A Must For Every Christian

[skyblue888]

Goodness - some of the posts on here make God sound like a shrewd taskmaster, eager to whip us if we get out of line; or a distant and petty emperor whose slogan is "My way or the highway". It makes me feel like saying "yes; God loves me; but He must be so disappointed in me right now". Or when I do sin, I should stay away from God for a while until he cools off; because He probably isn't speaking to me right now.

You might quote to me Matt. 10:38:

"38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me."

Well Jesus' suffering and death didn't last for 33 years - It lasted for a couple days! (Don't get me wrong - I don't discount for 1 second the infinite cost He paid so save me!) Between birth and death, it seems like He had at least a few good times with His friends. He even made 6 big pots of wine for a bunch of people at a wedding who were already drunk!

Let's say my earthly parents told me that I was a "bad boy", a "loser" and "if you don't change, you will never amount to anything" to the point that I tell myself the same thing day after day; even though I am grown up and leave home. Further, my parents constantly theatened to kick me out of the house whever I get out of line. How will I behave? Probably like a cowering "bad" man" and a loser" not comfortable to call anyplace "home".

"A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of." (Luke 6:45)

Is that what God wants? When I sin, does He tell me how "bad" I am; and what a "loser" I am? Does he constantly threaten to kick me out of His House? The parents I have never did that; and the God I worship would never do that either. He constantly tells me how much He loves me; and how happy He is to have me in the family.

Let's say further that my parents burn me to teach me not to play with matches; and break my bones to teach me not to do stupid dangerous things; telling me the whole time that they are doing it because they love me. What kind of twisted concept am I going to have of love?

So is God, - who is infinitely better than my parents could ever be, going to arrange an "accident" for me or give me cancer just to get my attention and turn me around? The God I worship would never do that; and if the "true" God does those things, I'd just as soon go into oblivion when I die. The God I worship, woos me with kindness and mercy and grace.

"Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?" (Rom. 2:4)

I'm sticking with the God of love and mercy; not the God of wrath and judgement.

I am sticking with the God of Love too. He has forgiven me seventy times seven and many more times but that doesn't mean that God does not expect me to overcome as Jesus overcame especially when He has made provision, by appropriating the merits of His infinite sacrifice, to overcome as He overcame, for by appropriating His merits to ourselves, we become partakers of His divine nature and His divine nature will accomplish in and through us what the Father accomplished in and through Him.

sky

[JoeMo]

Thanks Gibs,

I remember thinking how hard (for me practically impossible) to "please" God by consistently keeping His Law by sheer force of will. In the current state of my spiritual life of "trusting" God for my salvation rather than constantly trying to please Him with my submission, I believe I am doing much better in the area of obedience. But it's not by sheer force of will and effectiveness at personal sin management. It's like I'm so preoccupied with the the amazing love and grace of God and Jesus rather then my own unworthiness that I don't think about "law-keeping" much - it just seems to happen (most of the time). Do I still sin? Absolutely! But I don't beat myself up for it (too badly, at least). I take my sin boldly to the throne of grace, exchange it for grace (unmerited favor) and mercy, and move on. It's what seems to work for me. When we look for what God IS doing in our lives rather than what He is NOT doing, we have a much more satisfying relationship and experience much more victory over sin. For me, the victory is the product of the relationship - not the other way around.

Your passion about this and other spiritual topics, and your love of God and people demonstrate that you obviously have an awesome relationship with your Savior.

Blessings to you brother.

[skyblue888]

"A life in Christ is a life of restfulness. There may be no ecstasy of feeling, but there should be an abiding, peaceful trust. Your hope is not in yourself; it is in Christ. Your weakness is united to His strength, your ignorance to His wisdom, your frailty to His enduring might. . . . {3SM 356.3}

Gibs, this quote you quoted earlier.

Now notice this one:

"God will accept everyone that comes to Him TRUSTING WHOLLY in the MERITS of a crucified Saviour. Love springs up in the heart. There may be no ecstasy of feeling but there is an abiding, peaceful trust." 1 S.M.354.

Trusting wholly in the MERITS of Christ is the Holy Grail of the plan of salvation for "He was treated as we deserve that we might be treated as He deserves." D.A.25.

It is the good will of the Father to treat us according to the merits of Christ! And since it is His gracious will to treat us according to the merits of Christ, there is no room for the merits of the creature for Christ's merits are all-sufficient.

sky

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

"When we take hold of the merits of Christ, we shall overcome."

Simple.

Thus we read, in another place, "The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347.

sky

"If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth."

1 John 1:8 NLT

"If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]." 1 John 1:9 AMP Brackets, parenthesis their's LHC

God blesses!

[JoeMo]

Thanks Sky,

Just a thought:

You said that "He has forgiven me seventy times seven and many more times but that doesn't mean that God does not expect me to overcome as Jesus overcame especially when He has made provision ..." If God knew you before you were knitted together in your mothers womb; and He already knows everything about your future. He has no "expectations". Expectations imply uncertainty; and there is no uncertainty in God's realm of knowledge. He knew everything would ever do while He was hanging on the cross; and He said "this blood is for you, too."

Blessings to you!

[skyblue888]

Quote:

"When we take hold of the merits of Christ, we shall overcome."

Simple.

Thus we read, in another place, "The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347.

sky

"If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth."

1 John 1:8 NLT

"If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]." 1 John 1:9 AMP Brackets, parenthesis their's LHC

God blesses!

The true child of God never makes the claim that he is without sin. On the contrary, at all times he confesses himself to be the chief of sinners even though he would sacrifice life itself rather than willingly commit one wrong act. See C.O.L.160.

sky :)

[Gibs]

It matters not how you twist and turn it the canidate for the kingdom is an overcomer. Overcomer of what? Just what Jesus overcame. There is no way one can get around that fact and know in his heart that he is safe and has it right.

That' what the plan of salvation is all about, a way that each could overcome. It has to be accomplished and imbedded in each heart and soul as that is what you will be resurreted with, the same character you had at the death of the body.

There is only one way, that is the way He has made that you and all may have power to walk as He walked and it is expected you need to believe and know it.

He forgives and forgives and forgives, but one unfogiven one that is still not purged out of the heart will spell disaster.

Do not fool around no longer, the time is getting short and fast.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Thanks Sky,

Just a thought:

You said that "He has forgiven me seventy times seven and many more times but that doesn't mean that God does not expect me to overcome as Jesus overcame especially when He has made provision ..." If God knew you before you were knitted together in your mothers womb; and He already knows everything about your future. He has no "expectations". Expectations imply uncertainty; and there is no uncertainty in God's realm of knowledge. He knew everything would ever do while He was hanging on the cross; and He said "this blood is for you, too."

Blessings to you!

Blessings to you too according to the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour.

Of course God knows everything about us even before we were born. He knew eveything about you and me even before the angels were created. But I am not sure what you are trying to say as to God not having expectations from us.

Could you elaborate a little more on that, please.

I do believe that God expects us to choose the right instead of the wrong. He expects us to choose to exercise the faith that He Himself has imparted to every man. Rom.12:3; Heb.12:2.

It is written that when this faith is exercised it grows exceedingly. 2 Thess.1:3.

So I would think that the Lord expects a lot from us given the infinity of the sacrifice that was made in our behalf.

I do believe that He expects us to daily lay hold by faith of the merits of His Son that we might be clothed with the glistening vesture of His righteousness which accomplishes everything, imparting all the powers, all the grace, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins.

What say you?

sky

[JoeMo]

Sky,

To elaborate a little further, if God has expectations of us, He must not know the outcome of our future. He does; and He is rooting for us all the time. That being said, God I have heard it put forth that God knows all of the possible outcomes for our lives; but He leaves it up to our free will to determine which of those outcomes will come to fruition. I don't know...

Please don't misunderstand - I am all for obeying God. But in my current mindset, I dont "have to" keep the Sabbath, I "get" to keep it. I don't "have" to pray, I "get" to pray. The commandment "Don't commit adultery" doesn't take things all the way. Paul tells us to love our wives as Christ loved the church (i.e., unconditionally); so I believe it is what God desires of me above and beyond the commandment, and gives me the grace to do.

Maybe that what God means when He promised to write the Law in our hearts - that we would consider His commandments to be privileges and "fringe benefits" that go along with already being a "member of the Family" rather than obligations of Law required for fellowship with Him. Does that make any sense?

[Overaged]

That's a good point about obedience JoeMoe

[Gerr]

Since I see that sinless perfection still being foisted, let me post this again:

The conduct of Christians is like that of their Lord. He [bEGIN P.170] erected the standard, and it is left for us to say whether or not we will rally around it. Our Lord and Saviour laid aside His dominion, His riches and glory, and sought after us, that He might save us from misery and make us like Himself. He humbled Himself and took our nature that we might be able to learn of Him and, imitating His life of benevolence and self-denial, follow Him step by step to heaven. You cannot equal the copy; but you can resemble it and, according to your ability, do likewise. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself." Such love must dwell in your hearts, that you will be ready to give the treasures and honors of this world if thereby you may influence one soul to engage in the service of Christ. {2T 169.4}

Testimonies for the Church, Volume 2; Testimonies, Volume 2. 1855; 2002 (169–170). Pacific Press Publishing Association.

2. If those who speak so freely of perfection in the flesh, could see things in the true light, they would recoil with horror from their presumptuous ideas. In showing the fallacy of their assumptions in regard to holy flesh, the Lord is seeking to prevent men and women from putting on His words a construction which leads to pollution of body, soul, and spirit. Let this phase of doctrine be carried a little further, and it will lead to the claim that its advocates cannot sin; that since they have holy flesh, their actions are all holy. What a door of temptation would thus be opened! {2SM 32.2}

White, E. G. (1958; 2002). Selected Messages From the Writings of Ellen G. White, Book 2; Selected Messages, Book 2 (32). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

3. We must imitate God’s perfection. "Ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building." We are to make the foundation of every building thorough and solid, as for eternity. --MS. 63, 1899. {MM 125.2}

White, E. G. (1932; 2002). Medical Ministry (125). Pacific Press Publishing Association.

An imitation can NEVER be as good as the original!!! I could cite more statements, but if the above cannot convince you, I doubt anything will.

[Woody]

That's a good point about obedience JoeMoe

[Woody]

Quote:

An imitation can NEVER be as good as the original!!! I could cite more statements, but if the above cannot convince you, I doubt anything will.

[JoeMo]

A lot of people fail to implement all of the "fringe benefits" of membership in family (e.g., trusts, wills,life insurance benefits, regular get-togethers); companies (e.g., 401k's, insurance, Flexible Spending Accounts, vacation time), club membership (e.g., golf, tennis, swimming); or U.S. citizenship (e.g., Medicaid, Worker's Comp, Unemployment Insurance). It may lower their quality of life; but it doesn't usually kick them out of the family, company, club, or country. Should I expect any less from a loving Father? Once I've accepted Jesus an my Lord and Savior, confessed my sinfulness, and I'm adopted into the Family, should failure on my part (due to stupidity or stubbornness) to perfectly and consistently implement some of the family benefits get me kicked out of the Family? If His grace isn't the solely sufficient pre-requisite to adoption - if receiving grace is in any way contingent upon upon my works- it ceases to be grace (unmerited and undeserved favor); and my salvation is still based on the Law; not grace. I don't think one can mix the two. It's either all about grace or all about works, baby! At least I believe it to be that way...

[Overaged]

A lot of people fail to implement all of the "fringe benefits" of membership in family (e.g., trusts, wills,life insurance benefits, regular get-togethers); companies (e.g., 401k's, insurance, Flexible Spending Accounts, vacation time), club membership (e.g., golf, tennis, swimming); or U.S. citizenship (e.g., Medicaid, Worker's Comp, Unemployment Insurance). It may lower their quality of life; but it doesn't usually kick them out of the family, company, club, or country. Should I expect any less from a loving Father? Once I've accepted Jesus an my Lord and Savior, confessed my sinfulness, and I'm adopted into the Family, should failure on my part (due to stupidity or stubbornness) to perfectly and consistently implement some of the family benefits get me kicked out of the Family? If His grace isn't the solely sufficient pre-requisite to adoption - if receiving grace is in any way contingent upon upon my works- it ceases to be grace (unmerited and undeserved favor); and my salvation is still based on the Law; not grace. I don't think one can mix the two. It's either all about grace or all about works, baby! At least I believe it to be that way...

[skyblue888]

To my knowledge, nobody here ever said that we could equal the Pattern.

sky

[skyblue888]

About repentance, That has already been covered.

"Some seem to fell that they must be on probation and must prove to the Lord that they are reformed before they can claim the blessing. But these dear souls may claim the blessing even now. They must have His grace, the Spirit of Christ, or they cannot form a Christian character. Jesus loves to have us come to Him just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent." F.W.38.

What is the blessing that we may claim even now through the merits of Jesus, if we are hungering and thirsting for righteousness?

His grace, the Spirit of Christ. This is the blessing we are to claim on account of the merits of Jesus.

Note that His grace, the Spirit of Christ, is given so that we may form a Christlike character.

"He (the sinner) need not wait until he has made a suitable repentance before he may take hold upon Christ's rigthteousness." Ibid,64.

sky

[Woody]

Things never change. This is the same old same old stuff that Ellen White had to deal with in her time. IT's a sign of the end. This is the greatest tool of the Devil in the end times.

[Overaged]

About repentance, That has already been covered. sky

There is actually a lot to say about repentance. I felt that the quote I supplied was very pertinent to the main points re JoeMo's post.

For detailed study on the subject, as it pertains to our character development and our standing before God try here

"Is repentance to be made an obstacle between the sinner and the Saviour?" (SC, pg 26) is an essential question for a thread like this.

[Overaged]

Things never change. This is the same old same old stuff that Ellen White had to deal with in her time. IT's a sign of the end. This is the greatest tool of the Devil in the end times.

I thought "drums in the church" was a sign of the end Woody?

[Woody]

Quote:

I thought "drums in the church" was a sign of the end Woody?

A good sign perhaps. They help promote the Gospel - so they are fine in my book.

[Overaged]

lol

[JoeMo]

Love the comments here. Great quote, OA. I'm not a huge EGW fan, but I loved that quote.

You're right Woody, some things never change. But the good news of salvation through the grace of Jesus never get's old! If it's a sign of the end and it brings some people to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (See Phil. 2:11-13), I'm still willing to talk about it. It's my favorite subject!

[Woody]

Love the comments here. Great quote, OA. I'm not a huge EGW fan, but I loved that quote.

You're right Woody, some things never change. But the good news of salvation through the grace of Jesus never get's old! If it's a sign of the end and it brings some people to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (See Phil. 2:11-13), I'm still willing to talk about it. It's my favorite subject!

[Overaged]

Love the comments here. Great quote, OA. I'm not a huge EGW fan, but I loved that quote.

(See Phil. 2:11-13), I'm still willing to talk about it. It's my favorite subject!

My apologies for using EGW, if you would rather use scripture. I did think the quote made a good scriptural point, and glad you found that too.

I am also glad you are willing to talk about this wonderful pasage in Phil 2. It is also one of my favorites...looking forward to more.