A Must For Every Christian

[skyblue888]

About John 3:16.

Instead of giving you a private interpretation of this verse, how about an inspired commentary:

"God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son that whosoever would accept Him might have power to live His righteous life." 1 S.M.223.

And "The life of Christ on earth was a perfect expression of God's law." C.O.L.315.

If we only fix our eyes upon these declarations as heavenly illumination, we are under obligation to believe that not only is it possible to live a life in harmony with the law of God but God expects it from us through the grace given us in Christ Jesus and His grace is "exceedingly abundant with faith and love." 1 Tim.1:14.

Hence the faith that works obedience to the law by the love of God which is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us. Gal.5:6; Rom.5:5.

"The time of probation is given us that we may perfect a character for eternity." 1 S.M.318.

sky

[Gerr]

Faith and obedience, YES!!!

Now let me ask you again, Sky.

At what point in a believing sinner's journey is he declared by God to be righteous, holy, and blameless and above reproach?

[Gerr]

What! You expect them to answer your question or quote? How silly of you, they wont even discuss J 3:16!!

We do have a few one-trick ponies running around!!!

It has been said, hope springs eternal.

[Gibs]

He who has set his heart to not want to can't overcome what he will not do. There is the problem, the will, pride, spirit has not been broken, not willing that He be the Master of your life. Self must die, be dead to sining. Paul stated it so excellently well that I must post it here.

DIE THE DEATH OF SELF AND SIN!

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

What will be your excuse to Jesus on judgment day when He tells you, I made it possible for you to overcome all and you didn't, you refused me.

Your answer can only be, Yes Lord I sure did and now I must pay, I bet my eternal life on it and lost it.

There is no excuse! His yoke is light and not galling and the victory He gives from His Divine Nature in you is so sweet and rewarding, your heart will sing Him praises.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

DIE THE DEATH OF SELF AND SIN!

So, when you come/came out of the water, do/did you come out which holy flesh? Or did you come out with the body that is still impregnated with self & sin?

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

What! You expect them to answer your question or quote? How silly of you, they wont even discuss J 3:16!!

We do have a few one-trick ponies running around!!!

It has been said, hope springs eternal.

Now let me ask you again, Sky.

At what point in a believing sinner's journey is he declared by God to be righteous, holy, and blameless and above reproach?

Gerry

__________

Gerry, do we need to be taught the first principles of the Gospel again? All of us should know that we are declared and made righteous the moment we come to God just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, accepting Christ as our personal Saviour. We accept Him as a personal Saviour by appropriating the merits of His shed blood to ourselves for "He is our propitiation through faith in His blood." Rom.3:25. " "The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347.

At this point of time we are holy and blameless and without reproach, because we have become one with Him. That, to my understanding, is the new birth. If following this experience one should happen to die he would die in the Lord, holy, righteous, and blameless but without having the full corn of His character in the ear. The full corn of His character will be developed in the ear during the latter rain and loud cry. Mark 4:26-29.

So the moment one is born again, He becomes righteous in Christ and God receives him as though he had never sinned.

This is a given. All should understand that.

Now the question is, How do we remain righteous, holy, without blame in the Lord? The Bible answer is:

"As you have received Him, so walk ye in Him." Col.2:6.

"He that says he abides in Him, ought himself to walk as He walked." 1 John 2:6.

This is the work of sanctification

"Unless he makes it his life business to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93.

It is not natural for a man to walk upon the water just as it is not natural for a man to walk the Christian walk. It is a miracle, always.

We are not discussing your life or my life or the life of somebody else here but the way to live the Christian life.

"Teach me Thy way O Lord."

If we are truly born again and walk as He walked it will show in the manner we treat others for one cannot have the love of God in his heart and hate his brother.

Is that not the answer? We receive Him by faith, by appropriating His merits to ourselves and we walk with Him and in Him by faith, by continuing to appropriate His merits to ourselves, feeding upon His word.

We must never stop believing that it is not only possible to walk as Jesus walked but that God expects it from His children.

Because if we stop believing this we make God a liar.

"He that believeth not God hath made Him a liar." 1 John 5:10.

Even if my life is nothing but a failure in the last 30 years I will not stop believing that it is possible in this life to live a life in harmony with the law of God. The 144,000 are the people who will demonstrate this once and for all, as Jesus did. Then the end will come.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

DIE THE DEATH OF SELF AND SIN!

So, when you come/came out of the water, do/did you come out which holy flesh? Or did you come out with the body that is still impregnated with self & sin?

Gerry, Is this a new teaching? There is no such thing as holy flesh as long as we are living in this world. You know that. After baptism we are one with Christ but we still have sinful flesh. The Bible does not say, `Be ye transformed by the renewing of your flesh,`` but `be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.`

sky

[Gerr]

Gerry, Is this a new teaching? There is no such thing as holy flesh as long as we are living in this world. You know that. After baptism we are one with Christ but we still have sinful flesh. The Bible does not say, `Be ye transformed by the renewing of your flesh,`` but `be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.`

sky

Well, then, if you recognize we still have SINFUL FLESH, why would/how could you expect sinless performance from one FULL OF SIN?

And since you recognize that the renewal is a renewing of the mind and not of the flesh, do you not recognize that there is often a disconnect between what the mind tells the flesh and what the flesh does?

[Gerr]

Gerry, do we need to be taught the first principles of the Gospel again? All of us should know that we are declared and made righteous the moment we come to God just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, accepting Christ as our personal Saviour.

Apparently, we need to go over the basics again because of the posts I've been reading from you and Gibs. And I raise some very basic questions because I have not been getting straight answers to other questions. And apparently the basic principles are not as plainly taught or understood because Gibs has got his cart before the proverbial horse. As I understand his position, a sinner has to be sanctified first before he/she could be declared righteous, holy, and above reproach by God. I am glad to hear that you believe that the moment a sinner is repentant and surrenders to God, he is treated as though he/she has never sinned. My question to you then is -

what happens if after he/she is justified, he/she falls short of sinless perfection, then what? Lost?

[Gibs]

No Gerry I have ever believed the moment we go to the throne of grace and ask His forgiveness in true sorrow and repentance, resolve to change, He forgives you and the slate is clean of those you confessed. You must not have in mind to go right back at it as He sees that and are you then forgiven? Hardly!

Now after being justified by true sorrow and confessing the sins He has burdened your heart with and you go back into it again and unless you go back again in true sorrow you are lost until you do. In other words it is endangering your eternal life to continue back in the sins forgiven of over and over as there will come a time you will not make it back to ask His forgiveness again. And don't you think He knows your heart that you didn't intend to stop those sins when you could have?

None will be saved in continuing sin, read,

"Do not excuse yourself in any error. If you have one objectionable trait which you find it difficult to subdue, do not talk of your weakness that others must bear with. Do not soothe your conscience with the thought that you cannot overcome the peculiarities that deform your character, nor listen to Satan's suggestion that they are not very grievous. There is no way by which you can be saved in sin. Every soul that gains eternal life must be like Christ, "holy, blameless, undefiled, separate from sinners." The followers of Christ must shine as lights in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation." {RH, June 3, 1884 par. 10}

That quote is Biblical for sure and most realize it or have trashed her council.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

So, if sometime after a repentant, forgiven sinner comes out of the baptismal water stubs his toe and utters a few cuss words, he is back under condemnation of the law?

[Gibs]

So, if sometime after a repentant, forgiven sinner comes out of the baptismal water stubs his toe and utters a few cuss words, he is back under condemnation of the law?

He needs in true sorrow for his mistake go to the Throne of Grace and get forgiveness, yes!

1Jo 2:1 ¶ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

So, if sometime after a repentant, forgiven sinner comes out of the baptismal water stubs his toe and utters a few cuss words, he is back under condemnation of the law?

He needs in true sorrow for his mistake go to the Throne of Grace and get forgiveness, yes!

Yes, to what? That I'm back under condemnation of the law and therefore lost all over again before I confess and ask for forgiveness?

Saved. Lost. Saved. Lost. Saved. Lost. Is that the experience of the believer many times a day?

[Gerr]

Christ has been loved by you, although your faith has sometimes been feeble and your prospects confused. But Jesus is your Saviour. He does not save you because you are perfect, but because you need Him and in your imperfection have trusted in Him. Jesus loves you, my precious child. You may sing, "Under the shadow of Thy throne Still may we dwell secure; Sufficient is Thine arm alone, And our defense is sure."--Letter 46, 1879. {3SM 147.2}

White, E. G. (1980; 2002). Selected Messages From the Writings of Ellen G. White, Book 3; Selected Messages, Book 3 (147). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

[Gibs]

Now Gerry you can see the problem one has if he is continuing in sin. That is what comes of that course. You are not forgiven of future sining at the throne of grace no way shape or form and any teaching that is a liar.

The following quote is the crux of the matter, if I could give it better myself I would.

"We have no hesitancy in telling you that in order to obtain the immortal inheritance and the eternal substance, you must be overcomers in this probationary life. Everything that blots and stains the soul must be removed, must be cleansed from the heart. We must know what it means to be a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruptions that are in the world through lust. Are you willing to wage war against the lusts of the flesh? Are you ready to battle against the enemy of God and man? Satan is determined to enslave every soul if he can; for he is playing a desperate game to win the souls of men from Christ and eternal life. Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the merits of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature? God has given His only-begotten Son, that through His shame, suffering, and death, you might have glory, honor, and immortality."--Signs of the Times, June 15, 1891. {TDG 175.2}

You see there would be no need of any being overcomers if at His Throne of grace you were forgiven all past and all future sin. I have a Bro. in law that believes that and as soon as he "got saved" he didn't darken no church door no more, no more need of that. Well he went on living his life as ever and he is near 90 now.

Have faith that "Christ in You" and He will be your power over all sin. Now if you slip, yes confess in true sorrow and He forgives. Each time we overcome where we are apt to fall we become stronger over it, each time we succumb to it we get weaker too. It is dangerous to continue in sin and we have not one little excuse to do so.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

So true.

sky

[Gerr]

You guys have been claiming that if you do not achieve sinless perfection, you're toast. Consider:

‎ESV ‎‎1 Jn 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

What imperfection, what possible sin could not lead to death?

[Gibs]

Gerry, I don't think I'll look for it but if you figure out what it is let us know.

As far as sinless perfection is concerned the perfection He expects of us here in our realm is to walk as Jesus did and we are counted as He is. He did not walk as God upon this earth even though God was in Him. If He had of the plan of salvation would have been forfeited. Satan was watching very, very closely for that and did all he knew to do to get Him to reach within and do that, but He did not. He was steadfast to take only what power that would be ours and He did it.

He within and we are well enabled. Paul's wonderful statement always made my heart to sing Him praises.

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

I love that statement by Paul and those who won't receive Paul then we got John, read,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Now Gerry you can see the problem one has if he is continuing in sin. That is what comes of that course. You are not forgiven of future sining at the throne of grace no way shape or form and any teaching that is a liar.

If you think that I am advocating that we continue to LIVE in sin, you are mistaken!!! The blood of Christ is not meant to be a license to keep on living in sin!

[Gerr]

Gerry, I don't think I'll look for it but if you figure out what it is let us know.

If you don't know the difference, perhaps the following can be of help.

Sin that is unto death unless repented of:

‎ESV ‎‎1 Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. ‎‎5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. ‎‎6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. ‎‎7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. ‎‎8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil,. ‎‎9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. ‎‎10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

The Amplified is even more revealing:

1 Jn 3:4-10 Every who commits (practices) sin is guilty of lawlessness; for [that is what] is is, lawlessness (the breaking, violation of God's law by transgression or neglect -- being unrestrained and unregulated by His commands and His will). 5 You know that He appeared in visible form and became Man to take away [upon Himself] sins, and in Him there is no sin [essentially and forever]. 6 No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains in communion with and in obedience to Him - deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him].

7 Boys (lads), let no one deceive and lead you astray. He who practices righteousness [who is upright, conforming to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action, living a consistently conscientious life] is righteous, even as He is righteous.

8 [but] he who commits sin [who practices evildoing] is of the devil [takes his character from the evil one], for the devil has sinned (violated the divine law) from the beginning. The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works of the devil [has done].

9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

10 By this it is made clear who take their nature from God and are His children; no one who does not practice righteousness [who does not conform to God's will in purpose, thought, and action] is of God; neither is any one who does not love his brother (his fellow believer in Christ).

Notice that this sinning that he is talking about is present tense, i.e. a deliberate, continueing,transgression. That is what LIVING in sin is. Sin tells you to do something, you do it. Likewise, the practice of righteousness is a deliberate, present and continueing act.

Sin that is not unto death:

4 A person who unintentionally kills someone he never hated in the past may run to one of these cities to save his life. 5 Suppose two people go into the woods to cut wood. As one of them swings the ax to cut down a tree, the head flies off the handle, hits, and kills the other person. The one who accidentally killed the other person may run to one of these cities and save his life. 6 Otherwise, in a rage the relative who has the authority to avenge the death will pursue him. If the place is too far away, the relative may catch up with him and take his life even though he didn’t deserve the death penalty, because in the past he never hated the person he killed. 7 This is why I’m commanding you to set aside three cities for yourselves.

GOD'S WORD Translation. 1995 (Dt 19:4–7). Grand Rapids: Baker Publishing Group.

‎ESV ‎‎Nu 15:22 “But if you sin unintentionally, and do not observe all these commandments that the LORD has spoken to Moses, ‎‎23 all that the LORD has commanded you by Moses, from the day that the LORD gave commandment, and onward throughout your generations, ‎‎24 then if it was done unintentionally without the knowledge of the congregation, all the congregation shall offer one bull from the herd for a burnt offering, a pleasing aroma to the LORD, with its grain offering and its drink offering, according to the rule, and one male goat for a sin offering. ‎‎25 And the priest shall make atonement for all the congregation of the people of Israel, and they shall be forgiven, because it was a mistake, and they have brought their offering, a food offering to the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD for their mistake.

Non-intentional, non-deliberate transgressions, are automatically covered by our sacrificial Lamb. We are in Jesus, our City of Refuge.

Would God convict of murder that father in Texas who, in a fit of rage, killed the man whom he caught sexually abusing his 10 or 11 yo daughter? Is man more just than the Lawgiver?

[Gerr]

“The character is revealed, not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts” (SC 57, 58).

The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 6. 1980 (F. D. Nichol, Ed.) (287). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

Christ has been loved by you, although your faith has sometimes been feeble and your prospects confused. But Jesus is your Saviour. He does not save you because you are perfect, but because you need Him and in your imperfection have trusted in Him. Jesus loves you, my precious child. You may sing, "Under the shadow of Thy throne Still may we dwell secure; Sufficient is Thine arm alone, And our defense is sure."--Letter 46, 1879. {3SM 147.2}

White, E. G. (1980; 2002). Selected Messages From the Writings of Ellen G. White, Book 3; Selected Messages, Book 3 (147). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

[Woody]

I have said this before. But it is worthy of saying it again. I practice sin.

But I also hate sin and desire not to do it. It is also my practice - that when I do the sin that I hate - I repent and PLEAD with God to give me the power NOT to sin. So far - He has not answered my prayer. Thus - my sins are on HIS head - not mine.

Folks - we of ourselves CAN NOT resist sin. All we can do is ask HIM for the power to overcome. And when HE does not come through - we have to just accept the thorn in the flesh that He desires for us.

[Gibs]

Woody, I do have to disagree with you heartily.

He has not come and taken up abode in you if you still cannot overcome what you know are your shortcomings.

Your must be broken of your will, pride self and all, no master of any kind left in you, then by faith you can know He has come into your cleaned "house". You are the temple of God but He cannot and will not dwell in it until all other masters are cast out.

If we do not have the complete victory we must examine ourselves as to what we have not surrendered or given. Our all must be laid on the "altar". That is not works, but is the giving of yourself into His hands. It takes all the faith we can rake up believe me I know.

Maybe you are not picking up the faith needed knowing Christ in you and you have His power and discernment of what is truth and error. He also brings to you as the point of your weakness to fall is about to come you are alerted to set your will that you will do His will and not the old falling.

Woody, truly Bro. you must find this way He has made and you will be victorious overcomer, I know. I fought this thing for years and left the church for awhile and His Spirit kept at me and finally He led me to the scriptures I needed to see His Way for a man to be as He must have us to be in His Kingdom.

I came back into the Church and found at that time only about 10% ever had seen this and that now since I came back the church was teaching no victory and so there was a great falling away and out and I fought it hard for 10 to 12 yrs and finally some of us around 60 or more at times started a home church.

Woody it is a false theology that will be the loss of many souls. Don't fall into it. Jesus Christ will and reaches out that you too could be an overcomer and be one of His Chosen ones that He puts under His wings.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

He has not come and taken up abode in you if you still cannot overcome what you know are your shortcomings.

No. I am sinful. Of myself - I CANNOT overcome. All power for overcoming MUST come from HIM. All I can do is to acknowledge this and submit my overcoming to Him. For only HE can work through me to overcome.

My job is to ASK. I have surrended my will to Him NOW _

HIS job is to provide.

If HE doesn't provide after my asking - It ain't MY fault.

This false theology - that "I" must somehow receive enough power to overcome - or that "I" must overcome - is from the Devil and is his MO for these the last days.

[Gibs]

Gerry,

Really on the sin not unto death I find only God will be the ultimate judge of that. Example, You are chopping with an axe and the head flies off and kills your young son. Did you or did you not know the axe head was loose and would be a danger if any others were around. On another hand you knew the axe head was loose but was not an awake enough person to realize the danger of it.

We may not recognize the extent of our guilt but God will square it up in the judgment and our knee will bow and confess he is right true and just. We are held responsible for what we understand and what we shoud've and could've understood.

But at what point did our failure cause a sin not unto death. Anyway His Spirit will cause one to have grief over it and sorrow, or it should.

He says some are everlearning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.