A Must For Every Christian

[Gerr]

I believe that in this case Gibs stated the truth, that as our humanity is indwelt by the divinity of Christ we too can overcome as He overcame. Eph.3:14-19. We are to grow up into Christ until the full corn of His character is in the ear when the mission of the Gospel shall be completed at the end of the loud cry. Mark 4:26-29.

I think we are having different interpretations of what the statement, "as our humanity is indwelt by the divinity of Christ we too can overcome as He overcame," means. It does NOT mean we can perfectly obey. Jesus overcame by totally relying on the power of the Father. We are to overcome in the same manner, by total reliance on supernatural power. Perfect performance while living in this failing, deteriorating body of sin? If so, I'd like to know what your concept of perfection is!!!

[Gerr]

With Christ within, at our full repentance and total surrender of our will He does take abode in us.

Would you please explain/define the perfection that you are talking about that we can all achieve?

And you haven't answered my question - if we fall short of this perfection, are we toast?

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

With Christ within, at our full repentance and total surrender of our will He does take abode in us.

Would you please explain/define the perfection that you are talking about that we can all achieve?

And you haven't answered my question - if we fall short of this perfection, are we toast?

Christ in us all things are possible,

"He [God] tells us to be perfect as He is--in the same manner. We are to be centers of light and blessing to our little circle, even as He is to the universe. We have nothing of ourselves, but the light of His love shines upon us, and we are to reflect its brightness. . . . We may be perfect in our sphere, even as God is perfect in His." {ML 38.5}

Mt 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

"are we toast?", I can't be your judge, we each decide our role and possiblility. Of ourselves that isn't much.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Christ in us all things are possible,

"He [God] tells us to be perfect as He is--in the same manner. We are to be centers of light and blessing to our little circle, even as He is to the universe. We have nothing of ourselves, but the light of His love shines upon us, and we are to reflect its brightness. . . . We may be perfect in our sphere, even as God is perfect in His." {ML 38.5}

Mt 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

"are we toast?", I can't be your judge, we each decide our role and possiblility. Of ourselves that isn't much.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

IOW, you are saying that with Christ dwelling within, you will achieve sinless perfection? No more mistakes?

Have you reached that stage/state yet? If not, why not?

[Woody]

No person is perfect like Christ.

No person will EVER be perfect like Christ.

To be perfect like Christ in a sense is what Lucifer tried to be or claim.

It certainly is a tool of Satan now to get us to think we must achieve.

He has not changed his ways. He will always tell us to strive and for us to think we can achieve perfection.

No doubt a tool of Satan.

[Gail]

No person is perfect like Christ.

No person will EVER be perfect like Christ.

To be perfect like Christ in a sense is what Lucifer tried to be or claim.

It certainly is a tool of Satan now to get us to think we must achieve.

He has not changed his ways. He will always tell us to strive and for us to think we can achieve perfection.

No doubt a tool of Satan.

No person can be perfect like Christ. That is why we claim HIS righteousness.

Having said that, the Bible does enjoin us in a few places to be perfect as well as to be holy. Some will translate that as being complete.

What we do know is that we do need to decide to be under grace. We need to align ourselves under God's banner and allow the Holy Spirit to do his good work in us. But all we can claim is the righteousness of Christ from His life and death in our behalf. By faith we are accounted acceptable by His perfection and by faith we are to walk with the Spirit abiding in us.

[Gail]

It's a science, I know, and a mystery at the same time. But THAT is where the power is, in Jesus and what He did and is doing for us in the power of the Comforter.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Woody

No person is perfect like Christ.

No person will EVER be perfect like Christ.

To be perfect like Christ in a sense is what Lucifer tried to be or claim.

It certainly is a tool of Satan now to get us to think we must achieve.

He has not changed his ways. He will always tell us to strive and for us to think we can achieve perfection.

No doubt a tool of Satan.

No person can be perfect like Christ. That is why we claim HIS righteousness.

Having said that, the Bible does enjoin us in a few places to be perfect as well as to be holy. Some will translate that as being complete.

What we do know is that we do need to decide to be under grace. We need to align ourselves under God's banner and allow the Holy Spirit to do his good work in us. But all we can claim is the righteousness of Christ from His life and death in our behalf. By faith we are accounted acceptable by His perfection and by faith we are to walk with the Spirit abiding in us.

[Gibs]

The secret, or mystery Woody as Paul stated is the answer and the power. He gives us His power to do what He has ask of us and it is entirely possible if we have the faith and believe and know He in us gives us that power. EGW speaks a lot on this,

"The work of consecration must go forward and upward, elevating the mind, elevating the speech. Thus we become more and more heavenly minded, better prepared for translation. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Man is to be perfect in his sphere, as God is perfect in his sphere. How can we attain so lofty a standard? The required perfection is based on the perfection of Christ. In Him is our righteousness. He spoke these words, and he was by birth a human being, though allied to divinity. Every provision has been made that man should be a partaker of the divine nature. God never issues a command without furnishing the grace essential to carry it out. He says, "Without me ye can do nothing." --Ms 157, 1898, pp. 1, 2. ("Be Ye Therefore Perfect," typed December 5, 1898.) {6MR 5.2}

That is not the broad way that has come into all the churches of Chistendom.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

GOD can do ANYthing most certainly. But also - just because a provision is there - does not mean it will be totally used nor that it is required to be used.

[Gerr]

Now, let's see. Christ was born holy and sinless. He maintained that sinlessness.

I was born sinfull. Now I'm expected to achieve the perfection of Christ in a "body of sin"?

Do you see what's wrong with that picture?

Have you reached that stage/state of perfection yet? If not, when? If you don't have it now & you die suddenly in an accident, are you toast?

[Overaged]

Now, let's see. Christ was born holy and sinless. He maintained that sinlessness.

I was born sinfull. Now I'm expected to achieve the perfection of Christ in a "body of sin"?

Do you see what's wrong with that picture?

Have you reached that stage/state of perfection yet? If not, when? If you don't have it now & you die suddenly in an accident, are you toast?

[Woody]

Now, let's see. Christ was born holy and sinless. He maintained that sinlessness.

I was born sinfull. Now I'm expected to achieve the perfection of Christ in a "body of sin"?

Do you see what's wrong with that picture?

Have you reached that stage/state of perfection yet? If not, when? If you don't have it now & you die suddenly in an accident, are you toast?

Now - everytime i eat breakfast i will be thinking of him.

[Overaged]

What about lunch and supper? lol

[Gibs]

Nothing bad wrong there Woody, maybe a little overlooked understanding. He took our human fallen nature and had to overcome our tendencies to sin the same as we and by taking no power but we can have to do the same.

He proved it can be done. The Father in Him, and we have the same power, Christ in us. When Christ is within Satan and his angels see that indwelling and know they are defeated foes by Him and as long as we don't put Christ out they dare not touch you.

Woody, the fact is, now we have no excuse!

For we can and must be "dead" to sin and ALIVE in Him, Paul has it right,

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The Greater one is in you than Satan and all his angels,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

I don't plan on getting to Heaven through that method Gibs. But you are free to.

My plan is to get to heaven on the basis of Jesus's life covering mine so that my life is not seen but covered by the blood of Jesus.

I will be sinning till the day I die. My life will never be good enough. I must have the robe of Christ to cover my life full of sin.

But as I said - you may be different and are free to try to get to heaven based on how well you do in this life. Good LUck.

[Gibs]

Thanks Woody on the good luck wish. I am not one on luck. What is the factor is Christ within and all things are possible. That is not a matter of wishful luck but a wonderful sure promise. It is like Jesus said, "it is the Father in me that does the works". We now can echo it too, "it is Christ in me that does the works".

Mt 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Who does the works?

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

And Paul adds some more,

Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Ro 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

No thanks Gibs. I'm not interested in that kind of religion. That's why I continue to wish you luck. You will need it.

[Gibs]

Sorry Woody, better than luck must be had and it is Christ within and we are more than conquerors.

Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Sorry Woody, better than luck must be had and it is Christ within and we are more than conquerors.

Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Thanks Gibs - but I don't need what you are talking about. I have the assurance of God through the sacrifice of Jesus. You will need a lot of luck to be able to use the power of God to live a Holy enough life to answer the curse of the Law.

That's why I wish you much luck. Hope you can do the impossible. OH YES - through Christ right. If Christ thought you could use His power to be perfect and answer the curse - He would not have needed to die for you.

[Overaged]

Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

[Gibs]

OV, you better read and rationalise the verses before those two, the servant was paid in that for serving His master he got to eat too.

Not in context of the discussion.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

What is the factor is Christ within and all things are possible. That is not a matter of wishful luck but a wonderful sure promise. It is like Jesus said, "it is the Father in me that does the works". We now can echo it too, "it is Christ in me that does the works".

Gibs

_______________

When this is our experience, God will have a people through whom He can finish the work and cut it short in righteousness (Rom.9:28) and then the end will come.

sky

[skyblue888]

"In the work of God humanity can originate nothing." C.O.L.418.

So much for any man trying to live righteously on his own!

So it is God who is to work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. It is His good pleasure that we live a life in harmony with His holy law. (Phil.2:13)

We say that we can never copy Jesus the Pattern. Yet we read,

"His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess if they will be in subjection to God as He was." D.A.664.

"That Christ may dwell in your heart by faith... that you might be filled with all the fullness of God." Eph.3:14,19.

I believe that the great controversy has been allowed to continue and will continue until God has a people on this earth who will demonstrate once and for all that the law can be kept as Jesus kept it for He was tempted in all points like as we are yet without sinning.

This is the sealing of the people of God in these last days and then the end will come.

sky

[Woody]

Quote:

will continue until God has a people on this earth who will demonstrate once and for all that the law can be kept as Jesus kept it

Wouldn't matter one iota towards one's salvation - which is ONLY obtained through the works of Christ on the cross and on this earth - not through the works that HE does in US.