A Must For Every Christian

[Gibs]

Rudywoofs, Yes if one is really sleeping. If one has sining type dreams it shows one they have'nt put the thoughts away I would say. I am not much of a dreamer myself.

But yes ye all, we are to be perfect as He expects us to be. He gives each His power if we will take hold of it, if we don't who is to blame, not Jesus.

That Narrow Way Jesus tells us of is an upward walk, we grow as we go. Look to Him for Power to Overcome any downfalls you have.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

OV and Gerry,

Here is a couple verses to consider,

1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Rudywoofs, Yes if one is really sleeping. If one has sining type dreams it shows one they have'nt put the thoughts away I would say. I am not much of a dreamer myself.

But yes ye all, we are to be perfect as He expects us to be. He gives each His power if we will take hold of it, if we don't who is to blame, not Jesus.

That Narrow Way Jesus tells us of is an upward walk, we grow as we go. Look to Him for Power to Overcome any downfalls you have.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Have you conquered all of your downfalls?

[skyblue888]

If you don't mind, let us look at it from the point of view of John 6:63 with Mrs. White's direct commentary on these words.

"The Words that I SPEAK unto you, they are Spirit and they are life."

"In every command and in every promise of the Word of God is the power, the very life of God by which the command MAY be fulfilled and the promise realized. He who by faith receives the Word is receiving the very life and character of God." C.O.L.38.

If that is so, why should there be any doubt in the minds of God's people whether it is possible to live a life in harmony with the law if in every command of that law is the power, the very life of God by which the command may be fulfilled?

When received as the voice of God speaking to the soul, every command of the law of God becomes a promise, an "exceedingly great and precious promise by which we become partatkers of the divine nature," (2 Peter 1:4) and does not Christ's divine nature able to fill up the measure of the law's demands?

Is it not thus and thus only that we can overcome as Jesus overcame?

sky

[Overaged]

If you don't mind, let us look at it from the point of view of John 6:63 with Mrs. White's direct commentary on these words.

"The Words that I SPEAK unto you, they are Spirit and they are life."

"In every command and in every promise of the Word of God is the power, the very life of God by which the command MAY be fulfilled and the promise realized. He who by faith receives the Word is receiving the very life and character of God." C.O.L.38.

If that is so, why should there be any doubt in the minds of God's people whether it is possible to live a life in harmony with the law if in every command of that law is the power, the very life of God by which the command may be fulfilled?

When received as the voice of God speaking to the soul, every command of the law of God becomes a promise, an "exceedingly great and precious promise by which we become partatkers of the divine nature," (2 Peter 1:4) and does not Christ's divine nature able to fill up the measure of the law's demands?

Is it not thus and thus only that we can overcome as Jesus overcame?

sky

I am not sure why you & Gibs will not answer this question directly. We are asking you for a personal response of yes or no. Have you been perfect today? We want to know that about you personally. Are YOU in perfect harmony with the law right now? Have YOU conquered all impure thought?

[skyblue888]

Over, the issue is not about anything except what the Word of God teaches, whether we believe the Word or not.

If we believe what the Word teaches, there is no issue.

sky

[Overaged]

Over, the issue is not about anything except what the Word of God teaches, whether we believe the Word or not.

If we believe what the Word teaches, there is no issue.

sky

So you & Gibs are going to 'tell us what to believe' on how to be perfect; yet not discuss if you are or not? This is not a question about do we believe the Word. This is a question on if/how we can be perfect; if we can be free from sinning, if we can be in harmony with the law, if we can be free of impure thought; etc etc, and yet you two won't even give us a simple yes or no if you yourselves have attained unto these things? I think I am right on the mark as to what this is about.

My question to you & Gibs remains as very valid here: Have you been in harmony with the law today? Did you have a "perfect" day free from all taint of disharmony with the law? This is what you are telling us to do. We want to know if you have done it.

[Gibs]

OV,

Our boast,

Ps 44:8 In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah.

It is Him in us that does the works, our boast cannot be of ourselves, we have nothing of which to boast. Are we perfect as He expects?, only He knows, we must keep growing and attaining and looking higher and gaining higher ground on that narrow way and upward Way He has made.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

OA -- Their argument is a dead end. It holds no water. They have no choice but to avoid and deny what they are holding up as Gospel.

[Overaged]

OV,

Our boast,

Ps 44:8 In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah.

It is Him in us that does the works, our boast cannot be of ourselves, we have nothing of which to boast. Are we perfect as He expects?, only He knows, we must keep growing and attaining and looking higher and gaining higher ground on that narrow way and upward Way He has made.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Alright brother. And in the Name of your "boast;" how bout a personal testimony on your being perfect, and being in perfect harmony with the law?

See 1 John 1:1-3, and Rev 12:11

We, whom you are telling to do something here, need to know that people can do this; and you need to let us know that you are.

[Woody]

Surely if this kind of a belief system was true - we would see the fruits of it. But I dare to say - every human being I've seen in my lifetime has not lived up to their standard of righteousness.

[OzarkWoman]

Surely if this kind of a belief system was true - we would see the fruits of it. But I dare to say - every human being I've seen in my lifetime has not lived up to their standard of righteousness.

AMEN and AMEN!!!!

[Gibs]

Well your question is answered by Jesus,

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

With the new age theology that little strait gate isn't being found by many and then the way is too narrow for the broadway people want.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

May be the following will help:

"A healthy man, who is able to attend to the vocations of life and who goes forth day after day to his labor with buoyant spirits and with a healthy current of blood flowing through his veins, does not call attention of every one he meets to his soundness of body. Health and vigor are the natural conditions of his life, and therefore he is SCARCELY CONSCIOUS that he is in the enjoyment of such a boon.

THUS IT IS WITH THE RIGHTEOUS MAN. He is UNCONSCIOUS of his goodness and piety. Religious principle has become the spring of his life and conduct, and it is just as natural for him to bear the fruits of the Spirit as for the fig tree to bear figs or for the rosebush to yield roses... His life is hid with Christ in God; YET HE DOES NOT BOAST OF THIS, NOR SEEMS CONSCIOUS OF IT." E.G. White, The Sanctified Life, 12,13.

The apostle Paul was such a man. Though he would sacrifice life itself rather than knowingly commit one wrong act, (C.O.L.161) at the end of his life he confessed himself to be the chief of sinners. 1 Timothy 1:15.

He was imbued with the Spirit of the Gospel, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of meekness.

sky

[skyblue888]

Well your question is answered by Jesus,

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

With the new age theology that little strait gate isn't being found by many and then the way is too narrow for the broadway people want.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Well taken, Gibs.

sky

[Woody]

Amazing how long some can avoid the question at hand. [Woody shaking his head]

[skyblue888]

Mrs. White, commenting on the 1888 message, spoke of "the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into your life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ and not your own righteousness, you will not depend upon what you can do or what you will do," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." Faith & Works,65,66,27.

We know that this precious message was resisted in 1888. (1 S.M.234-5). Will we resist this light again in our day before the message swells into the loud cry to the world?

Since Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything; since it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God (T.M.82), then why should we not lay right hold upon the merits of Christ to avail ourselves of Christ's righteousness? Being clothed with His righteousness, we will not depend upon what we can do or what we will do for Christ by the Spirit will work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure as it is expressed in the precepts of His holy law.

Yes or no?

sky

[Woody]

Legalism was promoted then and continues to be the end time temptation. Folks it all started with Lucifier and will end with him.

btw - still waiting

[Gerr]

Can one be "perfect" while one is asleep?

IMO, no, because you are still in a "body of sin" (Ro 6:6), in whose members/parts is indwelt by the very principle of sin, Ro 7:23. So, whether awake or asleep, I am imperfect. That's why this body has to be transformed at the coming of our Lord.

Quote:

echh..."perfection" is such an obtuse word. So is the phrase, "without flaw".

Obtuse if we do not define our terms. That's why I have asked Gibs & Sky what their understanding of "perfection" is, but I don't recall seeing one. For purposes of communication, I try to stick to the commonly accepted definition:

per•fec•tion \pər-ˈfek-shən\ noun

[Middle English perfeccioun, from Anglo-French perfection, from Latin perfection-, perfectio, from perficere] 13th century

1 : the quality or state of being perfect: as

a : freedom from fault or defect : FLAWLESSNESS

b : MATURITY

c : the quality or state of being saintly

2 a : an exemplification of supreme excellence

b : an unsurpassable degree of accuracy or excellence

3 : the act or process of perfecting

per•fec•tion•ism \-shə-ˌni-zəm\ noun

circa 1846

1 a : the doctrine that the perfection of moral character constitutes a person’s highest good

b : the theological doctrine that a state of freedom from sin is attainable on earth

2 : a disposition to regard anything short of perfection as unacceptable — per•fec•tion•ist \-sh(ə-)nist\ noun or adjective — per•fec•tion•is•tic \-ˌfek-shə-ˈnis-tik\ adjective

Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster's collegiate dictionary. (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, Mass.: Merriam-Webster, Inc.

IOW, If something is perfect, I can't improve on it. It is the ultimate.

Quote:

Thoughts are so emotionally-driven. And emotions are notoriously adept at listening to the devil sitting on one's shoulder.

Thoughts can be driven also by things we see, hear, taste, or whatever the senses encounter. That's why my favorite extra-biblical author said: "Guard well the avenues to the soul."

[Gerr]

OV and Gerry,

Here is a couple verses to consider,

1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Gibs, when you hold up what you say is an attainable standard, you should be able to give a personal testimony that you are doing it or that somebody has done it. A theory is false unless verified by experience. Have you achieved perfection yet? I mean the kind of perfection that cannot be surpassed or improved upon.

Here is are some verses that go with 1 Jn 3:6:

‎ESV ‎‎1 Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. ‎‎5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. ‎‎6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. ‎‎7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. ‎‎8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. ‎‎9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. ‎‎10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

How do you understand what it means to "practice sinning?"

And what did John mean when he said:

"All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death." 1 Jn 5:17

And AGAIN, I ask you a very basic question: At what point is a sinner saved?

[phkrause]

With that philosophy Gibs - you would place Lucifer in Heaven.

No Woody, but this will: I will always sin. But praise God - I sin and He forgives.

God accepts each person where they are at and will restore them at the Second Coming.

Unless we ask for forgiveness, he will not forgive

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

With that philosophy Gibs - you would place Lucifer in Heaven.

No Woody, but this will: I will always sin. But praise God - I sin and He forgives.

God accepts each person where they are at and will restore them at the Second Coming.

Unless we ask for forgiveness, he will not forgive

Thanks for expanding on my post. Most certainly true.

[Gerr]

Mrs. White, commenting on the 1888 message, spoke of "the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into your life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ and not your own righteousness, you will not depend upon what you can do or what you will do," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." Faith & Works,65,66,27.

Please, analyse what she is saying. Where does it say that I CAN achieve, take possession of Christ's righteousness except accepting it by faith? It is "the righteousness of God" that is reckoned/imputed into our account. You even high-lighted "Clothed with the righteousness of Christ AND NOT YOUR OWN RIGHTEOUSS, YOU WILL NOT DEPEND UPON WHAT YOU CAN DO OR WHAT YOU WILL DO, FOR CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS ACCOMPLISHES EVERYTHING."

Yet you and Gibs are trying to tell me I MUST achieve perfection or I'm toast!

Quote:

We know that this precious message was resisted in 1888. (1 S.M.234-5). Will we resist this light again in our day before the message swells into the loud cry to the world?

On the contrary, my friend, it is the message that it is Christ's righteousness ALONE that will entitle us to heaven that is being rejected. You and Gibs are suggesting we MUST add perfection to the perfect righteousness of Christ!!!

[Gerr]

Boy, you & Gibs can sure whistle Dixie forever!

You two keep ignoring very basic salvational issue questions.

[Gibs]

Well fellas,

It is not me that sets the place of how perfect but He does tellus we are to be perfect. Now we know that is not the perfect as if we never had sin, as He has stated, we are to be overcomers, put it away. No you are harping on the extreme of the idea. Take it as EGW states, As Jesus did as one of us or perfect in our sphere as He is in His Sphere. Our surroundings limit our perfection and He understands that. Don't make a mountain out of a molehill.

He gives you the power to do what He expects, take it and doit, it is our calling. Study out His words on the thing and make sure you are honest in giving it your best and not your least.

Eternal life is at stake so we don't want to count ourselves out because we refused to do a thing we are empowerd to do as we know it He who is in you does the works.

There's really no problem to it, just will to do it and it will be done, your will His will. You will be in like Flynn as the old saying goes.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.