A Must For Every Christian

[Overaged]

OV,

You do not have the many yrs no more to accomplish overcoming as many in the past have had.

What you must surrender is all of your will to do His will and that can be done as soon as you want to. You must want to or it will not happen. Like Jesus prayed, not my will but thine. I will to do thy will and no ifs and ans about it. Jesus as a man surrendered His will and all can. He again is our example.

All need to stop with the excuses and get with the breaking of self, pride and our will and be broken to do the Master's will. To refuse Him that you will be left deficient of His indwelling which you must have.

"OV" is a type of beer in some areas. You need to start calling me OA for Overaged, please.

I am puzzled why you would call my talk of "Christ and Him crucified," as our only Hope, an "excuse."

Tell us something, just how does one tell when they actually have/if they actually have surrendered "all of the will?" How do you decide if Gibs has surrendered "all?" Like the Pigweed illustration above; you don't even know them all yet, until the Holy Spirit, through the Word, reveals it to you.

Name one Bible example where the Holy Spirit has done this all at once.

[Overaged]

Woody it is not "my philosopy" as you want to call it but it is the way He has made we all must follow

[Woody]

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cat rooster.gif(4 downloads)

Why was the rooster afraid of crossing the hose? LOL

[Overaged]

Quote:

Attachments

cat rooster.gif(4 downloads)

Why was the rooster afraid of crossing the hose? LOL

ha ha ha!! Well; near as i can guess, cats don't like water???

[Gerr]

The real law which is enshrined in heaven governs both angels and men. Angel’s have no mother or father to honor, they were created by the hand of God. How do angels commit adultery?

The 10c are expressions of the two great commandments adapted to humans: Love to God & Love to fellow beings, Mt 22:36. Trying to separate the 10c from the law of love is unwarranted. The 10c tell us what's loving and what's not the loving thing to do.

Quote:

The law in heaven is not even written in any our languages. Ellen White made a statement and I don’t know where it is but she said the Law which is in heaven only contains ten words. The ten commandments contain a lot more than ten words.

Cheddar, the Heb word 'dabar' is rendered 'commandmnts' by most major translations.but it literally means 'words'. 1697 דָּבָר [dabar /daw·baw/] n m. From 1696; TWOT 399a; GK 1821; 1439 occurrences; AV translates as “word” 807 times, “thing” 231 times, “matter” 63 times, “acts” 51 times, “chronicles” 38 times, “saying” 25 times, “commandment” 20 times, and translated miscellaneously 204 times. 1 speech, word, speaking, thing. 1A speech. 1B saying, utterance. 1C word, words. 1D business, occupation, acts, matter, case, something, manner (by extension).

Strong, J. (1996). The exhaustive concordance of the Bible : Showing every word of the text of the common English version of the canonical books, and every occurrence of each word in regular order. (electronic ed.). Ontario: Woodside Bible Fellowship.

And so some Bibles so translates it.

‎ESV ‎‎Ex 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

And he was there with Jehovah forty days and forty nights; he ate no bread, and drank no water. —And he wrote on the tables the words of the covenant, the ten words.

Darby, J. N. (1996). The Holy Scriptures : A new translation from the original languages (Ex 34:28). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems.

And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights: he neither ate bread nor drank water, and he wrote upon the tables the ten words of the covenant.

The Holy Bible, Translated from the Latin Vulgate. 2009 (Ex 34:28). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

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What I do know for sure is that agape is the foundation of the whole thing so that’s the best understanding of it by far.

You are correct. Agape is the underlying principle of the 10c. As I pointed out above, the 10c are just elucidations of the TWO (love to God & fellowman) and of the ONE (Love).

[Gerr]

Now, if the cat could only develop a good right, and the rooster use its feet, we might have a fight.

[Gerr]

My cat loves to drink water.

[Overaged]

lol, I did have a reason for posting that...it shows the impossibility of works or self-based salvation theory, which is, in effect New Age Theology, even though it sounds "really Adventist."

[Woody]

lol, I did have a reason for posting that...it shows the impossibility of works or self-based salvation theory, which is, in effect New Age Theology, even though it sounds "really Adventist."

I agree - it IS a branch of New Age Theology and needs to be defeated.

The "sounding like SDA" is just the tool of the Devil. ANd we much be aware for this will be the wedge he will use in the last days. The "thinking WE can DO it" theology will be the end time issue that the Devil will use for we naturally want to think we can.

[JoeMo]

The so -called "New Theology" has been around since the apostolic days. Why else would Paul say the following to the Galatians:

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?" (Gal. 3:1-5)

and:

" 2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. 7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!" (Gal. 5:2-11)

Notice particularly Gal. 5:4. What does that mean? If I read rightly, it says I had better not base my salvation on law-keeping, or I am discarding God's grace.

Keeping in context, I infer from Gal 5:7 that if I am trying to justify myself before God by keeping the law, I am not obeying the truth.

As I have said before, I am not encouraging people to sin more so grace can abound. Paul also tells us in Romans that this is not the case. My current experience is that living by grace empowers me to obey. This results in a much more fulfilling spiritual experience than when I endeavored to keep the law in order to earn grace. But that's just me.

I look at the story of the original Passover where the Hebrews had to paint their doorposts with the blood of the lamb to be "passed over" by the death angel. Some of them probably painted their doorposts and went inside and went to sleep. Others probably did the same and stayed awake all night calling out to God, worrying that they didn't paint "good enough". Which Hebrews households were "passed over"? All of them! The ones that painted their doorposts and went to bed were just as "saved as those who stayed up all night worrying about whether they painted "good enough". It was probably a better experience for them, as well. Could it be the same way with us?

Could those of us who simply believe and rest in our faith be just as "saved" as those who struggle to keep the whole law "good enough"? I think so.

[Woody]

[Gail]

Quote:

I look at the story of the original Passover where the Hebrews had to paint their doorposts with the blood of the lamb to be "passed over" by the death angel. Some of them probably painted their doorposts and went inside and went to sleep. Others probably did the same and stayed awake all night calling out to God, worrying that they didn't paint "good enough". Which Hebrews households were "passed over"? All of them! The ones that painted their doorposts and went to bed were just as "saved as those who stayed up all night worrying about whether they painted "good enough". It was probably a better experience for them, as well. Could it be the same way with us?

Could those of us who simply believe and rest in our faith be just as "saved" as those who struggle to keep the whole law "good enough"? I think so.

[Gibs]

Also we know we reap what we sow. Do nothing and sow nothing and so reap nothing.

One thing I know for sure clever sayings are not going to save us, Satan beguiled Eve that way.

There is a part in it a man must take hold of and it is not "just believe and you will be saved". Jesus did it all we can rest on our "lees".

Will that rest be the eternal life rest or the eternal death rest.

EGW speaks, "In order to be partakers of the divine nature, we must co-operate with God. Man is no passive being, to be saved in indolence. Let no one think that men and women are going to be taken to heaven without engaging in the struggle here below. We have a battle to fight, a victory to gain. God says to us, "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." How?--"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." Man works, and God works. Man is called upon to strain every muscle, and to exercise every faculty, in the struggle for immortality; but it is God who supplies the efficiency". {RH, April 28, 1910 par. 3}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Why has the return of Christ been so long delayed? We read in The Great Controversy,457-8 that He could have returned shortly after 1844 but that because of unbelief the finishing of the work was delayed. In the following years, the people fell into a lamentable condition described as the Laodicean condition until in 1888 the Lord sent a most precious message that if it had been received, beleived, and acted upon, would have enabled His professed people to overcome as Jesus overcame.

It was a very simple message. The people were invited to enter into God's rest so that He might, in and through them, be able to finish the work and cut it short in righteousness. The people were invited to hang their helpless souls upon the merits of the crucified and risen Saviour. With the simple faith of a little child they were to rest in His all-sufficient merits that they might be clothed with the robe of Christ's righteousness (filled with the Spirit) which would have been made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. See T.M.92,93.

But the light was resisted until in 1901 this testimony was sent:

"We may have to remain in this world because of insubordination many more years." Evangelism,696.

So, from this, we can see that the finishing of the great controversy between good and evil hinges upon God having a people, at last, through whom He will demonstrate, once and for all, that Satan's greatest lie that it is impossible for His people to overcome as Jesus overcame is indeed, a lie.

The same unbelief that prevented the finishing of the work in 1844 and shortly afterward and in 1888 and shortly afterward still exists today. The only difference is that this unbelief has gotten much worse.

sky

[Gibs]

Amen, Sky,

He does have a small percentage that fall in that overcome as He expects.

Am 5:1 ¶ Hear ye this word which I take up against you, even a lamentation, O house of Israel.

Am 5:2 The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up.

Am 5:3 For thus saith the Lord GOD; The city that went out by a thousand shall leave an hundred, and that which went forth by an hundred shall leave ten, to the house of Israel.

Am 5:4 ¶ For thus saith the LORD unto the house of Israel, Seek ye me, and ye shall live:

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

To go HIS WAY is not a galling experience, it is the way of peace and rest in Him in this world of turmoil. Satan has spread false ideas to keep people from the only way of salvation. It is on the order of the deception he beguiled Eve with but even more subtle and convincing. The smooth wide downhill road he presents men love it, but it don't lead upward to where we must go to be with Jesus.

Go through that Narrow not easily seen gate and get on that Narrow way and Jesus is there constantly lifting you with His Strength to do the fulfilling climb to the Kingdom of Bliss He has waiting.

But it does leave all the worldly baggage behind with our pride and self, but a new will, a will to do His Will and our love same as His Love, the commandments are our hearts desire now. They too have become a transcript of our character. Now a New Creature in Him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

These will be the remnant.

sky

[Overaged]

The so -called "New Theology" has been around since the apostolic days. Why else would Paul say the following to the Galatians:

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?" (Gal. 3:1-5)

and:

" 2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. 7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!" (Gal. 5:2-11)

Notice particularly Gal. 5:4. What does that mean? If I read rightly, it says I had better not base my salvation on law-keeping, or I am discarding God's grace.

Keeping in context, I infer from Gal 5:7 that if I am trying to justify myself before God by keeping the law, I am not obeying the truth.

As I have said before, I am not encouraging people to sin more so grace can abound. Paul also tells us in Romans that this is not the case. My current experience is that living by grace empowers me to obey. This results in a much more fulfilling spiritual experience than when I endeavored to keep the law in order to earn grace. But that's just me.

I look at the story of the original Passover where the Hebrews had to paint their doorposts with the blood of the lamb to be "passed over" by the death angel. Some of them probably painted their doorposts and went inside and went to sleep. Others probably did the same and stayed awake all night calling out to God, worrying that they didn't paint "good enough". Which Hebrews households were "passed over"? All of them! The ones that painted their doorposts and went to bed were just as "saved as those who stayed up all night worrying about whether they painted "good enough". It was probably a better experience for them, as well. Could it be the same way with us?

Could those of us who simply believe and rest in our faith be just as "saved" as those who struggle to keep the whole law "good enough"? I think so.

Well said JoeMo

[JoeMo]

Thanks OA. I have been invited to speak at an SDA church other than my own on topics related to this thread this coming Sabbath; and on the topic "Why We Should Not Fear the End Times" next month. Please pray that I may faithfully represent our Savior without compromise; and that I offend no one (although I am concerned that people will take offense regardless of how "gentle" I am, because it is the "New Theology").

I'm also concerned about how to present the second topic to an audience that has been indoctrinated for years that "end-time events will be worse than we can possibly imagine; so be very afraid". Hopefully, God can use me to effectively demonstrate that "perfect love casteth out all fear".

May the Word of God and His Spirit guide me; and may my example be the best certification of His Truth!

[Overaged]

Something that always works is prayer...

[skyblue888]

Trusting in the merits of Christ in order to bring Christ's righteousness into the life is not legalism or trying to reach perfection by works. On the contrary it is the only true faith for Christ's righteousness empowers us. It imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the repentance, all the inclination, all the pardon of sin. It is made manifest in obedience to the law and it is the obedience of Christ according to the Scriptures. 2 Cor.10:5.

This faith is the faith of Jesus (Rev.14:12) just as it is the obedience (righteousness) of Christ in and through us.

This is the true religion, the only religion of the Bible.

sky

[Overaged]

Trusting in the merits of Christ in order to bring Christ's righteousness into the life is not legalism or trying to reach perfection by works.

sky

[Gibs]

OK, then JM and OV what then do you find the "new theology" of today being? The topic of salvation is the one that matters, the rest if not salvation issues come next to hash out.

I find today this issue has gone widely astray and ends up being a false gospel, saved in sin. Does God put your sining bent out of you? Not without you doing your part. He does do the most part, our part is so grating to man today he don't want to do it. He don't want to surrender his pride and his will TOTALLY. The man must be dead of self, Christ and His will must be full Master, our will His Will, Our love, His Love and then He comes and dwells within and we willinly do His Will, all of it. There is no more grating to it no more.

That one then can easily become one of His Victorious Overcomers. We must be His, He must be Master of our lives, not unwillingly but happily fully willing.

Friends there is no legalism to the one and only way to be an overcomer.

Because, read,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

My plan is to get to heaven on the basis of Jesus's life covering mine so that my life is not seen but covered by the blood of Jesus.

I find it interesting that so many people are afraid to say that without putting a 'but' into the statement and continuing on ad infinitum! A must for every believer in Christ is John 3:16. Simple...simple...simple...

[Overaged]

quote]My plan is to get to heaven on the basis of Jesus's life covering mine so that my life is not seen but covered by the blood of Jesus./quote]

I find it interesting that so many people are afraid to say that without putting a 'but' into the statement and continuing on ad infinitum! A must for every believer in Christ is John 3:16. Simple...simple...simple...

but...

[Gail]