A Must For Every Christian

[Gibs]

Samie,

I think you should realize yes we are saved by grace for sure but only after repentance and conversion. Then He truly forgives all past sins, transgressions. Then we are to be "dead to sin"

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Yes I know of the "new age theology of salvation" well. It began to blossom in some in her day and she spoke out solid against it.

We are not to continue in sin but to become overcomers of committing sin. His promises are only for the overcomer.

Man has tried to make that strait scrapping off gate big and wide so it don't take off the worldly baggage and then make that narrow way a broad highway the whole world could easily travel with all it's great load of junk.

Jesus said few would find it and go through it and stay on it, it is too narrow for any of the world to get on.

Christ in you the hope of glory is the answer!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Samie,

The "New Age Theology" is the distortion of the True Saving Gospel.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Another distortion of the gospel highlighted in blue:

Samie,

I think you should realize yes we are saved by grace for sure but only after repentance and conversion. Then He truly forgives all past sins, transgressions. Then we are to be "dead to sin"

...

[Samie]

Forgiveness is in the first dimension; repentance is in the 2nd dimension of the gospel.

[Samie]

Samie,

The "New Age Theology" is the distortion of the True Saving Gospel.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Yes it is, brother. And that is why I don't believe in it.

I believe in what Scriptures say about the gospel.

[Gibs]

Samie,

First is repentance before forgiveness, forgiveness is ready and waiting for the proud heart to be broken and the will surrendered allowing Him to be it's Master.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

There seems to be a taboo in saying that we are saved in our sins - but we truly ARE. If we were perfect - we would not need to be saved. But even as we sin - we are saved for Christ died for those sins.

[skyblue888]

The last thing one ever wants to try is try to be perfect. God does not ask anyone to try to be perfect. For man to try to be perfect in thought, in word, and in deed, is to attempt an impossibility.

But God commands us to be perfect and His commands are self-fulfilling. We do not have to do it. We are to let the Word accomplish what is said in that word as the apostle Paul wrote, "When you received the Word which you heard from us, you did not receive it as the word of man but as it is in truth the Word of God which effectually works in you who believe," (1 Thess.2:13) because the creative energy that called the worlds into existence is in His word, not written merely, but spoken!

It is His work to make us perfect according to His will and "In the work of God humanity can originate nothing." C.O.L.418.

He invites us to rest in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour and in His word for "All the words of My mouth," says the Lord, "are with righteousness." Prov.8:8.

"We who have believed do enter into rest." Heb.4:3.

As we rest in His merits and righteousness which is in His word, we cease from our own works.

Faith is the "labor" by which we enter into God's rest. Heb.4:11,3.

sky

[Samie]

Samie,

First is repentance before forgiveness, forgiveness is ready and waiting for the proud heart to be broken and the will surrendered allowing Him to be it's Master.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Brethren, we were forgiven from all sins when our Savior died on the cross. But this is just the first of the three dimensions of the gospel.

Yes, Samie, everyone was forgiven at the Cross. But let me ask you, was everyone saved at that moment?

[Gerr]

Gerry none can ever say they are perfect even if they were, we can not be the judge of that.

That's a cop out, Gibs. You know very well you can NEVER be as perfect or as holy as Christ. Your little light is just a faint reflection of the light from the Sun/Son of Righteousness. A reflection can NEVER be as bright as the source!!!

Quote:

"AGAIN, when is a believing sinner saved?" You ask,

At full repentance and surrender of the will, our all to Him. It is a full resolve to make a complete change and be a new creature in and by Him.

Are you saying a sinner is saved the moment he repents and surrenders all to Him? If so, has the sinner achieved perfect performance at that point?

Quote:

It don't matter that we dwell in a body and have committed sin in the past, we are now empowered to put it away, you me or any can do it, we are given the advantage to get it accomplished. We must not be in denial of that fact. That would be saying Christ in you is not able to keep you from falling.

It doesn't matter? Then why was Christ born with holy flesh? Born WITHOUT ANY propensity or inclination to sin?

Quote:

[Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

[color:blue]

So, when a newly baptized sailor stubs his toe, and a torrent of cuss words come out, he has fallen and lost his salvation?

Is that the kind of falling Jude is talking about?

‎ESV ‎‎Jas 3:2 For we all stumble (present tense) in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

‎NRSV ‎‎Jas 3:2 For all of us make many mistakes. Anyone who makes no mistakes in speaking is perfect, able to keep the whole body in check with a bridle.

[Gerr]

And what is He bidding us to do?

As if you didn't know!

He bids us be holy. 1 Peter 1:16.

He bids us be perfect as He is.

IOW, you are holding out for me to be EXACTLY as holy as God is. And EXACTLY as perfect as He is. In short, TO BE GOD!!!

As I said in another post, a reflection can NEVER be as bright as the source!!!

[Gibs]

Gerry you know all the answers to all your questions of me. Yes a person is saved at full repentance and surrender. Then He begins a new life walking as His example, Jesus Christ. He now with Christ in Him strengthening Him to be dead of each and every one of his short comings one at a time. Jesus will usually bring one at a time to your memory as He knows you might be overwhelmed. Embeded and pet ones self has to really be crucified. The point is, whose will you be now?

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Who will you let be your master? Come on let us not give one thing to Satan. The power of your will is the deciding factor, will you or won't you, are you going to allow Jesus's Will to be yours or will you succumb to your fallen will.

Can't never did a thing. The attitude to His satisfaction is, I know I can with Him within and all things are possible to me.

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me

You state, "It doesn't matter? Then why was Christ born with holy flesh? Born WITHOUT ANY propensity or inclination to sin?"

EGW,

"Christ is the ladder that Jacob saw, the base resting on the earth, and the topmost round reaching to the gate of heaven, to the very threshold of glory. If that ladder had failed by a single step of reaching the earth, we should have been lost. But Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made "in the likeness of sinful flesh" (Romans 8:3), He lived a sinless life. Now by His divinity He lays hold upon the throne of heaven, while by His humanity He reaches us. He bids us by faith in Him attain to the glory of the character of God. Therefore are we to be perfect, even as our "Father which is in heaven is perfect." {RC 24.3}

Will continue later.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

"Some seem to feel that they must be on probation and must prove to the Lord that they are reformed, before they can claim His blessing. But these dear souls may claim the blessing even now. They must have His grace, the Spirit of Christ (the blessing), to help their infirmities, or they cannot form a Christian character. Jesus loves to have us come to Him just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent." Faith & Works,38.

In other words:

"He who will lay hold of Christ's righteousness need not wait one moment that he himself may blot out his own sins. He need not wait until he has made a suitable repentance before he may take hold of Christ's rigthteousness. We do not understand the matter of salvation. It is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." Ibid,64.

So what are we to do?

"Present your case (sinful, helpless, dependent) before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross." Ibid,106.

As we plead the merits of the crucified and risen Saviour, we are drawing nigh to God and He is drawing nigh to us.

"Faith is the condition God has seen fit to promise pardon to sinners. Not that there is any virtue in faith whereby salvation is merited but because faith can lay hold of the merits of Christ, the remedy provided for sin." Ibid,100,101.d

sky

[Gerr]

The last thing one ever wants to try is try to be perfect. God does not ask anyone to try to be perfect. For man to try to be perfect in thought, in word, and in deed, is to attempt an impossibility.

But God commands us to be perfect and His commands are self-fulfilling. We do not have to do it. We are to let the Word accomplish what is said in that word as the apostle Paul wrote, "When you received the Word which you heard from us, you did not receive it as the word of man but as it is in truth the Word of God which effectually works in you who believe," (1 Thess.2:13) because the creative energy that called the worlds into existence is in His word, not written merely, but spoken!

It is His work to make us perfect according to His will and "In the work of God humanity can originate nothing." C.O.L.418.

He invites us to rest in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour and in His word for "All the words of My mouth," says the Lord, "are with righteousness." Prov.8:8.

"We who have believed do enter into rest." Heb.4:3.

As we rest in His merits and righteousness which is in His word, we cease from our own works.

Faith is the "labor" by which we enter into God's rest. Heb.4:11,3.

sky

Now

Now you have me all confused. On one breath you say God "does not ask anyone to try to be perfect", and on the next breath you say "God commands us to be perfect." What's up?

[JoeMo]

I wish I knew how to put quotes in boxes. I'm an ond guy; and kind of digitally illiterate. There are so many posts to which I would like to put in my 2 bits.

Just two points:

1. "7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." (1 John 4:7-9)

"18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us." (1 John 4:17-19)

Is it fair to conclude from these verses that love is not a concept, but a Person; and that person is God? If so, we emulate God by loving others. Love comes from the heart, not the strength of will or behavior. If I fear God rather than love Him; and keep His Word out of fear rather than love, am I saved? Does God want us to think "I'd better keep every commandment or God will be angry and I'll suffer his wrath"? That God sounds more like a shrewd taskmaster with a whip than the lover of my soul.

2. "4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:4-9)

Outside of coming to Jesus and accepting His grace by faith, are we required to do anything else? In my mind, if I insist that there are more requirements for salvation, I am denying that Jesus' grace is enough; and my faith is inadequate. When Jesus said "it is finished" on the cross, was He not saying if not that "the war is over"? The fact that He did rise on the 3rd day is evidence that the Father found His sacrifice acceptable and complete!

"24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." (Rom. 3:24-26)

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1 John 2:1-3)

"9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another." (1 John 4:9-11)

If we love God and each other, our minds will be preoccupied by love and concern for Him and our brothers and sisters; not a list of "thou shalt nots" that we are vigilant to obey out of fear. We will obey unconsoiously ( albeit not perfectly - we are broken) out of love rather than counsiously out of fear and some sort of contractual obligation. If Jesus is indeed the "propitiation" (atoning sacrifice) for our sins, when we think we must do something besides believe in that, aren't we saying that Jesus' sacrifice is not enough?

I'm not trying to win a debate here; I'm just mystified as to how people of faith can think that their works (or lack thereof) have anything to do with their salvation.

[Gerr]

Gerry you know all the answers to all your questions of me. Yes a person is saved at full repentance and surrender. Then He begins a new life walking as His example, Jesus Christ.

And never stumble again? And if he makes a mistake he's toast if he dies without the chance to say, "I'm sorry?"

Quote:

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Who will you let be your master? Come on let us not give one thing to Satan. The power of your will is the deciding factor, will you or won't you, are you going to allow Jesus's Will to be yours or will you succumb to your fallen will.

And servants don't make mistakes?

Quote:

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me

That's one of the most misapplied passages of scriptures in the Bible. Read the context.

Quote:

You state, "It doesn't matter? Then why was Christ born with holy flesh? Born WITHOUT ANY propensity or inclination to sin?"

EGW,

"Christ is the ladder that Jacob saw, the base resting on the earth, and the topmost round reaching to the gate of heaven, to the very threshold of glory. If that ladder had failed by a single step of reaching the earth, we should have been lost. But Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made "in the likeness of sinful flesh" (Romans 8:3), He lived a sinless life. Now by His divinity He lays hold upon the throne of heaven, while by His humanity He reaches us. He bids us by faith in Him attain to the glory of the character of God. Therefore are we to be perfect, even as our "Father which is in heaven is perfect." {RC 24.3}

Will continue later.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Can you be God? Me be God?

[Gerr]

[Gibs]

Gerry and all who are following, I continue, Please do these reads from EGW.

44 (Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 2:14-17). Christ Took No Make-believe Humanity.--Of Christ it is said, "And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground." We need to realize the truth of Christ's manhood in order to appreciate the truth of the above words. It was not a make-believe humanity that Christ took upon Himself. He took human nature and lived human nature. Christ worked no miracles in His own behalf. He was compassed with infirmities, but His divine nature knew what was in man. He needed not that any should testify to Him of this. The Spirit was given Him without measure; for His mission on earth demanded this. {5BC 1124.1}

Christ's life represents a perfect manhood. Just that which you may be, He was in human nature. He took our infirmities. He was not only made flesh, but He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh. His divine attributes were withheld from relieving His soul anguish or His bodily pains (Letter 106, 1896). {5BC 1124.2}

Christ Met Man as Man.--Leaving the royal courts of heaven Christ came to our world to represent the character of His Father, and thus help humanity to return to their loyalty. The image of Satan was upon men, and Christ came that He might bring to them moral power and efficiency. He came as a helpless babe, bearing the humanity we bear. "As the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same." He could not come in the form of an angel; for unless He met man as man, and testified by His connection with God that divine power was not given to Him in a different way to what it will be given to us, He could not be a perfect example for us. He came in humility, in order that the humblest being upon the face of the earth could have no excuse because of his poverty, or ignorance, and say, Because of these things, I cannot obey the law of Jehovah. Christ clothed His divinity with humanity, that humanity might touch humanity; that He might live with humanity and bear all the trials and afflictions of man. He was tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin. In His humanity He understood all the temptations that will come to man (MS 21, 1895). {7BC 925.1}

Will you be obedient or disobedient? It is your choice, you have no excuse to say it can't be done. Can't never did anything. You can do all things with Him in you. Do it!

To be continued,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

The last thing one ever wants to try is try to be perfect. God does not ask anyone to try to be perfect. For man to try to be perfect in thought, in word, and in deed, is to attempt an impossibility.

But God commands us to be perfect and His commands are self-fulfilling. We do not have to do it. We are to let the Word accomplish what is said in that word as the apostle Paul wrote, "When you received the Word which you heard from us, you did not receive it as the word of man but as it is in truth the Word of God which effectually works in you who believe," (1 Thess.2:13) because the creative energy that called the worlds into existence is in His word, not written merely, but spoken!

It is His work to make us perfect according to His will and "In the work of God humanity can originate nothing." C.O.L.418.

He invites us to rest in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour and in His word for "All the words of My mouth," says the Lord, "are with righteousness." Prov.8:8.

"We who have believed do enter into rest." Heb.4:3.

As we rest in His merits and righteousness which is in His word, we cease from our own works.

Faith is the "labor" by which we enter into God's rest. Heb.4:11,3.

sky

Now

Now you have me all confused. On one breath you say God "does not ask anyone to try to be perfect", and on the next breath you say "God commands us to be perfect." What's up?

Gerry

____________________

Gerry, certainly one must be able to see the difference between one who is trying to be perfect by his own best efforts and one who is letting the Word of God do what is said in that word. God does not need our help to fulfill His word, or does He?

The Word of God is full of righteousness (right doing). "I the Lord speak righteousness." Isaiah 45:19,23.

The Word bids us be holy. Unless we believe that the creative energy (Spirit of God) is in the command "Be holy" how can we ever enter into God's rest?

It is not for us to try to fulfill the word but to let the word work God's will in us.

To try to fulfill the word by our own best efforts makes us just as legalist as the Pharisees of old. But to let the Word accomplish what is said in that word makes us Christians.

sky

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

When the Father looks at me, He sees perfect obedience; because He sees me wrapped in the robe of Christs perfect righteousness. That's how He sees you, too; even when you can't see yourself as perfect.

[skyblue888]

He will not see us wrapped in the robe of Christ's righteousness unless we have the genuine article. The righteousness of Christ is not a cloak for sin but the power to overcome as He overcame, the power of God ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:5.

sky

[Gerr]

Bottom line question for Sky & Gibs:

Can I be God?

[skyblue888]

We can never be God (what blasphemy such a claim would be) but it is given to us to become partakers of the divine nature. 2 Peter 1:4.

"With humanity and divinity combined you can accomplish a work as enduring as eternity." Faith & Works,27.

The Holy Spirit, through the apostle Paul, prayed that Christ might dwell in our hearts by faith that we might be filled with all the fullness of God. See Eph.3:14-19.

"The only condition upon which man's freedom is possible is that of becoming one with Christ." D.A.466

To be one with Christ is to be one with God.

Do you see the difference?

We can never be God but we can be one with God through the merits of Christ.

sky

There was one who wanted to be God and we know what happened to him.

[JoeMo]

Sky,

Are you perfectly obedient in mind and deed? I'm not. Have you had lustful or hateful thoughts? I have. Are you totally immune to gossip? I'm not. Are you sure you have confessed and repented of every specific sin you have ever committed? I'm not. Are If you're anything like me,, you need Christ's righteousness; or you're not good enough.

We don't earn grace - it is a free gift. If we think we have to earn it, we reject Christ's gift. We say we don't want His free gift. We want to earn it.

You say in your signature line that ""The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." (S.C.36). Do you really believe that, or do you believe that Christ's sacrifice is insufficient; and that we must add to it by our good works and perfect sin management to make it "good enough"?