Pacific Union and WO

[Woody]

But could you please provide the references to back up your claim that EGW supported WO?

He already has Gerry. But if you missed it a simple search of 'ordain' on your EGW CD should come up with your answer.

[CyberGuy]

God Has Settled This Question.--If women do the work that is not the most agreeable to many of those who labor in word and doctrine, and if their works testify that they are accomplishing a work that has been manifestly neglected, should not such labor be looked upon as being as rich in results as the work of the ordained ministers? Should it not command the hire of the laborer? . . . {Ev 493.1}

This question is not for men to settle. The Lord has settled it. You are to do your duty to the women who labor in the gospel, whose work testifies that they are essential to carrying the truth into families. Their work is just the work that must be done, and should be encouraged. In many respects a woman can impart knowledge to her sisters that a man cannot. The cause would suffer great loss without this kind of labor by women. Again and again the Lord has shown me that women teachers are just as greatly needed to do the work to which He has appointed them as are men. --Manuscript 142, 1903. {Ev 493.2}

Are not pastors teachers of the Gospal. I think this is as strong a passage as any IF ONE HAS AN OPEN MIND that is.

My aunt tells the story of a pastor who was destroyed by a female parisherner. He was seduced by her and it became known. There was no female pastors at that church. Had there been it would have been better to send in the female pastor to teach female parisherners. As EG White says woman can better reach their own sex than can men in many cases.

[CyberGuy]

It is the accompaniment of the Holy Spirit of God that prepares workers, both men and women, to

97

become pastors to the flock of God. As they cherish the thought that Christ is their companion, a holy awe, a sacred joy, will be felt by them amid all their trying experiences and all their tests. They will learn to pray as they work. They will be educated in patience, kindness, affability, and helpfulness. They will practice true Christian courtesy, bearing in mind that Christ, their companion, cannot approve of harsh, unkind words or feelings. Their words will be purified. The power of speech will be regarded as a precious talent, lent them to do a high and holy work. {GW 96.4}

[Woody]

Thank you CyberGuy ... these quotes are so clear. Appreciate you sharing them.

[CyberGuy]

Found this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/o...300b_story.html

[CyberGuy]

And WO Spreads to another Union

Mid-America Union Conference Votes to Support Ordination of Women

Submitted: Mar 9, 2012

By AT News Team

The executive committee of the Mid-America Union Conference of the Seventh-day Adventist Church this week at a regular meeting, “Voted to support the ordination of women in the Mid-America Union,” according to a news release from Martin Weber, union conference communication director.

“The committee also recognized the authority of the world church and the need for harmony across the various administrative levels of the Seventh-day Adventist faith community,” stated Tom Lemon, the union conference president. This clearly anticipates the most recent criticism from opponents to women in ministry; that to support it is somehow disloyal to the denomination despite the fact that the General Conference in Session is on record supporting the concept since 1881 and in 1990 when it voted not to move ahead with the ordination of women clergy specifically stated that there was no consensus among Adventist Bible scholars either for or against the practice.

At least two others of the nine union conferences (mid-level judicatories) in the North American Division of the denomination are already on record with the same position. Both the Columbia Union Conference and the Pacific Union Conference have officially requested the ordination of women to the gospel ministry as far back as the 1980s. Both have repeatedly renewed their support more recently.

This vote by the Mid-America Union Conference is significant in part because it is seen as a more conservative region of the Adventist membership in the United States. “If they voted this,” observed one retired church administrator, “it could undoubtedly be approved in any union in North America.” Under the General Conference Working Policy it is the union conferences that have authority to approve ordinations.

[Woody]

Very Cool CyberGuy

[olger]

Quote:

Submitted: Mar 9, 2012

That's fresh!

[CyberGuy]

Quote:

Submitted: Mar 9, 2012

That's fresh!

Still I do not remember seeing that anywhere on the forums. Certainly no forum thread by that title.

WO is spreading in the NAD. Other Unions have said they to will follow PUC if the 2014 discussion Ted Wilson has asked them to wait for does not allow WO. They will go ahead and do it then regardless of the world churches views on that.

[Felix Florimon]

The church should be on the forfront of human rights and not be embarrased by having the government force the church into the 20th century of equal rights.

We have women pastors but refuse to ordain them because of the outdated attitudes of the world Church in Africa and South America.

Personally, I feel that in God's sight, the soul of a person born in South America, Africa, Syria, Libya, Egypt, Afghanistan and Iraq is as valuable as any human soul born and living in the Pacific Union in the State of California. I would never be surprised that God's angels should feel very embarrassed with the report they have to take to Heaven regarding how much time and energy plus how many thousands of dollars were spent by the Adventist Pacific Union leadership in order to advance "the human rights" of women to be ordained as pastors when those same assets could be used to encourage the political leaders of this nation and to all the leaders of the world to give more freedom for spreading Jesus' message throughout the world that we have been created by God and that Jesus is the only way truly leading to the Father and that His teachings are the best teachings for the establishment of more civil societies.

Regarding being in the forefront of "human rights," we should never forget that trying spiritual conversion to reach a noble cause is a much more lofty and successful way of accomplishing good goals than taking the route of political arm twisting. We only need to look to this nation. This nation has championed equality between races through political arm twisting while disregarding Jesus' teachings of love, forgiveness and equality before God. What has been the end result? A higher incidence of violent death among people of the same race and a higher incidence of mass killings by mentally deranged individuals exercising their legal rights to bear arms affirmed the American courts and defended by politicians that cannot get a better way to get elected to public office because their constituents have not been taught to love and forgive as Jesus taught.

Instead of applauding the accomplishments regarding the "advance of human rights" of the American nation on its own soil and throughout the world, we should be setting an example of how much love we are able to exercise among ourselves and how much love we have for all humans born on this planet Earth by spending time, energy and financial resources for spreading Jesus' teachings throughout the entire world instead of fighting among ourselves how we are going to divide among the sexes a pie labeled "headship of the church."

God's Holy Spirit has already set the agenda that has been moving God all the heavenly angels into action: "...and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21). Now, we should spend our time, energy and financial resources in having the whole world including people of this nation to know about Jesus. Instead of wasting time, energy and financial resources among ourselves regarding the sexual gender make up of the leadership of our church, we should be spending time, energy and resources fighting against the roadblocks that Satan has established impeding the spread of the gospel to every nation, tribe, people and language.

FF

[Felix Florimon]

Someday we may be drug into the 21st century by the courts. Separation of church state will not apply any more then than it did in the Mary Kaye lawsuit. Lets hope the church will come to its senses before that day comes.

Satan has been using disgruntled people who are very unhappy with the teachings of Jesus and the writings in the Bible by Paul, John, Peter and James to create holes in the wall separating church an state in order to have the state create policies forcing people to be less and less able reachable regarding a biblical knowledge of God.

You need to understand that the courts have been used by his majesty Satan against teaching in our high schools that we are an end product of an intelligent design even though how we are born and how our body works is something much more wonderful and complicated than any machinery created by our human intelligence.

FF

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: CyberGuy

Someday we may be drug into the 21st century by the courts. Separation of church state will not apply any more then than it did in the Mary Kaye lawsuit. Lets hope the church will come to its senses before that day comes.

Satan has been using disgruntled people who are very unhappy with the teachings of Jesus and the writings in the Bible by Paul, John, Peter and James to create holes in the wall separating church an state in order to have the state create policies forcing people to be less and less able reachable regarding a biblical knowledge of God.

You need to understand that the courts have been used by his majesty Satan against teaching in our high schools that we are an end product of an intelligent design even though how we are born and how our body works is something much more wonderful and complicated than any machinery created by our human intelligence.

FF

I hope you are not doing what it appears you re doing which is to suggest that CyberGuy is being used by Satan as a disgrunted person who opposes the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of the Bible.

[Felix Florimon]

I hope you are not doing what it appears you re doing which is to suggest that CyberGuy is being used by Satan as a disgrunted person who opposes the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of the Bible.

What I said has even a more scary meaning than what you imply: Satan has the ability to use you, to use me and to use anyone who forgets about fixing our attention in our own salvation and the salvation of every living person on this Earth and switches such goal in order just to gain temporary recognition among ourselves.

Jesus once felt very unhappy with the religious thought leaders of His time when He said: "You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel" (Matthew 23:24). In today's language we have very little to gain as a church if we spend too much time and energy fighting for smaller details when millions are being forced to die without a basic right of being able to change their faith from their own religious traditions to the teachings found in the Bible. No one is able to gain anything when we are unable to see the forest from the tree.

FF

[CyberGuy]

Originally Posted By: CyberGuy

Someday we may be drug into the 21st century by the courts. Separation of church state will not apply any more then than it did in the Mary Kaye lawsuit. Lets hope the church will come to its senses before that day comes.

Satan has been using disgruntled people who are very unhappy with the teachings of Jesus and the writings in the Bible by Paul, John, Peter and James to create holes in the wall separating church an state in order to have the state create policies forcing people to be less and less able reachable regarding a biblical knowledge of God.

You need to understand that the courts have been used by his majesty Satan against teaching in our high schools that we are an end product of an intelligent design even though how we are born and how our body works is something much more wonderful and complicated than any machinery created by our human intelligence.

FF

Yes I do agree with you on that. Just this month the Calfornia legislature passed a law making it a crime for parents to send their kids to counciling if their kids have a homosexual leaning. The governor has not signed this into law but if he does you can expect christians to take this to court.

Ellen White says that God has his servants in the courts and in the halls of government. True Satens servants far outnumber Gods servants but Gods servants hold back the tide of evil.

Evil would be far far worse Ellen White tells us if we did not have the government to hold back the terrible evil that men are capabil of doing to each other.

As to this Mary Kaye lawsuit. I do believe that God used the courts in this case to right a terrible injustice. Women were paid less then men to do the same jobs simply because of their gendor. Ellen WHite spoke again and again of paying fair wages to men and women in the service of the church. NEVER did Ellen White say that one gendor should be paid less than another.

God used Babylon to punish Israel because of their injustice to the poor and widows and their greed. God in Jeremiah tells us that. I believe God uses the courts to right a wrong that the church themselves will not right dispite the century or more God gave the church to right that wrong.

[CyberGuy]

This morning on the Hope Church Channel I was watching Dwight Nelson of Pioneer Memorial church at Andrews University Berrein Springs Michigan. His topic was women in ministry.

He came out in favor of ordination of women in the ministry of the SDA church. Dwight put the texts that men use in Genesis and in Pauls writings about not allowing a women to teach a man. In both cases the original word in Hebrew is the same word use for husband and wife. In the marriage the husband has the last word but only because of the fall and that someone must make the final decision if there is disagreement.

But that does not mean that a a woman is subject to all men in and outside the church.

See that sermon by all means people. It was very informative.

[Felix Florimon]

As to this Mary Kaye lawsuit. I do believe that God used the courts in this case to right a terrible injustice. Women were paid less then men to do the same jobs simply because of their gendor. Ellen WHite spoke again and again of paying fair wages to men and women in the service of the church. NEVER did Ellen White say that one gendor should be paid less than another.

[Felix Florimon]

Just this month the Calfornia legislature passed a law making it a crime for parents to send their kids to counciling if their kids have a homosexual leaning. The governor has not signed this into law but if he does you can expect christians to take this to court.

Ellen White says that God has his servants in the courts and in the halls of government. True Satens servants far outnumber Gods servants but Gods servants hold back the tide of evil.

Evil would be far far worse Ellen White tells us if we did not have the government to hold back the terrible evil that men are capabil of doing to each other.

God has given us only a limited time through which we could be productive for His work of having as many people as possible to be saved and spend a whole eternity with Him. However, Satan's first priority is to enforce ignorance of Jesus' teachings among those who know nothing about God through Jesus and to encourage Jesus' believers to get involved in non-spiritually productive fights.

The action of the California's legislature is not more than another instance of a self-destructive behavior that the enemy of creation is putting in the hearts and minds of those who don't believe that we have a Divine Creator who, in the beginning, created the first humans as male and female from whom happy families should later come to Earth.

FF

[olger]

Olé.

[doug yowell]

Yes I do agree with you on that. Just this month the Calfornia legislature passed a law making it a crime for parents to send their kids to counciling if their kids have a homosexual leaning. The governor has not signed this into law but if he does you can expect christians to take this to court.

Ellen White says that God has his servants in the courts and in the halls of government. True Satens servants far outnumber Gods servants but Gods servants hold back the tide of evil.

Evil would be far far worse Ellen White tells us if we did not have the government to hold back the terrible evil that men are capabil of doing to each other.

God used Babylon to punish Israel because of their injustice to the poor and widows and their greed. God in Jeremiah tells us that. I believe God uses the courts to right a wrong that the church themselves will not right dispite the century or more God gave the church to right that wrong.

So is God using the California government to punish the church for it's injustice to homosexuals and other deviant sexual behaviors? Is it holding back evil or promoting it?

[CyberGuy]

This is not law yet. Governer Brown has not sighned it. He will sign it or veto it this month. We shall see what happens.

If it is signed expect christains to challenge it in court or have a proposition reversing it. That would be nice. A proposition reversing it. That would be a slap in the face to our liberal legislature.

[Felix Florimon]

So is God using the California government to punish the church for it's injustice to homosexuals and other deviant sexual behaviors? Is it holding back evil or promoting it?

The problem is not God. The real problem is in those of us who claim to be His children on Earth. We need to truly understand that God's enemy, Satan, is truly a very intelligent entity. Regretfully, those of us who claim to be believers in God do not pray enough so we could allow God's Spirit to help us set our priorities right in our fight against evil. Therefore, we end up fulfilling Jesus' very unhappy complaint against those Jewish religious leaders who considered themselves to be children of God. We just become "blind guides" who spend a great deal of energy enabling us to "strain out a gnat" and after we have spent all our energy capital straining out the gnat, the enemy comes back in order to force us to "swallow a camel" (Matthew 23:24).

FF

[doug yowell]

This is not law yet. Governer Brown has not sighned it. He will sign it or veto it this month. We shall see what happens.

If it is signed expect christains to challenge it in court or have a proposition reversing it. That would be nice. A proposition reversing it. That would be a slap in the face to our liberal legislature.

That wasn't the question.President Obama has already instructed the US Justice Dept. to not defend the governmental law which legally established heterosexual marriages as being the only legally recognized form of marriage.This, as well as many other examples of governmentally forced recognition of same sex "marriage" are already the law. Is that because God is punishing the church (thru the government)for it's failure to treat sexual deviancy justly or is it because the church has failed to exercise it's proper domain in the surrounding society or something else?

[doug yowell]

The problem is not God. The real problem is in those of us who claim to be His children on Earth. We need to truly understand that God's enemy, Satan, is truly a very intelligent entity. Regretfully, those of us who claim to be believers in God do not pray enough so we could allow God's Spirit to help us set our priorities right in our fight against evil. Therefore, we end up fulfilling Jesus' very unhappy complaint against those Jewish religious leaders who considered themselves to be children of God. We just become "blind guides" who spend a great deal of energy enabling us to "strain out a gnat" and after we have spent all our energy capital straining out the gnat, the enemy comes back in order to force us to "swallow a camel" (Matthew 23:24).

FF

The problem is never God.The question,however, is why are these things happening? A very legitimate question, I might add.

[Naomi]

The problem is never God.The question,however, is why are these things happening? A very legitimate question, I might add.

yes, a very legitimate question.

[olger]

A very very legitimate question, dear friends.

:)