A Must For Every Christian

[skyblue888]

I believe the merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf in order to appropriate all the blessings of the Covenant of grace.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.5,744.

And the Holy Spirit is the creative energy that is in the Word of God to fulfill every jot and tittle of it.

"Be Holy."

What heavenly themes! To think about what the creative energy of that Word is capable of doing and the rest that is thus offered to us!

sky

[skyblue888]

"If you would gather together everything that is good and holy and noble and lovely in man and then present the subject to the angels of God as acting a part in the salvation of the soul or in merit, the proposition would be rejected as treason." Faith & Works,24.

"Works without faith are dead, and faith without works is dead. Works will never save us; it is the merits of Christ that will avail in our behalf." Ibid,48.

That says it all, does it not?

sky

[JoeMo]

Sky, my previous post was not meant to be directed at you; I apologize. It was meant for all who imagine that thier own tighteousness has anything to do with their salvation. I really appreciate most of what you post. Again, I mean no offense.

[skyblue888]

Sky,

Are you perfectly obedient in mind and deed? I'm not. Have you had lustful or hateful thoughts? I have. Are you totally immune to gossip? I'm not. Are you sure you have confessed and repented of every specific sin you have ever committed? I'm not. Are If you're anything like me,, you need Christ's righteousness; or you're not good enough.

We don't earn grace - it is a free gift. If we think we have to earn it, we reject Christ's gift. We say we don't want His free gift. We want to earn it.

You say in your signature line that ""The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." (S.C.36). Do you really believe that, or do you believe that Christ's sacrifice is insufficient; and that we must add to it by our good works and perfect sin management to make it "good enough"?

JoeM0

______________

That was not addressed to me?

sky :)

[skyblue888]

Sky, my previous post was not meant to be directed at you; I apologize. It was meant for all who imagine that thier own tighteousness has anything to do with their salvation. I really appreciate most of what you post. Again, I mean no offense.

No need to apologize if it was not addressed to me but even if it were addressed to me as it clearly seems to be, still no need to apologize. You are entitled to ask as many questions as you wish.

Thank you for your appreciation.

To God be the glory.

sky

[skyblue888]

"If you would gather together everything that is good and holy and noble and lovely in man and then present the subject to the angels of God as acting a part in the salvation of the soul or in merit, the proposition would be rejected as treason." Faith & Works,24.

"Works without faith are dead, and faith without works is dead. Works will never save us; it is the merits of Christ that will avail in our behalf." Ibid,48.

That says it all, does it not?

sky

Here are two more of the same:

"Although we have no merit in ourselves, in the great goodness and love of God we are rewarded as if the merit were our own. When we have done all the good we can possibly do, we are still unprofitable servants. (Luke 17:10) We have done only what was our duty. What we have accomplished has been wrought solely through the grace of Christ, and no reward is due to us from God on the ground of our merit. But through the merit of our Saviour, every promise that God has made will be fulfilled, and every man will be rewarded according to his deeds." {RH, June 27, 1893 par. 15

"We are accepted through Christ’s merits alone; and the acts of mercy, the deeds of love, which we perform, are the fruits of faith; and they become a blessing to us; for men are to be rewarded according to their works. It is the fragrance of the merit of Christ that makes our good works acceptable to God, and it is grace—His Spirit-- that enables us to do the works for which He rewards us. Our works, in and of themselves have no merit. When we have done all that it is possible for us to do, we are to count ourselves as unprofitable servants. Luke 17:10. We deserve no thanks from God. We have only done what it was our duty to do, and our works could not have been performed by the strength of our own sinful nature.” 5 B.C.1122.

[Gibs]

To continiue on and now from the pen of Inspiration, please read and consider carefully,

"God Works, and Man Works"

"God has given men faculties and capabilities. God works and cooperates with the gifts He has imparted to man, and man, by being a partaker of the divine nature and doing the work of Christ, may be an overcomer and win eternal life. The Lord does not propose to do the work He has given man powers to do. Man's part must be done. He must be a laborer together with God, yoking up with Christ, learning His meekness, His lowliness. God is the all-controlling power. He bestows the gifts; man receives them and acts with the power of the grace of Christ as a living agent. {FW 26.1}

"Ye are God's husbandry" (1 Corinthians 3:9). The heart is to be worked, subdued, plowed, harrowed, seeded, to bring forth its harvest to God in good works. "Ye are God's building." You cannot build yourself. There is a Power outside of yourself that must do the building of the church, putting brick upon brick, always cooperating with the faculties and powers given of God to man. The Redeemer must find a home in His building. God works and man works. There needs to be a continual taking in of the gifts of God, in order that there may be as free a giving out of these gifts. It is a continual receiving and then restoring. The Lord has provided that the soul shall receive nourishment from Him, to be given out again in the working out of His purposes. In order that there be an outflowing, there must be an income of divinity to humanity. "I will dwell in them, and walk in them" (2 Corinthians 6:16). {FW 26.2}

The soul temple is to be sacred, holy, pure, and undefiled. There must be a copartnership in which all the power is of God and all the glory belongs to God. The responsibility rests with us. We must receive in thoughts and in feelings, to give in expression. The law of the human and the divine action makes the receiver a laborer together with God. It brings man where he can, united with divinity, work the works of God. Humanity touches humanity. Divine power and the human agency combined will be a complete success, for Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything. {FW 26.3}

None can have an excuse, the knees will all bow to that in the judgment.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Joe moe and Gerry, God is doing the work in me making me as perfect here as He wants of me. Please read the post and quotes above, my help to understand my position of seeing that we are to work with God, all isn't just made to be in us. If that was the case He would have done that for all in the beginning, but then we would not be totally free. Thing is He requires us to be free within His will.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

It was not supposed to be addressed directly to you; it was meant for the forum (except the last paragraph. I try to play "nice"; but when I read the post, it didn't sound "nice; and it was too late to edit it. Sorry!

[JoeMo]

Ahhh, Gibs;

That helps me understand. If you are saying "God and I are working on my sin problem together - diligently and patiently", I agree wholeheartedly. Do you agree that until "He who began a good work in [me]" actually completes it, that His grace completely covers me? I think/hope it does; and that's what keeps me going.

[Gibs]

JoeMoe,

Most have a problem though knowing with Him in us and strenthening us overcoming is no problem and it now is easy to do His entire will as His Son did as one of us taking no power but what He gives us to do the same. True we all have fell in sin and He forgives us of that and gives us a clean slate at repentance and surrender and our will given making Him our only Master.

Some too want to get away from the fact man has a part to do that it can be accomplished.

I will have some more quotes from EGW as I find she explains it best of all.

Here is a short one,

"We have got a battle to fight; we have got a heaven to gain, we have got a crown to gain, and may God help every one of us. We want to act as though it were a reality with us. I cannot afford to lose my soul. I want to say to every one of you, for Christ's sake do what you can. Not a one shall enter into that city that is not an overcomer. Every one must overcome in this world." {NI Rec, August 17, 1909 par. 13}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

We can never be God (what blasphemy such a claim would be) but it is given to us to become partakers of the divine nature. 2 Peter 1:4.

If I cannot be God, then I can NEVER be LIKE God. Period. Otherwise you are holding out the same promise the serpent made to Eve - you will be like God!

Partaker? Yes! Will the partaker of divinity be exactly like the One sharing his divinity? C'mon. How difficult is that to see?

And if you can't cite just ONE who has ever done it, then it's futile citing all the quotes you can muster.

Quote:

The Holy Spirit, through the apostle Paul, prayed that Christ might dwell in our hearts by faith that we might be filled with all the fullness of God. See Eph.3:14-19.

Same Paul said, ‎NIV84 ‎‎Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

Pursue perfection? It's a pursuit of chimera, my friend.

[Gerr]

Some too want to get away from the fact man has a part to do that it can be accomplished.

Name ONE, just ONE who has ever done it. PLEASE!!!

[JoeMo]

Gibs,

I'm getting sqeamish again here. First of all (and this may be an issue), I'm not a big fan of putting EGW's writings on par with scripture; so quoting her doesn't hold a lot of water with me. One of the reasons I converted from Catholicism to Adventism is because I had problems with papal infallibility. In the NT, no one holds the "office" of prophet.

Second, I see at least part of the battle as between man-made organized religion and the Word of God. In my experience, organized religion exists to control us into sustaining the religious corporation through guilt and threats. It puts a heavy yoke on us (for example, legalism and demanding 100% of tithe and offering). I think Paul warns us of denominationalism when he says in 1 Cor. 1:11-13:

"11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

Sorry this is incomplete and ending abruptly. More later ...

[Gerr]

I will have some more quotes from EGW as I find she explains it best of all.

Well, here are some EGW quotes.

1.

The conduct of Christians is like that of their Lord. He [bEGIN P.170] erected the standard, and it is left for us to say whether or not we will rally around it. Our Lord and Saviour laid aside His dominion, His riches and glory, and sought after us, that He might save us from misery and make us like Himself. He humbled Himself and took our nature that we might be able to learn of Him and, imitating His life of benevolence and self-denial, follow Him step by step to heaven. You cannot equal the copy; but you can resemble it and, according to your ability, do likewise. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." Such love must dwell in your hearts, that you will be ready to give the treasures and honors of this world if thereby you may influence one soul to engage in the service of Christ. {2T 169.4}

Testimonies for the Church, Volume 2; Testimonies, Volume 2. 1855; 2002 (169–170). Pacific Press Publishing Association.

2. If those who speak so freely of perfection in the flesh, could see things in the true light, they would recoil with horror from their presumptuous ideas. In showing the fallacy of their assumptions in regard to holy flesh, the Lord is seeking to prevent men and women from putting on His words a construction which leads to pollution of body, soul, and spirit. Let this phase of doctrine be carried a little further, and it will lead to the claim that its advocates cannot sin; that since they have holy flesh, their actions are all holy. What a door of temptation would thus be opened! {2SM 32.2}

White, E. G. (1958; 2002). Selected Messages From the Writings of Ellen G. White, Book 2; Selected Messages, Book 2 (32). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

3. We must imitate God’s perfection. "Ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building." We are to make the foundation of every building thorough and solid, as for eternity. --MS. 63, 1899. {MM 125.2}

White, E. G. (1932; 2002). Medical Ministry (125). Pacific Press Publishing Association.

An imitation can NEVER be as good as the original!!! I could cite more statements, but if the above cannot convince you, I doubt anything will.

[Gibs]

Very true Gerry, If we equaled our God and Saviour that would be making more of it than is expected, an unreachable goal. I like the quote "We must imitate God's perfection".

He is our example and goal to be like. Our protégé', our Champion to copy and adore.

That of course will lead one away from the course of the world climbing higher each day being our goal to be like Him.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

On this subject here is a little more that may help us balance up on this issue,

" When Christ bowed His head and died, He bore the pillars of Satan's kingdom with Him to the earth. He vanquished Satan in our human nature. The nature by which the enemy was overcome is the same nature over which in Eden he obtained an easy victory. He sustained a humiliating defeat. He was overcome by the human nature of Christ. The power of the Saviour's Godhead was hidden. He must overcome in human nature, relying upon God for His power. This is the privilege of all who accept Jesus Christ. In proportion to their faith will be their victory." {12MR 410.3}

present a balanced message,

"Let my brethren be very careful how they present the subject of faith and works before the people, lest minds become confused. . . . {NL 38.3}

Let no man present the idea that man has little or nothing to do in the great work of overcoming; for God does nothing for man without his cooperation. Neither say that after you have done all you can on your part, Jesus will help you. Christ has said, "Without Me ye can do nothing" (John 15:5). From first to last man is to be a laborer together with God. Unless the Holy Spirit works upon the human heart, at every step we shall stumble and fall. Man's efforts alone are nothing but worthlessness; but cooperation with Christ means a victory. . . . {NL 38.4}

Never leave the impression on the mind that there is little or nothing to do on the part of man; but rather teach man to cooperate with God, that he may be successful in overcoming. {NL 39.1}

Let no one say that your works have nothing to do with your rank and position before God. In the judgment the sentence pronounced is according to what has been done or to what has been left undone." (Matthew 25:34-40). {NL 39.2}

We have a part to do in the overcoming which must be done. In doing so we will humiliate Satan as Christ did

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

A copy is a copy is a copy. It can never be equal to the original. So this idea of yours that one can achieve the perfection of Christ is out of the question. Imitate? Yes! But an imitation is an imitation.

Yeah, I've got a couple of Rolex and a Breitling that I can sell you for $100 a piece.

[JoeMo]

Hey Gibs et all,

To continue my previous thoughts...

What does it mean to be reconciled?

"9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation." (Rom. 5:9-11)

"17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." (2 Cor. 5:17-21)

"14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near." Eph. 2:14-17)

"19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. 21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation —"(Col. 1:19-22)

These verses say to me that we are not reconciled by our commandment keeping; but by the sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf.

What are the "letters on stone" that Paul refers to here?

"7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!" (2 Cor.3:9-11)

The only things I recall that were written on tablets of stone were the 10 Commandments.

What was Peter referring to in Acts 15:7-11 when he said:

"6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Peter all but admitted that even he and the apostles couldn't keep the whole law.

I'm not saying that we aren't supposed to obey; I'm saying that our salvation is not dependent upon upon our puny efforts at obedience and sin management. I have to side with Gerry on this - I have never known anyone who could keep the Law perfectly. I'll go one step further and say that those who put that requirement on themselves and others tend to be the most judgmental and "mean" Christians I know. (For the record, I'm not saying you are one of "those people") Is it because, when they compare themselves to us who are too weak to keep the commandments as well or better than they do, they think that they are better than us sinners; so they comfort themselves with that thought?

As I've stated before, God is enough of a gentleman and respects our free will enough that He will judge us by whatever we choose to be judged on - our own merits or the merits of Christ.

That's why Jesus tolerated (even identified with?) gluttons and drunkards and prostitutes because He loved them and they loved Him back. Yet He eschewed the Pharisees (the "holy ones" of the denomination of the time) who never loved Him, and only sought His death because in their eyes He was a Sabbath breaker and a blasphemer; and He threatened the stability of the denomination and their control over the people.

[Gibs]

For sure Joe, our efforts alone are no match against the foe. But we must combine in effort with Divine power that is free to all to be had. Men don't want to do anything and be saved. I've brought out so much to show man is to work out his own salvation and he has the greatest helper there is.

There is so much to show of scripture that we are to work it out with His help.

Php 2:12 ¶ Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Then I like these three verses very much and the one I use for a signature verse,

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

For sure we want to avoid the second death, so let's overcome as He says we must.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

We must be proven that we will not be a liability to raise up sin in the New Kingdom of our God and Saviour. That is by becoming an overcomer.

We take with us the character we have developed to one or the other resurrections.

Because He is far greater than Satan and will come and be in us we can do it.

Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Quote:

Brethren, we were forgiven from all sins when our Savior died on the cross. But this is just the first of the three dimensions of the gospel.

Yes, Samie, everyone was forgiven at the Cross. But let me ask you, was everyone saved at that moment?

Yes, all descendants of Adam & Eve with no one left out nor exempted, were saved from the curse of sin. But it does not mean all will inherit life eternal, because only those who, in the 2nd dimension, prove to be overcomers will, in the 3rd dimension, be rewarded with life eternal; all others, wrath of God and the lake of fire.

[Gerr]

Samie, my friend, it does not matter what dimension or level we are talking about. While all sins past, present, and future,were forgiven or atoned for at the Cross, it is not in the sinner's possession UNTIL he repents and accepts that atonement. And that is why Jesus is presently ministering in the heavenly sanctuary.

Does the name Lt. Hiroo Onoda ring a bell to you? Recall that the end of hostilities between the Allies and Japan ended on Sept. 2, 1945. Yet, in spite of the declaration of peace, many Japanese soldiers kept on fighting even after hearing of the surrender of Japan, & Lt. Onoda held out in the Philippines until 1974! Same thing happened after Appomatox that ended the civil war. Many Rebs kept on fighting. God declared peace and amnesty at the Cross, but peace will not come to the sinner until s/he repents & accepts it.

[skyblue888]

What is our cooperation that we may become co-laborer with God? Faith is the labor. Heb.4:11,3.

Remember how inspiration tells us that "the matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." F.W.64.

First we must confess before God that we don't understand it because He says so. Then say, "Lord, teach me."

Faith is the labor. Faith is our work. We are to daily apply to the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring His righteousness into our life and His righteousness accomplishes everything. (F.W.65,66,27) It imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the repentance, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins. (F.W.24) And His righteousness is in His word as it is written, "The word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness." Isaiah 45:23.

"Present your case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross. F.W.106.

This is our life business. This is the key of knowledge because it is the faith that works by love to purify the soul.

"The sinner must ever look toward Calvary and with the simple faith of a little child he must rest in the merits of Christ, accepting His righteousness and believing in His mercy." Evangelism,185.

"This is the rest by which we may cause the weary to rest, and this is the refreshing, yet they would not hear." Isaiah 28:12.

sky

[Samie]

Samie, my friend, it does not matter what dimension or level we are talking about. While all sins past, present, and future,were forgiven or atoned for at the Cross, it is not in the sinner's possession UNTIL he repents and accepts that atonement. And that is why Jesus is presently ministering in the heavenly sanctuary.

Does the name Lt. Hiroo Onoda ring a bell to you? Recall that the end of hostilities between the Allies and Japan ended on Sept. 2, 1945. Yet, in spite of the declaration of peace, many Japanese soldiers kept on fighting even after hearing of the surrender of Japan, & Lt. Onoda held out in the Philippines until 1974! Same thing happened after Appomatox that ended the civil war. Many Rebs kept on fighting. God declared peace and amnesty at the Cross, but peace will not come to the sinner until s/he repents & accepts it.

Very true, indeed, brother Gerry.

The life of Onoda is an example of those who cannot believe they were already saved from sin and that the battle against sin has ended on the cross. Onoda lived a life of constant sense of fear, not knowing the war is over; in contrast, those who knew the war was over lived a life of peace. In the same manner, those who cannot believe the battle against sin is over, lives in constant fear of being overpowered by sin. Those who believes the battle against sin had been won by Christ, lives a life of peace, knowing sin cannot overpower them anymore.

God, on the cross, did not only make a declaration; He made that declaration a reality in the life of all.

Man in sin cannot accept what is good; the fact that man can now accept what is good is proof enough he had been saved from sin. The accepting comes after the saving, NOT before it.

[Samie]

Samie, my friend, it does not matter what dimension or level we are talking about.