Righteousness by faith explained

[jamesonofthunder]

To elaborate on what true righteousness by faith is...

Peter claimed to have faith, but denied His own love, His Brother and creator Jesus. It was not until after Jesus had died and Peter was without support that He had to rely on the merits of Jesus to sustain his life. Where was Peter led during this time of turmoil in his life? To Gethsemane...

From Desire of Ages;

...He pressed on in solitude and darkness, he knew not and cared not whither. At last he found himself in Gethsemane. The scene of a few hours before came vividly to his mind. The suffering face of his Lord, stained with bloody sweat and convulsed with anguish, rose before him. He remembered with bitter remorse that Jesus had wept and agonized in prayer alone, while those who should have united with Him in that trying hour were sleeping. He remembered His solemn charge, “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation.” Matthew 26:41. He witnessed again the scene in the judgment hall. It was torture to his bleeding heart to know that he had added the heaviest burden to the Saviour’s humiliation and grief. On the very spot where Jesus had poured out His soul in agony to His Father, Peter fell upon his face, and wished that he might die. {DA 713.3}

This is why Jesus had to go away; So we could experience what true faith is. It is not a substance we have within ourselves, but faith is the essence of Jesus, and His whole being longed to give us His faith.

Although it is a result of His faith, It is not our faith in Jesus that sustains us, our hope and confidence in Him should never be confused with His true faith.

Righteousness by faith is the faith that Jesus had for the Father to keep His word to save us. He did not care about His own life more than ours, and this is grace. The faith He had in the perfect word of His Father is the faith that saves us. So true faith is literally the Faith OF Jesus in the word of His Father.

He gives us a glimpse into His torment so we can know that we are saved because He died the 2nd death that we deserve. This is the true righteousness by faith message.

Here is the perfect message of how to receive faith...

Hebrews 10:15-25;

And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them

after those days, declares the Lord:

I will put my laws on their hearts,

and write them on their minds,”

17 then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

Do you come to church thinking you have something to offer? This is not faith. Jesus is the Faithful one. The truly faithful have confidence in His full assurance of faithfulness.

Come knowing you have nothing, seeking His grace. Seek the divine spectacle of seeing Him drink the cup of the new and everlasting covenant for you, which He drank in Gethsemane. This is how to have our consciences sprinkled with the pure water.

THEN come to the cross and see it finished.

Imagine being in a fire... You are cut off from escape with no hope.

Suddenly you see a fireman coming through the flames to save you.

Is it your faith or his that saved you? Once he is there we can have hope and confidence that his efforts will save us, but it is his faith that he has been prepared to save you that sustains the effort.

This poorly illustrates what God shared with me how His Son has faith to save us.

Father our hope is for you to strengthen our confidence in your Son's Faith.

This is the 1888 message, our righteousness by His faith.

[skyblue888]

Righteousness is right doing. It is God's doing in and through us for "it is God who works in us both to will and to do His good pleasure." Phil.2:13.

It is Christ's working in and through us by the Holy Spirit who is His Representative.

This right doing from Christ through the Holy Spirit in and through us results in obedience to the law of God. It is truly "the obedience of faith" or "the obedience of Christ." Rom.16:26; 2 Cor.10:5.

Therefore righteousness is love for "love is the fulfillment of the law." Rom.13:10. And "The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us." Rom.5:5.

This is "the faith that works (the works of God) by love." Gal.5:6.

And that love of God is diffused through our whole being the moment we come to Christ just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the merits of His shed blood, trusting wholly in the all-sufficient merits of His infinite sacrifice. (Rom.3:25)

This is feeding upon the Word proceeding out of the mouth of God (Matt.4:4) and thus it becomes Spirit and life to us.

Thus, to look to Christ and to accept His merits which it is our privilege to claim, in order to bring His righteousness (love) into the life, (and His righteousness accomplishes everything) is our life business.

sky :)

[Samie]

He gives us a glimpse into His torment so we can know that we are saved because He died the 2nd death that we deserve. This is the true righteousness by faith message.

Although the rest of your post are quite commendable, the portion quoted above is NOT in accord with Scriptures. Why?

Because...

1. The 2nd death is death in the lake of fire(Rev 21:8), not death on the cross.

2. Christ's death is ransom for all (1 Tim 2:5,6), no one excluded nor left out. If that death ransomed all from the 2nd death, then no one need suffer the 2nd death anymore.

Instead, the death of the Savior is the ransom that paid the penalty for all sins - past, present, future. That death forgave all descendants of Adam & Eve from all sins (Col 2:13), ratified the writing down of our names in the book of life since the foundation of the world. This is the 1st of the 3 dimensions of the gospel.

[cheddar]

This is the 1888 message, our righteousness by His faith.

Where? I missed it.

Have you ever studied the 1888 message? There are many unique truths to that message:

1) the two covenants - the old covenant is man’s promise to God that he will be good which always leads to failure and bondage while the new covenant is God’s promise to man that he will make us righteous. Man’s response is to believe the promise.

2) the two Adams – the 1st Adam was a corporate man and because of his sin all men are born under the curse and condemnation of sin while the 2nd Adam (Jesus Christ) was also a corporate man and because of his righteous life, all men have been given the gift of salvation. Man’s response is to believe the good news.

3) God’s agape love – the demonstration of the love of God in the person of Jesus Christ is so powerful that it will draw all men to the foot of the cross. The only reason why anyone will ever be lost is because they persistently and deliberately resist the drawing of Christ’s love thru the Holy Spirit.

Do you know what Paul, Martin Luther and Jones and Waggoner all had in common? They all preached against the ten commandments. The 7th day sabbath does not need the 4th commandment to prop it up. Under the new covenant the sabbath is the sign or seal of righteousness by faith and the other nine commandments have been replaced by God’s agape love. A real sabbath keeper is someone who believes in Christ for salvation and is resting in his perfect and completed work. Not someone who attends potlucks on Saturday and is trusting in Ellen White for salvation.

[Samie]

...

Do you know what Paul, Martin Luther and Jones and Waggoner all had in common? They all preached against the ten commandments...

[Gerr]

Do you know what Paul, Martin Luther and Jones and Waggoner all had in common? They all preached against the ten commandments.

If you mean preached against the 10c as the way to salvation, then I agree with you. But if you think they preached against obedience to the 10c, then I suggest you show where they did that.

Quote:

The 7th day sabbath does not need the 4th commandment to prop it up. Under the new covenant the sabbath is the sign or seal of righteousness by faith and the other nine commandments have been replaced by God’s agape love. A real sabbath keeper is someone who believes in Christ for salvation and is resting in his perfect and completed work. Not someone who attends potlucks on Saturday and is trusting in Ellen White for salvation.

I'd like to know who those people are who are trusting in EGW for salvation.

[John317]

Do you know what Paul, Martin Luther and Jones and Waggoner all had in common? They all preached against the ten commandments.

You must be kidding when it comes to Paul and Waggoner and Jones. They all did preach against the idea that people can earn salvation by keeping any law, including the Ten commandments. In Romans 6: 1-2, and 15, and in other places, Paul is certainly NOT preaching against the Ten Commandments. Sin is defined as breaking God's moral law, and Paul clearly says that the purpose of the Holy Spirit is to enpower us to obey God's will. God's will for us is revealed in His Ten Commandment law. As for Jones and Waggoner (who agreed with Ellen White on the 1888 Message), a comparison of the 1888 Materials and the books by Jone & Waggoner from th 1890s shows that they put the Ten Commandments in the right perspective: Genuine righteousness by faith is manifested in the obedience to all the moral law of God. Compare Christ and His Righteousness by E.J. Waggoner, pages 46 to 55, and the whole of A. G. Daniells' book, Christ Our Righteousness.

[cheddar]

You must be kidding when it comes to Paul and Waggoner and Jones. They all did preach against the idea that people can earn salvation by keeping any law, including the Ten commandments. In Romans 6: 1-2, and 15, and in other places, Paul is certainly NOT preaching against the Ten Commandments. Sin is defined as breaking God's moral law, and Paul clearly says that the purpose of the Holy Spirit is to enpower us to obey God's will. God's will for us is revealed in His Ten Commandment law. As for Jones and Waggoner (who agreed with Ellen White on the 1888 Message), a comparison of the 1888 Materials and the books by Jone & Waggoner from th 1890s shows that they put the Ten Commandments in the right perspective: Genuine righteousness by faith is manifested in the obedience to all the moral law of God. Compare Christ and His Righteousness by E.J. Waggoner, pages 46 to 55, and the whole of A. G. Daniells' book, Christ Our Righteousness.

There's no 'thou shalt not' in agape love.

Why don't you read the book of Galatians and see what Paul says about the Law.

You can't be under the old covenant and the new covenant at the same time. It's impossible.

[skyblue888]

Received as proceeding out of the mouth of God every "Thou shalt not" is a promise, a most positive promise of its own fulfillment for in every command of God, proceeding out of His mouth, is the power, the very life of God by which it is to be fulfilled.

However, if received as the mere letter of the law, written with ink or engraved on stones, it cannot impart life. It can only convince of sin, of our inability to obey.

Paul in Galatians is speaking of the letter of the law.

But received from God's mouth that same law is Spirit and Life. Then it is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Romans 8:2.

sky

[skyblue888]

Ellen White understood this perfectly:

Speaking of the Ten Commandments, as spoken by Christ on Sinai, she writes:

"There is not a negative in that law, although it may appear thus." 1 B.C.1105.

She adds, "That law of ten precepts... is the voice of God from Heaven speaking to the soul in promise." ibid

Every command proceeding out of the mouth of God is a promise of more abundant life to us as we rest in the merits of Christ for our acceptance with God. (Matt.4:4; Prov.4:20-22)

Thus the Psalmist exclaimed, "The law of Your mouth is better to me than thousands of gold and silver." Psalm 119:72.

sky

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

You must be kidding when it comes to Paul and Waggoner and Jones. They all did preach against the idea that people can earn salvation by keeping any law, including the Ten commandments. In Romans 6: 1-2, and 15, and in other places, Paul is certainly NOT preaching against the Ten Commandments. Sin is defined as breaking God's moral law, and Paul clearly says that the purpose of the Holy Spirit is to enpower us to obey God's will. God's will for us is revealed in His Ten Commandment law. As for Jones and Waggoner (who agreed with Ellen White on the 1888 Message), a comparison of the 1888 Materials and the books by Jone & Waggoner from th 1890s shows that they put the Ten Commandments in the right perspective: Genuine righteousness by faith is manifested in the obedience to all the moral law of God. Compare Christ and His Righteousness by E.J. Waggoner, pages 46 to 55, and the whole of A. G. Daniells' book, Christ Our Righteousness.

There's no 'thou shalt not' in agape love.

Why don't you read the book of Galatians and see what Paul says about the Law.

You can't be under the old covenant and the new covenant at the same time. It's impossible.

Are you serious, Chedder? Is this your answer: "read the book of Galatians" and there's no "thou shalt not" in agape love? First of all, I've read and re-read Galatians dozens of times and translated it from the original Greek. Not saying I know everything about Galatians, but it should be obvious that the answer is not for me to read Galatians. That would be like my telling you to read Romans and Galatians. Would that work? :-)

You're right, of course, that we can't be under the old covenant and the new covenant at the same time. You seem to be unaware that the Ten Commandments are the legal basis of both covenants. Those commandments are simply written in two different ways and places under the two different agreements. Under the Old, they are written on tables of stone merely, whereas under the New, they are written on human hearts by the Holy Spirit.

What I would like you to do is point out specific verses in the book of Galatians which make the point you're trying to say here. If you are saying that love fulfills the law, I would say that is true, but this doesn't mean agape love has no "thou shalt not." Agape love says, "If you love me, you will keep My commandments."

Yes, there is "thou shalt not" in agape love. God's agape love for Adam led Him to tell Adam, "Thou shalt not eat of the tree of knowledge in the midst of the garden." Agape love says, "Thou shalt not have other gods before Me, for I am a jealous God." If we truly love God, we won't have other gods before us, and if we truly love Christ, we'll obey His commands. There are some "thou shalt nots" among His commands.

[Gerr]

There's no 'thou shalt not' in agape love.

Why don't you read the book of Galatians and see what Paul says about the Law.

You can't be under the old covenant and the new covenant at the same time. It's impossible.

Would agape love do any of these?

ESV Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[cheddar]

Would agape love do any of these?

ESV Ga 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Well, let's see God is a jealous God and his name is jealous. He had terrible fits of anger in the OT. He was in constant rivalry with the pagan gods that the Israelites worshipped. And the bible says that he loved Jacob and hated Esau.

This is such a one dimensional picture of christian character. Jesus drank real wine for God's sake.

[cheddar]

Are you serious, Chedder? Is this your answer: "read the book of Galatians" and there's no "thou shalt not" in agape love? First of all, I've read and re-read Galatians dozens of times and translated it from the original Greek. Not saying I know everything about Galatians, but it should be obvious that the answer is not for me to read Galatians. That would be like my telling you to read Romans and Galatians. Would that work? :-)

You're right, of course, that we can't be under the old covenant and the new covenant at the same time. You seem to be unaware that the Ten Commandments are the legal basis of both covenants. Those commandments are simply written in two different ways and places under the two different agreements. Under the Old, they are written on tables of stone merely, whereas under the New, they are written on human hearts by the Holy Spirit.

What I would like you to do is point out specific verses in the book of Galatians which make the point you're trying to say here. If you are saying that love fulfills the law, I would say that is true, but this doesn't mean agape love has no "thou shalt not." Agape love says, "If you love me, you will keep My commandments."

Yes, there is "thou shalt not" in agape love. God's agape love for Adam led Him to tell Adam, "Thou shalt not eat of the tree of knowledge in the midst of the garden." Agape love says, "Thou shalt not have other gods before Me, for I am a jealous God." If we truly love God, we won't have other gods before us, and if we truly love Christ, we'll obey His commands. There are some "thou shalt nots" among His commands.

This is the same spirit that rejected the 1888 message over a hundred years ago and the same spirit that still rejects it today.

The ten commandments are a curse and of all people in this world who should know that it should be Seventh day adventists. If they haven’t figured that out by now it’s not going to happen.

Anyone who says that Paul defended the Law after reading his epistles is a blind guide leading the blind. Paul was the biggest legalist of all and he knew intimately the damage and misery that type of religious experience causes. He rejected legalism and accepted the gospel of Christ completely and never looked back.

Character building is young man’s game and people make ship wreck of their faith every single day. Faith is a very powerful thing and we only get one chance to build it in the likeness of Christ. If we ruin our faith in this life even the infinite power of God cannot repair it.

[skyblue888]

Cheddar, the ten commandments will be a curse to you if you try to obey them in your own strength. But when you receive that same law of ten commandments as the Voice of Him whose Word can renew the soul unto everlasting life, then that law becomes to you "the law of the greatest love that can be presented to man." 1 B.C.1105. Then every precept of that law becomes a promise to you, a promise of the Spirit by which it is to be fulfilled, every jot and tittle of it, for the Spirit fills up the measure of the law's requirements.

The 1888 message invited the people to lay right hold upon the merits of a crucified and risen Savior that they might hear the Voice of God speaking to them in the ten commandments, the voice of Him whose word can renew the soul unto everlasting life.

"All the words of My mouth are with righteousness." Prov.8:8.

"All Your commandments (proceeding out of His mouth) are righteousness." Psalm 119:172.

His righteousness is made manifest in obedience.

"Receive, I pray Thee, the law from His mouth," (Job 22:22) as opposed to receiving it as merely written or engraved on stones.

sky

[skyblue888]

In the beginning God said, "Let there be light!" What happened? "And there was light." There was no time between the speaking of the Word and the thing done. The Voice of God produced that which was spoken. That is creation.

Is not redemption creation all over again?

On account of the all-sufficient merits of a crucified and risen Saviour the same Voice that called the light out of darkness and it was so, now calls us to love God supremely and our neighbors as ourselves.

What say you?

sky

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Would agape love do any of these?

ESV Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Well, let's see God is a jealous God and his name is jealous. He had terrible fits of anger in the OT. He was in constant rivalry with the pagan gods that the Israelites worshipped. And the bible says that he loved Jacob and hated Esau.

This is such a one dimensional picture of christian character. Jesus drank real wine for God's sake.

Is that your answer? Please, note, it was a quote from the book you suggested to be read.

[Gerr]

Quote:

The ten commandments are a curse and of all people in this world who should know that it should be Seventh day adventists. If they haven’t figured that out by now it’s not going to happen.

Ten Commandments are a curse? What kind of God do we have that would give a curse to people?

‎ESV ‎‎Ps 119:97 Oh how I love your law! It is my meditation all the day. ‎‎98 Your commandment makes me wiser than my enemies, for it is ever with me.

‎‎Ps 119:1 Blessed are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the law of the LORD!

‎‎2 Blessed are those who keep his testimonies, who seek him with their whole heart,

[cheddar]

Is that your answer? Please, note, it was a quote from the book you suggested to be read.

I suggested reading Galatians to find Paul’s position on the Law not on christian character or the character if God.

Paul along with most of the NT authors were way too conservative for my taste.

If the ten commandments are so binding and immutable why did God command the Israelites into the promised land to murder the canaanites and steal their possessions? Sounds like God was commanding his own people to break his own law!

Another reason why agape is better at explaining God’s character than the decalogue.

[skyblue888]

Cheddar, in the Old Testament the Israelites lived under a theocracy. That meant the God ruled not only in religious matters but in civil as well. If they had allowed God to have His way in war, they would never have had to fight their enemies with the sword. But since they had chosen to live by the sword God did not abandon them but gave them instructions accordingly.

When Christ walked among them He told them that those who live by the sword shall perish by the sword and many of them did perish by the sword especially at the hand of the Roman armies in A.D.70.

Does that help?

sky

[cheddar]

Does that help?

sky

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

God commanded them to break his own law which proves that for every rule there is always an exception to the rule. As Jesus pointed out time and again with the pharisees. He justified David for stealing when he was hungry and the disciples when they broke the sabbath.

This is why the old covenant was faulty and replaced by the new or everlasting covenant. When agape reigns in the heart it will make all of our thoughts, words and actions acceptable. Agape can handle the grey areas of life where rigid rules can only condemn.

[12tribes]

Steps to Christ by EGW was written just after 1888 and is an answer to righteousness by faith. It tells what is righteousness by faith is except put much better and easier to understand than the 1888 message.

[Samie]

Misunderstanding of the Gospel as it is in Scriptures results in conflicting views about the role of Faith and the Law of God in the life of an individual.

Quote:

1 Timothy 1:8-11

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

As I had explained for quite a number of times in this forum, the everlasting Gospel has 3 dimensions. The first dimension is God's work FOR man where through Christ, He fashioned humanity into the body of His Son and forgave us all sins, whether we know it or not, acknowledge it or not, believe in it or not. What the Immortal had done cannot by any mortal be undone.

In the 2nd dimension, God dynamically writes His laws into a person's heart and mind. These laws are beacons of truth for rightful, godly living, since we are part of the body of His Son. It is the basis from which we can determine whether we are overcomers or not because only overcomers will not be detached from His body and deleted from the book of life.

In the 3rd dimension, man is rewarded in accordance with what he has done: eternal life for overcomers; wrath of God for all others.

It is in the 2nd dimension where all men lived under. Being attached to His body, the love, knowledge and strength we need to overcome, all derive from Him Who is the Head. Overcomers are those who when faced with the opportunity to commit sin refuses to commit sin and do good instead. Not our believing in Christ, nor our obedience to the law that can make us part of His body because even before we believed or obeyed (acts we do in the 2nd dimension), we were already made part of His body in the 1st dimension. This is why sins currently committed are not imputed against us since these had all been forgiven on the cross. Sin cannot overpower us because we are part of the body of Christ. Until we breathe our last, we remain part of His body. It is at death where judgment is meted whether or not a name is blotted from the book of life and detached from the body of Christ. The Savior assures all overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life. The life of a true believer is the life of an overcomer. Since without faith it is impossible to please God and it takes faith to believe what God has done, is doing, and what He will still do for man, He gives faith to everyone.

Understanding the gospel in its 3 dimensions exposes the real functions of faith and law in the life of an individual.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Is that your answer? Please, note, it was a quote from the book you suggested to be read.

I suggested reading Galatians to find Paul’s position on the Law not on christian character or the character if God.

Paul along with most of the NT authors were way too conservative for my taste.

Are God's commands just a matter of taste?

Quote:

If the ten commandments are so binding and immutable why did God command the Israelites into the promised land to murder the canaanites and steal their possessions? Sounds like God was commanding his own people to break his own law!

Did God commit murder when He wiped out the antediluvians? Will He commit murder when He wipes out the wicked at the final cleansing of the universe from sin?

Quote:

Another reason why agape is better at explaining God’s character than the decalogue.

You said that there are no don'ts in agape. Would agape steal? Murder? Cheat?

[cheddar]

Did God commit murder when He wiped out the antediluvians? Will He commit murder when He wipes out the wicked at the final cleansing of the universe from sin?

The case in point is not God doing the killing. I agree that God is above his own Law and can do whatever he wants.

I want to know why it's sin to break the law any other time but when God commands it to be broken it can be done with impunity.