you would desire them to be. The mystery of iniquity abounds. Desiring to be seen to be right is dangerous ground. Desiring to be in the truth no matter the cost is life in Christ.

[Gustave]

God was manifest in the flesh alright, it was the Father that was in Him. He says so,

Of course Gibs, the Father is always in the Son, in the Unity of the Holy Spirit...

...This is Trinity 101, The Persons are Inseparable.

There is NEVER a time when the Persons of the Trinty are apart from each other...

...It's ONE Substance.