A Must For Every Christian

[CoAspen]

When all else fails...pile on the EGW quotes, not in context!

Quote:

Jesus came to this world and showed that with humanity and divinity combined, fallen men can obey every one of God's precepts.

Wrong! A very basic misunderstanding, Christ was both human and divine, WE are not. His proof was that unfallen man could have achieved obedience. The one and only way to Christian Perfection is accepting Christ, whom God sees when looking at us.

What is being proposed here is simply another 'perfectionism theology'! Tell me that John 3:16 is not pertinent to this discussion and one of the most descriptive statements about our role and that of Christs!!

[Gibs]

Well, CoAspen, He made it that we too could have His divine nature so we could also achieve obedience.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

EGW speaks on this verse,

"And the apostle writes, "Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue; whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises; that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." It is here plainly revealed that whosoever believeth in Jesus Christ becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Let divinity and humanity cooperate, and fallen man may be more than conqueror through Christ Jesus."

-

{ST, April 24, 1893 par. 6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[troyjs]

Some say that we may have Christ's divine nature, which then makes us able to be morally perfect here on Earth.

Interestingly, most of us here agree that not one of us will be God as Christ is God, but rather we are being conformed to the image of His likeness.

Jesus came to save sinners, and those sinners He makes righteous by imputation, so that we may boldly come to the throne of Grace.

We are seen as righteous as Christ is. We sinners, can already come to the throne of grace. Does this mean that we can sin so that grace may abound? God forbid. We must be holy as He is holy . He has made perfect by His sacrifice, those who are being made holy. Yes, we are perfect in His sight, and we are being made holy.

Therefore, the Sinner Paul could say that he is already more than a conqueror through Christ. We have already overcome.

1 John 1:

5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

You see, walking in the light, includes admitting that we have sin in us. If we say that there is no sin in us, then we are lying, and we are not walking in the light. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and purify us from all unrighteousness. By His sacrifice, we are perfect in His sight, we continue to sin, but our God is one whon we can come before, and be forgiven.

Remember that the Gentiles are the 'lving sacrifices' that Paul presented to God. In the Old Covenant, we were not acceptable in God's sight, but because we have been sanctified in Him, God now accepts us as living sacrifices.

To say that something else must be added to the work of Christ, before we can be received by the Father, is a denial of the Gospel.

kind regards

ThoroughlyFurnished.blogspot.com

[skyblue888]

Well, CoAspen, He made it that we too could have His divine nature so we could also achieve obedience.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

EGW speaks on this verse,

"And the apostle writes, "Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue; whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises; that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." It is here plainly revealed that whosoever believeth in Jesus Christ becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Let divinity and humanity cooperate, and fallen man may be more than conqueror through Christ Jesus."

-

{ST, April 24, 1893 par. 6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Amen.

How can anyone who is seeking for the truth read these statements and not see it?

sky

[skyblue888]

We are slow to learn and ready to forget.

"In Him was found the perfect ideal. To reveal this ideal as the only true standard for attainment; to show what every human being might become; what, through the indwelling of humanity by divinity, all who received Him would become--for this, Christ came to the world." Education,73-4.

This is as plain as God Himself can make it.

To deny the above is to deny 2 Peter 1:4; Eph.3:14-19; Col.1:9,10; Phil.2:13; Col.1:27,30.

sky

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Tell me that John 3:16 is not pertinent to this discussion and one of the most descriptive statements about our role and that of Christs!!

Still silent about this great text and others like it.....quoting EGW to support your brand of perfectionism. But then, she isn't alive to refute your use, but if you listen closely...is that 'spinning in the grave' I here?

[skyblue888]

God gave His only begotten Son that whosoever comes to God daily trusting wholly in the merits of His infinite sacrifice may receive the Holy Spirit to keep him from sin for through the Holy Spirit we become partakers of Christ's divine nature.

Eph.3:14-19; Rom.5:5.

sky

[Overaged]

"Jesus said, Be perfect as your Father is perfect.

Well; that must mean you are disobeying Jesus; because I'd be willing to bet a lot of money you aint quite perfect just yet.

[Overaged]

We are slow to learn and ready to forget.

sky

We are also quick to PRESUME and we make ourselves seem as liars when we intimate in any way that we can somehow attain unto sinless perfection. Mat 5:38 is one of the most misunderstood, and poorly-preached verses there are.

[Woody]

Quote:

Tell me that John 3:16 is not pertinent to this discussion and one of the most descriptive statements about our role and that of Christs!!

Still silent about this great text and others like it.....quoting EGW to support your brand of perfectionism. But then, she isn't alive to refute your use, but if you listen closely...is that 'spinning in the grave' I here?

This is the point. So many twist and contort her and her writings. People - the poor lady is dead - why take advantage of her for private gain. What a shame. If only she could defend herself. Wow would she have speaks.

[troyjs]

Interesting that no matter how many times we bring up 1 John, no one will answer the obvious text of God's Word, which says that anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar. We have already responded that overcoming and being conquerors does not mean we are sinless.

[Overaged]

WOODY! I believe; and this is my very humblest, humble opinion, that if Ellen White were alive today; she would come after certain ones here with a big stick and take her writings right away from them!!

[Gibs]

troyjs and OV,

No one here has ever said they have not sinned. The true crux of the matter is, each and all are enabled to be overcomers of it is the great and important issue.

We must not refuse to do what He has enabled us to do. With His Divine Nature all things are possible to us, yes even overcoming our shortcomings, sin, evil, the devil and the world as Jesus our example showed it could be done with the Divine Nature in Him.

His Divine Nature in You, You are as able as He was and possibly more so as when the evil ones see Him dwelling in you ( Satan and his angels can ) they know they are defeated foes.

Come on you fellows and gals, He is waiting on you to take His offer of overcoming Power free to all who will surrender all and fall on Him and be broken of our will, pride and self. The old man must die that we arise a new creature in Him, strengthened to walk as He walked.

You better believe, have faith dear friends in Him as old HMS Richards Sr. always ended his radio program with. He is not spoofing you about this, He will empower you!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

troyjs and OV,

Troyjs, 1 John you say, please read, 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

OV, We have as much right to post EGW's council as you and maybe more using them in context of what she advocated and I want to tell you now she wrote so much about being overcomers of our sinning it would keep you busy for some time reading it all.

Thing is, have you really read the ones we posted? I really do wonder as if you did how could you respond as you do..

OV, Here is just a "leetle" one, "We must be overcomers, and must teach our children to overcome." {Te 282.1}

Here is a "leetle" one from 1 John,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

troyjs and OV,

Troyjs, 1 John you say, please read, 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

OV, We have as much right to post EGW's council as you and maybe more using them in context of what she advocated and I want to tell you now she wrote so much about being overcomers of our sinning it would keep you busy for some time reading it all.

Thing is, have you really read the ones we posted? I really do wonder as if you did how could you respond as you do..

OV, Here is just a "leetle" one, "We must be overcomers, and must teach our children to overcome." {Te 282.1}

[Gibs]

Like I posted on above OV all of us have sinned yes there is no doubt but that is not the point, the point is we can now put it away, He will fill you, me or anyone with His Divine Nature and then you can overcome all your sinning, world, Satan and his angels and evil. Yes just as Jesus did, perfect in this sphere as He was perfect in this sphere as one of us. He did not take any power but what is ours, His Divine Nature.

OV, we just have no excuse, and we must if we are going to be in His kingdom. Sinning must be killed in us now in this time as we will be raised with the same bent we had at death, so we must get it shed now!

Again hear John,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

As we have said before, the command "Be holy" is a promise, a most positive promise of its own fulfillment for it is the voice of God speaking to the soul in promise just as the same voice called the world into existence by speaking the word only,

Lord speak the word only and I will be holy.

And He says, Be it done according to your faith!

This voice of God comes to us through the merits of Jesus Christ.

sky

[Gerr]

Are you holy now? Are you saved now?

[troyjs]

Gibs ansd sky,

Yes exactly ---

Those who have already overcome, are those who would be lying if they said they did not sin.

I have overcome.

Have you?

kind regards

ThoroughlyFurnished.blogspot.com

[Gerr]

Interesting that no matter how many times we bring up 1 John, no one will answer the obvious text of God's Word, which says that anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar. We have already responded that overcoming and being conquerors does not mean we are sinless.

OA has already used 1 Jn 1:8-10 to refute the notion of perfectionism. There are only two in this forum that I know of who believe in it. So don't expect any refutation except perhaps from these two.

[skyblue888]

In the judgment, if the Lord was to ask you: Gerry, you did not believe that My word "Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect," was able to make you perfect in thought, in spirit, in word, and in deed?

What will you answer Him?

Will not every mouth be stopped then?

"Of ourselves we can do nothing. If we try to work in our own strength, we shall fail completely. Jesus came to our world to bring divine power to combine with human effort. When God unites His power with man's effort, the work is brought to perfection. God wants to do great things. And if we only have faith in Him, He will work for us mightily." R&H, Vol.2,304.

"For I also labor, striving according to His working, which works in me mightily." Col.1:29.

"We are to be holy temples in which God can live and walk and work." 5 B.C.1134.

Thats the true standard.

If I choose not to believe in that standard because I look at my performance for the last 30 years and declare that it is impossible to perfect a Chritian character in this life, will that change the divinely revealed standard?

sky

[Gerr]

In the judgment, if the Lord was to ask you: Gerry, you did not believe that My word "Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect," was able to make you perfect in thought, in spirit, in word, and in deed?

What will you answer Him?

God would never ask me THAT question because I don't believe Jesus intended it to mean what you understand it to mean. God knows, and Jesus knows, I could never be God! I could imitate Him. I could copy Him. But be as perfect as He is in the way you mean it? NO WAY!!! Your concept of moral perfection is way below what I think it is!

BTW, I haven't seen your answer to my question: At what point is a repentant sinner pronounced righteous, blameless, and above reproach?

[Gibs]

Gerry, I would think more than once on that statement before I came back with any form of refute, because Jesus Said It!

Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

His answer would have been, just follow me and walk as I have and you are counted in as I am. Further He would have told you I will help you to the utermost as I will put my Divine Nature in you if you will be mine only. You see He might say I am a jealous Bridegroom.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

In the judgment, if the Lord was to ask you: Gerry, you did not believe that My word "Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect," was able to make you perfect in thought, in spirit, in word, and in deed?

What will you answer Him?

God would never ask me THAT question because I don't believe Jesus intended it to mean what you understand it to mean. God knows, and Jesus knows, I could never be God! I could imitate Him. I could copy Him. But be as perfect as He is in the way you mean it? NO WAY!!! Your concept of moral perfection is way below what I think it is!

BTW, I haven't seen your answer to my question: At what point is a repentant sinner pronounced righteous, blameless, and above reproach?

[CoAspen]

What! You expect them to answer your question or quote? How silly of you, they wont even discuss J 3:16!!

We do have a few one-trick ponies running around!!!