Atonement - when?

[JoeMo]

Gibs and Sky,

Maybe if you stuck to what scripture says and not rely so heavily on EGW, this would not be so confusing for you. Regardless of what EGW says, Hebrews makes it clear that Jesus entered the Most Holy Place upon His ascencion into heaven. Revelation makes it clear that Jesus was slain before the creation of the world. Hebrews also makes it clear that Jesus is the veil; and, through Him, we also have access to the Most Holy Place. Wherever God is seated on His throne, that is the Most Holy Place; and we have access to it now when we boldly approach the throne of grace in our time of need. The NT makes it clear that our sins are already atoned for; that we have been (past tense) reconciled with God through Christ. Nothing EGW says can negate what is clearly stated in God's Word. She even says to disregard anything in her writings that does not conform to scripture; and her message about 1844 definitely does not conform to scripture.

[skyblue888]

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Samie

______

This passage of Scripture is not to be taken to mean that while on earth He was that Priest but that by being made like unto us, He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest when He would begin His priesthood after His ascension in the Holy apartment first and then in the second when the time would come to begin the final atonement.

sky

[skyblue888]

Gibs and Sky,

Maybe if you stuck to what scripture says and not rely so heavily on EGW, this would not be so confusing for you. Regardless of what EGW says, Hebrews makes it clear that Jesus entered the Most Holy Place upon His ascencion into heaven. Revelation makes it clear that Jesus was slain before the creation of the world. Hebrews also makes it clear that Jesus is the veil; and, through Him, we also have access to the Most Holy Place. Wherever God is seated on His throne, that is the Most Holy Place; and we have access to it now when we boldly approach the throne of grace in our time of need. The NT makes it clear that our sins are already atoned for; that we have been (past tense) reconciled with God through Christ. Nothing EGW says can negate what is clearly stated in God's Word. She even says to disregard anything in her writings that does not conform to scripture; and her message about 1844 definitely does not conform to scripture.

Wow! Thank you brother for making your position as clear as crystal.

sky

[Samie]

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Samie

______

This passage of Scripture is not to be taken to mean that while on earth He was that Priest but that by being made like unto us, He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest when He would begin His priesthood after His ascension in the Holy apartment first and then in the second when the time would come to begin the final atonement.

sky

Oh, come on sky, don't make things too difficult for you. First you said, Christ was not a Priest on earth; now you say He was neither a High Priest.

Scriptures tell us only priests could offer sin offerings, so why was Christ able to offer His own self as offering for sin if, as you said, He was neither priest nor High Priest while on earth?

[skyblue888]

He was the victim, not the Priest.

"While on earth He should not be a Priest." Heb.8:4.

"The intercession of Christ in our behalf is that of presenting His divine merits in the offering of Himself to the Father as our Substitute and Surety, for He ascended up on High to make atonement for our transgressions." F.W.105.

After His resurrection, He ascended up on High to present to the Father the merits of His offering (sacrifice) as our Substitute and Surety. He waited for the Father to accept His offering and then He began His Priesthood in the first apartment of the sanctuary above by pleading the merits of that sacrifice in behalf of sinners.

sky

[Samie]

He was the victim, not the Priest.

"While on earth He should not be a Priest." Heb.8:4.

"The intercession of Christ in our behalf is that of presenting His divine merits in the offering of Himself to the Father as our Substitute and Surety, for He ascended up on High to make atonement for our transgressions." F.W.105.

After His resurrection, He ascended up on High to present to the Father the merits of His offering (sacrifice) as our Substitute and Surety. He waited for the Father to accept His offering and then He began His Priesthood in the first apartment of the sanctuary above by pleading the merits of that sacrifice in behalf of sinners.

sky

You have still to answer my question in my previous post, sky.

[skyblue888]

Nothing more needs be added to this verse: "While on earth He should not be a Priest." Heb.8:4.

sky

[skyblue888]

When we study the type in the Old Testament we are studying the Scriptures and the type reveals that the antitypical service, which would be the reality, in the sanctuary above, would have two apartments in which Christ would minister.

So for those who wish to stick to the Bible and the Bible alone, let them study the type in the Old Testatment as Hebrews 8:5 clearly indicates that they may better understand the antitypical service.

sky

[JoeMo]

You're welcome!

[Samie]

When we study the type in the Old Testament we are studying the Scriptures and the type reveals that the antitypical service, which would be the reality, in the sanctuary above, would have two apartments in which Christ would minister.

So for those who wish to stick to the Bible and the Bible alone, let them study the type in the Old Testatment as Hebrews 8:5 clearly indicates that they may better understand the antitypical serive.

sky

[Samie]

Nothing more needs be added to this verse: "While on earth He should not be a Priest." Heb.8:4.

sky

No one's adding. Of course He was not Priest on earth, because Scriptures say, on earth He was High Priest, archiereus, not just Priest, hiereus.

[skyblue888]

The first word "Who" is plural form in Greek, and refers to the priests in v4, not to Christ. It was the Priests who need to observe the type and shadow, not Christ.

Samie

_________

Of course the priests of the earthly sanctuary observed the type, not Christ.

The sanctuary above is not a shadow but the reality.

The type had two apartments and that means the antitype has two which is the reality.

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Nothing more needs be added to this verse: "While on earth He should not be a Priest." Heb.8:4.

sky

No one's adding. Of course He was not Priest on earth, because Scriptures say, on earth He was High Priest, archiereus, not just Priest, hiereus.

That is your private interpretation. Of course you would say something like this in order to fit your private interpretation.

If He should not be a Priest on earth He should not be a High Priest either.

Every true Bible student knows that Christ did not begin His Priesthood in the first apartment of the sanctuary above until His sacrifice was accepted of the Father.

sky

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

No one's adding. Of course He was not Priest on earth, because Scriptures say, on earth He was High Priest, archiereus, not just Priest, hiereus.

That is your private interpretation. Of course you would say something like this in order to fit your private interpretation.

If He should not be a Priest on earth He should not be a High Priest either.

Every true Bible student knows that Christ did not begin His Priesthood in the first apartment of the sanctuary above until His sacrifice was accepted of the Father.

sky

I gave Scriptures, brother. He was able to offer Himself as offering for sin, a work only priests are authorized to do. His atoning sacrifice of Himself was an act NOT intended for the daily ministration in the HP in the Old Covenant, but one which is for the MHP, because of its corporate nature. He can only do this in the capacity of a High Priest.

There is not a single verse in the whole of the Bible that will give a hint Christ became High Priest only after He ascended to heaven. In contrast, I can cite Scriptures that will prove Christ was High Priest on earth, one of which is His being able to offer Himself as sacrifice for ALL the sins of the world. That was ATONEMENT. And it was done on Calvary.

[skyblue888]

No offense but when you say you can prove anything with Scripture, I know by experience with you that it means to put your own private interpretation upon the passages that you quote.

Did you not know that the priest ministered in both apartments of the earthly, that he went daily in the first apartment, but entered the most holy only once a year, to cleanse it from the sins which had been conveyed there.

So Jesus was to minister in both apartments of the heavenly sanctuary.

sky

[Samie]

No offense but when you say you can prove anything with Scripture, I know by experience with you that it means to put your own private interpretation upon the passages that you quote.

[skyblue888]

Who told you he did not?

As to proving what I have said, I just told you, simply by reading your private interpretations of those Scriptures you have quoted so far.

I have quoted Heb.4:4,5 to show that your interpretation is not in harmony with the Bible.

sky

[Samie]

Who told you he did not?

As to proving what I have said, I just told you, simply by reading your private interpretations of those Scriptures you have quoted so far.

I have quoted Heb.4:4,5 to show that your interpretation is not in harmony with the Bible.

sky

When did you quote Heb 4:4,5? Proves, you are sort of not telling the truth, brother.

[JoeMo]

Call me ignorant; but I thought only the High Priest entered the MHP; and then only once per year. The other priests were only allowed to minister in the HP. Isn't that so?

I gotta go with Samie on this one. The only way Christ could offer Himself as the all-atoning sacrifice for our sins is if He was acting as a priest. Didn't one have to be a priest to make the sin offering?

[Samie]

Call me ignorant; but I thought only the High Priest entered the MHP; and then only once per year. The other priests were only allowed to minister in the HP. Isn't that so?

I gotta go with Samie on this one. The only way Christ could offer Himself as the all-atoning sacrifice for our sins is if He was acting as a priest. Didn't one have to be a priest to make the sin offering?

Scriptures say so, JoeMo. Sadly, there are some who cannot believe what Scriptures say.

[skyblue888]

JoeMo, are we to believe that the one chosen to be the High Priest to enter the Most Holy once a year could never minister in the holy place???

And where did I ever say that other than the High Priest could enter the Most Holy?

sky

[skyblue888]

When did I quote Heb.4:4,5?

I meant to write Heb.8:4,5.

Sorry my mistake.

sky

[JoeMo]

Sky,

I don't see where anyone ever said the High Priest didn't minister in the HP; just that only the High priest ministered in the MHP.

You said simply "the 'priest' ministered in both apartments of the earthly" (not "high priest") in post #557525. Maybe I'm being picky.

[Gerr]

Hey, guys, you're arguing that the atonement could not have started until Jesus went to the holy PLACES as priest? Surely, you have not forgotten this text?

‎ESV ‎‎Ps 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind, “You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”

[Gibs]

Ok Gerry,

But He don't serve as High Priest until he has made the sacrifice and He is the only one that will suffice.

Did you ever notice he did not serve as a priest here on eath in the Temple that men built?

The statement in Ps may be more of a prophecy of what He would ultimately become. We will continue our worship of God in Heaven and He is our Priest and King.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.