A Must For Every Christian

[skyblue888]

There is no way I could ever give my books away since they are all marked and underlined with references as a result of reading and studying over the years. I don't know how you could give yours away even to your family. I have never used a cd rom not even for Mrs. White's writings.

sky

[Overaged]

I have both the cd and most of the books. I really enjoy both. I probably use the cd more often, but it is a treat to go through the books and see all the notes and underlinings I have made over 22 years

[skyblue888]

Didn't know you were a scholar, Over.

[Overaged]

Didn't know you were a scholar, Over.

lol, I am no scholar!! But to me, all the books are a personal spiritual journey, because of the notes, cross references, etc. The cd is because I am getting lazy in my old age and it is a little quicker...

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Didn't know you were a scholar, Over.

lol, I am no scholar!! But to me, all the books are a personal spiritual journey, because of the notes, cross references, etc. The cd is because I am getting lazy in my old age and it is a little quicker...

fair enough

[Gibs]

We need all the strength and faith in Jesus Christ we can gather. I come across a few paragraphs from EGW that should help all of us who see this, Please read carefully and thoughtfully,

"Many are deceiving themselves by thinking that the character will be transformed at the coming of Christ, but there will be no conversion of heart at His appearing. Our defects of character must here be repented of, and through the grace of Christ we must overcome them while probation shall last. This is the place for fitting up for the family above. {AG 243.5}

Probation is almost ended. . . . Get ready! get ready! Work while the day lasts, for the night cometh when no man can work. {AG 243.6}

Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Revelation 22:12. {AG 244.1}

In His divine arrangement, through His unmerited favor, the Lord has ordained that good works shall be rewarded. We are accepted through Christ's merit alone; and the acts of mercy, the deeds of charity, which we perform, are the fruits of faith; and they become a blessing to us; for men are to be rewarded according to their works. It is the fragrance of the merit of Christ that makes our good works acceptable to God, and it is grace that enables us to do the works for which He rewards us. Our works in and of themselves have no merit. . . . We deserve no thanks from God. We have only done what it was our duty to do, and our works could not have been performed in the strength of our own sinful natures. {AG 244.2}

We need . . . to bring the light and grace of Christ into all our works. We need to take hold of Christ and to retain our hold of Him until we know that the power of His transforming grace is manifested in us. We must have faith in Christ if we would reflect the divine character. . . . Faith in the Word of God and in the power of Christ to transform the life will enable the believer to work His works. {AG 244.3}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

"In His divine arrangement, through His unmerited favor, the Lord has ordained that good works shall be rewarded. We are accepted through Christ's merit alone; and the acts of mercy, the deeds of charity, which we perform, are the fruits of faith; and they become a blessing to us; for men are to be rewarded according to their works. It is the fragrance of the merit of Christ that makes our good works acceptable to God, and it is grace that enables us to do the works for which He rewards us. Our works in and of themselves have no merit. . . . We deserve no thanks from God. We have only done what it was our duty to do, and our works could not have been performed in the strength of our own sinful natures." {AG 244.2}

This statement is also found in 5 B.C.1122...

These words, "Our works, in and of themselves have no merit," is followed by this sentence which, for some reason, you skipped: "When we have done all that it is possible for us to do, we are to count ourselves as unprofitable servants." (Luke 17:10) and this is followed by these words: "We deserve no thanks from God."

Again the emphasis in this statement is on the merits of Christ. "We are accepted through Christ's merits alone." It is the grace of the Holy Spirit that enables us to do those works for which God will reward us but these works, in and of themselves, do not act a part in the salvation of the soul or in merit but God accepts them through the merits of Christ.

Thus we read, "Works without faith are dead and faith without works is dead. Works will never save us. It is the merit of Christ that will avail in our behalf." F.W.48.

sky

[Gibs]

Yes Sky, it brings us to the last quote I had posted above,

"We need . . . to bring the light and grace of Christ into all our works. We need to take hold of Christ and to retain our hold of Him until we know that the power of His transforming grace is manifested in us. We must have faith in Christ if we would reflect the divine character. . . . Faith in the Word of God and in the power of Christ to transform the life will enable the believer to work His works. {AG 244.3}

What I want to bring out formost is how it brings us to be the needed overcomer. It is a profound blessing and I find really it is not so much our works but His work in us. Without Him we can do nothing!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

And we take hold of Christ and His righteousness by laying hold by faith of His all-sufficient merits. Then the grace of the Holy Spirit can work in ur both to will and to do God's good pleasure.

Right?

sky :)

[Gibs]

Sky, Right,

Then let us add Paul's admonition,

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Him in us as the Father was in Him is the victory that overcomes as He did, which He reveals is a must.

Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Gentlemen:

Really great jobs of illustrating your points with quotes from scripture and EGW.

As I have stated before, I don't think any of us will be able to "convert" anyone else on this forum with quotes from other people. What is your experience with following the philosophy that you hold? Dr. Gerry has asked for a testimony from anyone who has totally conquered every sin in their lives. That is a valid request. If any of you has the "guts" to testify to that, I, too, would love to hear it. I don't think any of us, no matter what we post on this forum, would say that we have conquered. I sure won't because I haven't. I do believe we have the benefit of the power to do so. But having the power to do so and actually doing it are not the same thing. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. As Gerry asked in another forum, " what are we to overcome"?

I did a short word study on two sets of words - the "curse of sin"; and the "curse of the Law/Covenant".

Without comment, I invite you to look up the following verses:

Deut. 29:21; Dan. 9:11, Deut, 27:26, Josh. 8:34, Neh. 10:29, Dan 9:11, Gal 3:10, Gal 3:13, 2 Cor.3:7-11, Acts 15:10-11 (there are many other verses - this is just a sampling). I won't re-state my opinion. After reading these verses, where do you think the curse comes from - sin or the law? On 2nd thought, I will state my opinion - I think the law/old covenant is the curse - not the sin. If the law had not brought us knowledge of sin, we would never realize what huge sinners we are; and would never come to the end of ourselves and fall at the foot of the cross begging (and receiving) the grace of Christ that forgives our sin and cleanses us from unrighteouseness. Since we have been set free from the curse of the law by the sacrifice of Jesus, should we not also be free from the wages of sin by the power he have through His spirit to overcome by His blood? Even if we fall, we have an Advocate with the Father. That has been my experience. I tried the legal route for 30 years; and it didn't work for me - I could never be "sinless" enough to establish a full relationship with God. But when I concentrated on the relationship rather than the sin, the victory over sin became a possibility. Am I sinless? Absolutely not; but I am more confident of its possibility now that I was when I was trapped in legalism.

Just try it - try reveling in the relationship with Christ rather than groveling in the guilt of sin for a few weeks. See if you don't grow closer to Christ and have more success in fighting sin that you did before. It works for me. If it doesn't work for you, you can always go back to the Law ...

[Gibs]

JoeMo,

It comes down to the point of full dedication as to whether we will surrender all or not. To not surrender all is to not fully want to.

If you fully want to you will fully surrender all and then the victory is yours.

On me or anyone else making a testimony that we have overcame as Jesus did, how many do you think would believe us.

Now me or anyone else is not your Protégé’, example or champion to copy. There is only one you are to put your faith in, Jesus Christ. Now with full and total surrender, He in you and you can walk as He walked. But you will never boast you are the overcomer, He in you with you in your weakness strengthens you, as of yourself you are nothing. But it is true, we can do all things through Him who strengthens us.

We must have faith He is able to do this in us, since He has power to forgive past sins, has He not power to strengthen you to overcome it in your heart and soul so you will be cleaned, a fit one to take in His Kingdom.

The heart and soul must be cleansed in this probationary time as at the close of probation or death we still have sin not conquered we will be raised with the continuing in it as when at COP or at death of this body.

That dear friends is not "legalism" or is it "liberalism" but is the truth of the matter.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[cheddar]

Didn’t you read his post Gibs? He said he tried that route for 30 years and had no success. I tried that route for ten years with the same results and I think many on this forum have had similar experiences. All the effort, good intentions and perfect submission will never produce one good deed! Faith in Christ and not ourselves is the only way.

I agree with JoeMo, if you don’t want to live by faith you can always go back to the Law. But just remember the ten commandments are part of the old covenant not the new. When Satan sinned in heaven, when he was filled with pride and rebelled against his creator he broke God’s law of self-sacrificing love. When Adam sinned in the garden he broke the law of self-sacrificing love. When Abraham listened to his wife instead of God’s promise he too broke the law of self-sacrificing love. All sin is a violation of agape and we only receive agape by faith.

For the first 2000 years of this earth there were no ten commandments. How could those people be judged by a law they never had? Those people didn’t need a commandment to tell them that lying, stealing and murder were wrong. The Holy Spirit impressed on their conscience that those things were wrong just like he does today. The ten commandments are a failed experiment and the excuse that we need them to keep the sabbath is faulty as well because the sabbath was around long before they were.

[Overaged]

JoeMo,

It comes down to the point of full dedication as to whether we will surrender all or not. To not surrender all is to not fully want to.

If you fully want to you will fully surrender all and then the victory is yours.

[Gibs]

Cheddar,

Where to have faith is in He gives you power to do all He asks. If you don't believe that you will not receive it. You can do it as soon as He is in you and it is not hard now at all for you as you are strengthened to do it. Jesus is not going to make you sinless without your cooperation. You must not deny with Him in you it is not only possible but must be.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Gibs - I do have to say - I agree with my dear brother Overaged and the others that have given testimony here against your philosophy.

They have made some great points so I need not add further fluff.

God has asked me to be baptized. It is not that I am prideful to state that I've done as God has required of me. But rather I rejoice in saying I am baptized. It is my witness. For sure I would not want to hide what God has done in my life.

[Overaged]

Gibs - I do have to say - I agree with my dear brother Overaged and the others that have given testimony here against your philosophy.

They have made some great points so I need not add further fluff.

God has asked me to be baptized. It is not that I am prideful to state that I've done as God has required of me. But rather I rejoice in saying I am baptized. It is my witness. For sure I would not want to hide what God has done in my life.

[Overaged]

Cheddar,

Where to have faith is in He gives you power to do all He asks. If you don't believe that you will not receive it. You can do it as soon as He is in you and it is not hard now at all for you as you are strengthened to do it. Jesus is not going to make you sinless without your cooperation. You must not deny with Him in you it is not only possible but must be.

[Gerr]

Are you saved, Gibs?

[Gibs]

OV,

You do not have the many yrs no more to accomplish overcoming as many in the past have had.

What you must surrender is all of your will to do His will and that can be done as soon as you want to. You must want to or it will not happen. Like Jesus prayed, not my will but thine. I will to do thy will and no ifs and ans about it. Jesus as a man surrendered His will and all can. He again is our example.

All need to stop with the excuses and get with the breaking of self, pride and our will and be broken to do the Master's will. To refuse Him that you will be left deficient of His indwelling which you must have.

Woody it is not "my philosopy" as you want to call it but it is the way He has made we all must follow and it isn't just believe and we are all done. What all must believe and have faith in is with His Divine Nature we are more than conquerors.

Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

"Christ in you the hope of Glory".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Didn’t you read his post Gibs? He said he tried that route for 30 years and had no success. I tried that route for ten years with the same results and I think many on this forum have had similar experiences. All the effort, good intentions and perfect submission will never produce one good deed! Faith in Christ and not ourselves is the only way.

Yeah, I tried that also 30+ years ago. Fortunately, it didn't take me very long to see the futility. I just got down on my knees one early morning and just told the Lord that if perfect sinlessness is what He expected me, He would have to write me off.

Quote:

I agree with JoeMo, if you don’t want to live by faith you can always go back to the Law. But just remember the ten commandments are part of the old covenant not the new.

Huh? Strange statement! The 10c are still at the very heart of the new covenant. ‎ESV ‎‎Heb 8:8 For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, ‎‎9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. ‎‎10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Re 11:19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple.

What's enshrined in that ark?

[Woody]

Are you saved, Gibs?

(but I don't expect that we will see an answer on that one coming forth. Yet, I feel that each of us should rightly be able to answer it with certainty.)

[Gerr]

Any of the saints in Heb 11 lost? Any of them reached the state of sinlessness that you are holding out for everyone?

[cheddar]

Re 11:19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple.

What's enshrined in that ark?

The real law which is enshrined in heaven governs both angels and men. Angel’s have no mother or father to honor, they were created by the hand of God. How do angels commit adultery?

The law in heaven is not even written in any our languages. Ellen White made a statement and I don’t know where it is but she said the Law which is in heaven only contains ten words. The ten commandments contain a lot more than ten words.

What I do know for sure is that agape is the foundation of the whole thing so that’s the best understanding of it by far.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Re 11:19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple.

What's enshrined in that ark?

The real law which is enshrined in heaven governs both angels and men. Angel’s have no mother or father to honor, they were created by the hand of God. How do angels commit adultery?

The law in heaven is not even written in any our languages. Ellen White made a statement and I don’t know where it is but she said the Law which is in heaven only contains ten words. The ten commandments contain a lot more than ten words.

What I do know for sure is that agape is the foundation of the whole thing so that’s the best understanding of it by far.

Would you be referrin' to this:

"That holy law, God's righteousness, that amid thunder and flame was proclaimed from Sinai as the guide of life, is now revealed to men as the rule of judgment. The hand opens the tables, and there are seen the precepts of the Decalogue, traced as with a pen of fire. The words are so plain that all can read them. Memory is aroused, the darkness of superstition

and heresy is swept from every mind, and God's ten words, brief, comprehensive, and authoritative, are presented to the view of all the inhabitants of the earth." {DD 48.2}