Columbia Union Special Session

[Woody]

Bravo Bravo Jasd -

(I think) Actually I have no idea if what you are saying is what I agree or not.

But glad you are saying 'something'.

[teresaq]

This thought by Jones comes to mind right now.

0000000

Those who had formed the creed were exalted as the Fathers of Nicaea, and then to the creed was applied the scripture, “Remove not the ancient landmark which thy fathers have set.” 29 From that time forth the words, “Stand by the landmark,” were considered a sufficient watchword to put every Catholic on his guard against the danger of heresy. “From this period we may date the introduction of rigorous articles of belief, which required the submissive assent of the mind to every word and letter of an established creed, and which raised the slightest heresy of opinion into a more fatal offense against God, and a more odious crime in the estimation of man, than the worst moral delinquency or the most flagrant deviation from the spirit of Christianity.”—Milman. 30 {TTR 352.5}

...those who subscribed to the creed, did so against their honest convictions,.... {TTR 353.1}

Yet more than this, this theory proceeds upon the assumption that religious truth and doctrine are subject to the decision of the majority, than which nothing could possibly be farther from the truth. Even though the decision of the Council of Nicaea had been absolutely, and from honest conviction, spontaneously unanimous, it never could rest with the slightest degree of obligation or authority upon any soul, who had not arrived at the same conclusion from honest conviction derived from the free exercise of his own power of thought.

There is no organization, nor tribunal, on earth that has any right to decide for anybody what is the truth upon any religious question.

“The head of every man is Christ.” 1 Corinthians 11:3.

“One is your Master, even Christ.” Matthew 23:8. “Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.... So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.” Romans 14:4, 12. {TTR 353.2}

In the quest for truth every man is free to search, to believe, and to decide for himself alone.

And his assent to any form of belief or doctrine, to be true,

must spring from his own personal conviction that such is the truth.

“The truth itself, forced on man otherwise than by its own inward power, becomes falsehood.”—Neander. 31 And he who suffers anything to be so forced upon him, utters a lie against himself and against God. {TTR 353.3}

The realm of thought is the realm of God. Whosoever would attempt to restrict or coerce the free exercise of the thought of another, usurps the dominion of God, and exercises that of the devil.

... What Constantine and the Council of Nice did, was to open the way and set the wicked precedent for that despotism over thought, .. {TTR 354.1}

A.T.Jones, pioneer of the SDA church.

[Overaged]

What is the name of the book where you got these quotes from?

[Woody]

THanks teresa. Excellent

[teresaq]

I understood and thought it was close to brilliant, as well as entertaining. :)

[Woody]

I understood and thought it was close to brilliant, as well as entertaining.

[Woody]

WO is SO WOnderful to me.

His WOrd is WOnderful. His WOrd is WOnderful.

His WOrd is WOnderful.

WOnderful to me.

[lazarus]

How anyone can say that the Columbia Union and those supporting WO with them are being led by the Holy Spirit in this is way beyond me. I have no idea how they can say this in verity.

Those who disagree with the decision will of course say the Spirit is not leading. As someone who sat through the whole meeting and has attended several Union and Conference sessions I can honestly say there was a not a spirit of rancor, rebellion, arrogance in the place.

There was as serious commitment on everyone's part, IMHO, to doing what was right. Delegates listened to Wilson with respect and full attention. The presence of the Spirit is often indicated by the actions and attitudes of the people. The fruits of the Spirit were demonstrated.

[CyberGuy]

Columbia Union Constituents Overwhelmingly Affirm Women Pastors Through Ordination

Story by Taashi Rowe; photos by Al Peasley

Silver Spring, Md.—After two hours of presentations from multiple levels of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, as well as 90 minutes of discussion, delegates to the Columbia Union Conference Special Constituency Meeting today voted an historic motion—“That the Columbia Union Conference authorize ordination to the gospel ministry without regard to gender.”

According to a statement released by the union it means that the union executive committee will no longer deny requests from conferences to ordain proven female ministers to the gospel ministry but that their calling will be fully recognized on par with their male counterparts.

Using secret ballots, delegates from the eight conferences within the union’s Mid-Atlantic United States territory voted 4 to 1 in favor of the motion. The actual vote was 209 in favor and 51 opposed, with nine abstentions.

[olger]

I think everyone here already knows this -- but thanks.

G

[CyberGuy]

Two weeks from tomorrow Pacific Union votes on the same issue.

[teresaq]

Columbia Union Constituents Overwhelmingly Affirm Women Pastors Through Ordination

Story by Taashi Rowe; photos by Al Peasley

Silver Spring, Md.—After two hours of presentations from multiple levels of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, as well as 90 minutes of discussion, delegates to the Columbia Union Conference Special Constituency Meeting today voted an historic motion—“That the Columbia Union Conference authorize ordination to the gospel ministry without regard to gender.”

According to a statement released by the union it means that the union executive committee will no longer deny requests from conferences to ordain proven female ministers to the gospel ministry but that their calling will be fully recognized on par with their male counterparts.

Using secret ballots, delegates from the eight conferences within the union’s Mid-Atlantic United States territory voted 4 to 1 in favor of the motion. The actual vote was 209 in favor and 51 opposed, with nine abstentions.

Wasn't the "historic" move made by the Northern German Union already? Is the egotism of America showing?

I ask that since elsewhere an Australian keeps reminding us Americans that Germany did it first when we make certain comments.

[Woody]

Two weeks from tomorrow Pacific Union votes on the same issue.

Yes. Praise God. Let us pray that they also search and find the Biblical Truth of this matter.

[Tom Wetmore]

I think the context is that the vote was historic for the Columbia Union.

To be historically correct on this matter for the whole church one would need to report the original resolution by the General Conference in Session in 1881 clearly affirming that women could be ordained to the gospel ministry.

[teresaq]

[Woody]

There has been new proof surfaced recently that even the EG White Estate has recognized that the work of Ellen White was that of a Minister.

“The time came however, when it was recognized that her work (Ellen White) was equal to that of a minister, and she was paid a salary as a minister of the gospel.” Arthur L. White The Ellen G. White Estate

[Daryl]

Did Ellen White ever pastor a church? I don't think so!!!!!

[CoAspen]

???????????

And that statement means what?

[teresaq]

Did Ellen White ever pastor a church? I don't think so!!!!!

No, she didn't pastor any single church, she pastored (shepherded) the whole church til her dying day. Your point?

Perhaps you wouldn't mind me asking what you think a pastor is and does?

[Stan]

Did Ellen White ever pastor a church? I don't think so!!!!!

There are a lot of ordained people that have never Pastored a Church...

Several Treasurers have been ordained over the years.. Some SDACC Presidents had never been ordained.. several conference presidents.... none of who ever Pastored a Church.

[Woody]

Ellen White gave herself the title of pastor which pastors were called at her time in history. Messenger. Seems pretty straight forward to me. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - It's a duck.

[Tom Wetmore]

Did Ellen White ever pastor a church? I don't think so!!!!!

Did James White ever pastor a church? Did Uriah Smith? How many ordained men never pastored a church? Back then or even now?

[olger]

I think Daryl's point was that Ellen's prophetic ministry is often seized upon by those lobbying for Women Ordination.

Rejoice always,

oG

[Tom Wetmore]

For a very good reason. God called a woman to that most significant role of spiritual leadership in the church. Why are some now trying to pretend that the call to pastoral ministry is somehow higher or more important than prophetic ministry so that it is only open to a certain class of people?

"God desires all to realize that they must be careful how they strive to control those who are doing his work. No one is to seek to bind the hands of God's instrumentalities. God has given to every man his work, and if his children will consecrate themselves to him, no one has a right to specify who is to work, or who is not to work. Let God work through whomsoever he will." {RH, March 29, 1898 par. 13}

[monty]

Are we forgetting before God called Ellen White he called men?