A Must For Every Christian

[Samie]

Adoption into the family of God is God's work FOR man. It is misconception of the gospel to say man has a part in his being adopted into God's family (Eph 2:11-19). This He did for all in the first dimension of the gospel.

Now that we are in God's family, God writes His beacons of truth to guide us into a godly living acceptable in His sight. And we need to prove ourselves overcomers, by positively responding to the leading of the Holy Spirit, in the 2nd dimension. All overcomers will not be removed from the family of God. Removal is done by deleting his name from the book of life (Rev 3:5) when a person dies (Heb 9:27).

[Gerr]

To my knowledge, nobody here ever said that we could equal the Pattern.

sky

I beg your pardon? What have you and Gibs been saying whenever you cite Mt 5:48 which says, "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect," hence the title of this thread - "A Must For Every Christian." Furthermore, Gibs has been saying we are to overcome as He overcame. He overcame and was sinless. I'm not so sure about you, but wasn't he saying as to be sinless also? If I misunderstood YOUR position, then my apologies. But I told you once that you had me confused. On the one hand you seemed to be teaching that we can achieve perfection of character, and on the other hand, you were saying that our only hope is in the merits of Christ.

[JoeMo]

Earlier I said that I was not a huge EGW fan. I think EGW was an amazing person; and had the NT gift of prophecy as described in 1 Cor. 12-14. She said some incredible things that could have only been inspired by God. Some of her predictions have indeed come true.

But she had the NT spiritual gift of prophecy; she never held the OT "office" of prophet. She even personally denied that she was a prophet (I think-I couldn't give you a reference) . I don't believe she was infallible; therefore I don't expect every prediction she made to l come to fulfillment. Nor do I think her personal letters to individuals as published in the Testimonies are applicable to the church at large. To hold her to the same standards of an appointed OT prophet does a disservice to her and the people who put so much faith in her writings. It no longer affects my faith; but it took a long time for me to separate her prophetic gifts from the authority that the denomination encourages us to have.

[skyblue888]

Gerry, What I have been saying is that our only hope of forming a Christian character is that of trusting wholly in the merits of the blood of Christ, based on the declarations of inspiration.

Mark 4:26-29; Rom.3:25.

sky

[Gibs]

No one can equal the pattern for the simple reason we all have fallen in sin, He did not. Now here is a quote from EGW that is for sure the way that it is and it is our part to comply,

It is a matter of will you or won't you.

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. 1 Corinthians 10:13. {AG 254.1}

Will man take hold of divine power, and with determination and perseverance resist Satan, as Christ has given him example in His conflict with the foe in the wilderness of temptation? God cannot save man against his will from the power of Satan's artifices. Man must work with his human power, aided by the divine power of Christ, to resist and to conquer at any cost to himself. In short, man must overcome as Christ overcame. And then, through the victory that it is his privilege to gain by the all-powerful name of Jesus, he may become an heir of God and joint heir with Jesus Christ. This could not be the case if Christ alone did all the overcoming. Man must do his part; he must be victor on his own account, through the strength and grace that Christ gives him. Man must be a co-worker with Christ in the labor of overcoming. {AG 254.2}

The victims of evil habit must be aroused to the necessity of making an effort for themselves. Others may put forth the most earnest endeavor to uplift them, the grace of God may be freely offered, Christ may entreat, His angels may minister; but all will be in vain unless they themselves are roused to fight the battle in their own behalf.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Gerry, What I have been saying is that our only hope of forming a Christian character is that of trusting wholly in the merits of the blood of Christ, based on the declarations of inspiration.

Mark 4:26-29; Rom.3:25.

sky

Then I whole-heartedly agree with you. The perfect righteousness of Christ is our ONLY ticket to heaven. Achieving a perfect, sinless, character? A pipe dream.

[Gerr]

Christ overcame by trusting the Father. We overcome in the same way.

[Gibs]

The character we develop in this present time at death of this body in the resurrection be it the first or second will be the same as we died. He does not change any at that time. The time He changes us is now. How?

A man must reach out to Him and get it, His Divine Nature, takes full repentance and the spiritual house cleaned and then He can come in and be it's only Master.

Without that indwelling one will fall short of having the character needed to be in resurrection # 1.

Yes trust in Him and take His Free Gift, His Divine Nature.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Then I whole-heartedly agree with you. The perfect righteousness of Christ is our ONLY ticket to heaven. Achieving a perfect, sinless, character? A pipe dream.

Exactly Praise God

[skyblue888]

"You want to be like little children, hanging your helpless soul upon the MERITS of a crucified and risen Saviour, and THEN you will be FORTIFIED. How? The angels of God will be around you as a wall of fire; the righteousness of Christ, which you claim, goes before you, and the glory of God is your rearward. God sanctify our tongues, our thoughts, our minds, that we may dwell upon heavenly themes, and that we may impart that knowledge and light to others." EGW Ms 9,1891.

Notice how all that is described in this statement is accomplished by simply hanging our helpless souls upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. And we are to impart that knowledge and light to others, inviting them to hang their helpless souls upon the merits of their Redeemer.

After reading this we should be better able to appreciate why it is written that "Through the MERITS of Christ we may find the APPROVAL of God." EGW Our Father Cares,122.

Indeed "The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." Faith & Works,64.

"There is not one in one hundred who understands for himself the Bible truth on this subject that is so necessary to our present and eternal welfare. When light begins to shine forth to make clear the plan of redemption to the people, the enemy works with all diligence that the light may be shut away from the hearts of men." 1 S.M.360.

See what I just did? I have compared statement with statement in order to arrive at the truth, as we are admonished to do.

"The Testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." 1 S.M.42.

sky

[skyblue888]

"The work for the ministers of Christ is to hang their helpless souls upon His merits." Testimonies to Ministers,247.

Again this statement teaches that this is our part, our work. And if we do our part, the Lord will do His. He will work in us, through the Spirit, both to will and to do His good pleasure, as stated in Phil.2:13. This is what it means to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, relying solely upon the virtue of the merits of the world's Redeemer.

As you can see, the matter of salvation is, indeed, just as simple as ABC. (F.W.64)

sky

[Overaged]

"[color:#000099]

See what I just did? I have compared statement with statement in order to arrive at the truth, as we are admonished to do. sky

Well; we are told most often, to do this with the Bible. "Line upon line" means the Scriptures.

By taking spirit of prophecy out of context, you have just told us that all we need to do to be saved is "hang our helpless souls on Christ." What's that mean :"hang your soul?"

"Statement with statement" correctly done would tell us the answer to that. The way you have framed this simply eliminates the need for the cross; for we can just hang our own soul where it's supposed to go.

Jesus says we cannot do anything "without Him;" and when He says that; He means without "Christ and Him crucified." This must be the central pillar of every gospel discourse, and admonition.

And the tragedy of it all is that we don't see it much anymore.

[Woody]

EGW should never be interpreted to go contrary to what scripture clearly tells us.

[JoeMo]

Amen; Woody; we cannot give EGW's writings an authority equivalent to scripture. She never wanted that; and neither do many of us. I have a rough time getting through posts that are 90% EGW and 10% scripure.

[Overaged]

Amen; Woody; we cannot give EGW's writings an authority equivalent to scripture. She never wanted that; and neither do many of us. I have a rough time getting through posts that are 90% EGW and 10% scripure.

I don't really have a rough time getting through such posts as I enjoy her writings and use them regularly; all I am saying is context of her writings is often left out with such posts.

[JoeMo]

Good point, OA. Both EGW's writings and scripture can be taken out of context (or just sincerely misunderstood)to "prove" one's point. I admit that I have been guilty of it sometimes.

[Overaged]

Good point, OA. Both EGW's writings and scripture can be taken out of context (or just sincerely misunderstood)to "prove" one's point. I admit that I have been guilty of it sometimes.

lol, well we are both guilty then...I just think it's important to recognize that Ellen White's writings are not somehow poison; it's just that some tend to use them incorrectly, giving them a bad name, and making it look like we hold them as scripture, or, above scripture.

[JoeMo]

I admire your balance, OA.

[Overaged]

LOL, thanks. I am glad you do. There are lots that don't. Keep up with the great posts!

[skyblue888]

"Faith and works go hand in hand; they act harmoniously in the work of overcoming. Works without faith are dead, and faith without works is dead. Works will never save us; it is the merits of Christ that will avail in our behalf." Faith & Works,48.

Does not that mean that with the simple faith of a little child we must rest in the merits of Christ in order that the Holy Spirit may bring His righteousness into our life to enable us to keep all of God's commandments. Yet in the judgment it is the merits of Christ that will avail in behalf of the redeemed. The good works that the grace of the Holy Spirit will have enabled them to do will be rewarded but in and of themselves they will not act a part in the salvation of the soul or in merit.

The righteous will say, "We have done nothing. We are unprotitable servants. (Luke 17:10) Christ did it all and if we walk through the gates it will be only on account of the all-sufficient merits of Christ's infinite sacrifice."

And the Father will reply to them saying, "Good and faithful servants, enter in and take possession of the Kingdom which was prepared before you even before the foundation of the world."

sky

[Gibs]

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Here is a well stated fact to consider,

"Man's working, as brought out in the text, is not an independent work he performs without God. His whole dependence is upon the power and grace of the Divine Worker. Many miss the mark here, and claim that man must work his own individual self, free from divine power. This is not in accordance with the text. Another argues that man is free from all obligation, because God does it all, both the willing and the doing. The text means that the salvation of the human soul requires the will power to be subjected to the divine will power. . . . And it is the very hardest, sternest conflict which comes with the purpose and hour of great resolve and decision of the human to incline the will and way to God's will and God's way." {OHC 91.3}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

In other words, God works and man works. Unless God works in man both to will and to do, man cannot do anything.

"Without Me you can do nothing." Jesus.

This is even true concerning our physical life for "In Him we live and move and have our being." Acts 17:28. "He is the life of everything that lives." Education,197, bottom line. "We cannot have a thought without Christ." F.W.73.

How much more regarding our spiritual life:

"The law of the human and the divine action makes the receiver a laborer together with God. It brings men where he can, united with divinity, work the works of God. Humanity touches humanity. Divine power and the human agency combined will be a complete success for Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." F.W.27.

sky

[skyblue888]

Gibs, how do you find the statements that you quote? EWG cd rom? most of the time I am not familiar with the reference.

sky

[skyblue888]

I stated that this was even true concerning our physical life, that without Him, His Spirit, we can do nothing, not even breathe or think for "In Him we live and move and have our being." Acts 17:28. "He is the life of everything that lives." Education,197, bottom line. Therefore "We cannot have a thought without Christ." F.W.73. This would explain why Mrs. White speaks of "the unseen, mighty Intelligence that is working in and through all." Education,14.

See how true this is in more details:

"The mechanism of the human body is cannot be fully understood; it presents mysteries that baffle the most intelligent. It is NOT as the result of a mechanism, which, once set in motion, continues to work, that the pulse beats and breath follows breath. In God we live and move and have our being. The beating heart, the throbbing pulse, every nerve and muscle in the living organism is kept in order and activity by the power of an ever-present God." Ministry of Healing,417.

And the Holy Spirit, Christ's representative, is the power of an ever-present God.

"Where shall I go from Your Spirit? Where shall I flee from Your presence?" Psalm 137:9.

"The only key to the mysteries that surround us is to acknowledge in them all the presence and power of God." D.A.606.

"The divine Spirit that the world's Redeemer promised to send is the presence and power of God." EGW, Signs of the Times, Nov.23,1891.

This, I believe, is also an important aspect of the last message to be given to the church and to the world.

sky

[Gibs]

Gibs, how do you find the statements that you quote? EWG cd rom? most of the time I am not familiar with the reference.

sky

I get them from the EGW CD Rom is correct. I used to have about all the books but gave them out to my family, but when I had them I could always find them. There is a few only stated in one or two publications.

Like this one, "The Jews had never before heard such words from human lips, and a convicting influence attended them; for it seemed that divinity flashed through humanity as Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." The words of Christ were full of deep meaning as he put forth the claim that he and the Father were of one substance, possessing the same attributes.--The Signs of the Times, Nov. 27, 1893, p. 54. {7ABC 437.3}

Same statement in {ST, November 27, 1893 par. 5}

That is the only two listed for that statement.

Just because it is in only two doesn't mean it is of no importance we both know that, but the problem is many haven't read it today. I think I still have that signs article and didn't give it away unless my wife did but it don't matter as it is faster accessed here on computer. The CD Rom disc is around 20.00$ now so it is a great buy for those who treasure our messenger from God's writings.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.