90% knows nothing about FEAST OF DEDICATION Do YOU?

[Umfundize]

Last Sabbath I visited a Jewish Synogogue in Atlanta and asked the Rabbi if he could explain to me what the Feast of Dedication is, and why they still celebrated it. He explained that John 10:22,23 was referring to Antiochus and Judas who fulfilled the prophecy of Daniel 8:14.

I have noticed that the Bible has no further reference to this feast Jesus observed, and neither did Ellen White ever said anything about it. Do YOU, right now, have any idea of what this feast could refer to? Google: "Wikipedia on John 10:22,23 Hanukkah". How do you react to this discovery? Is it OK to even dare to investigate it further?

[Windsor]

Last Sabbath I visited a Jewish Synogogue in Atlanta and asked the Rabbi if he could explain to me what the Feast of Dedication is, and why they still celebrated it. He explained that John 10:22,23 was referring to Antiochus and Judas who fulfilled the prophecy of Daniel 8:14.

I have noticed that the Bible has no further reference to this feast Jesus observed, and neither did Ellen White ever said anything about it. Do YOU, right now, have any idea of what this feast could refer to? Google: "Wikipedia on John 10:22,23 Hanukkah". How do you react to this discovery? Is it OK to even dare to investigate it further?

That is quite the rabbi to explain New Testament scriptures to you. The Feast of Dedication derives from a book out of the apocrypha. Nowhere in the Bible are Jews or Gentiles commanded to keep it. It has nothing to do with the cleansing of the sanctuary as found in Daniel 8:14. Jesus speaks of the abomination of desolation being a FUTURE event.

[Umfundize]

The FACT is that Jesus attended this feast. The question is: WHO INSTITUTED this feast? God, the Father? Jesus, the Son of God? Any of the Patriarchs? The BIBLE speaks of this feast, which means it must have SOME significance. If the answer is not in the Bible,as to the ORIGIN of this feast, and the premier SDA resource, EGW, has nothing to say, then we need to research outside the SDA block, right? WIKIPEDIA has some very interesting research on John 10:22,23 Hanukkah! Care to check it out?

I asked the Rabbi about a feast they have been celebrating EVERY year, for 2000 years plus, and mentioned to him the reference in the NT. HE then asked me to read Daniel 8:14 and explained it from there. Absolutely NO CONNECTION with a heavenly event that commenced on October 22,1844! It transpired ON EARTH, just like Daniel said it would!

[olger]

I don't know nuthin' about that..

[Naomi]

And this is relevant to ......????

[Windsor]

Jesus also attended a wedding feast at Cana. Does that mean we should as well? Show me the scripture commanding us to keep the feast of dedication.

[phkrause]

Here is your answer, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedication

I'm very surprised a Rabbi would even direct you to the NT, since they have absolutely no Faith in it. Unless he is a Messianic Jew! But I'm really surprised that he didn't tell you about Channakah!

Plus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanukkah

[Ron Amnsn]

And this is relevant to ......????

The Feast of Dedication commemorates an event that was vital to the success of Messiah's mission and the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Alexander the Great had conquered Jerusalem shortly before he died. After Alexander's Greek empire was divided among his generals one of the Greek rulers of Judea, Antiochus Epiphenes, decided to eliminate the worship of the true God among the Jews. Circumcision, Sabbath-keeping, and other practices of God's Law were outlawed. God's Temple was desecrated with idol worship and swine sacrifices.

Under those circumstances, it was not possible for the Messiah to come to redeem the world. In order for Jesus to be a righteous atonement, he needed to follow God's Law. Without a functioning Temple in which to worship God, the requirements of God's Law could not be followed. There would be no place for Jesus' parents to offer the prescribed sacrifice for the birth of a boy. As Jesus grew up there would be no place to go to celebrate God's feasts of Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Without a functioning Temple there would be no way for the Messiah to grow up as a righteous man who followed God's Law.

A small band of faithful Jewish warriors fought for several years to defeat the Greek army in Judea with the help of God. Jerusalem was recaptured, the Temple was cleaned out and dedicated, and the Temple service was restored. This paved the way for the Messiah to come in later years.

The Feast of Dedication (Hanukkah in Hebrew) commemorates that event. When we celebrate it in our family, we also commemorate the awesome events of the dedication of Solomon's Temple and the dedication of the Temple that occurred when the Temple was rebuilt by the exiles who returned from Babylon with Ezra and Nehemiah.

The New Testament tells how Jesus also cleansed God's Temple from unrighteousness and commercial desecration. It also describes the level of interest that Jesus had for God's Temple: "Zeal for your house will consume me." (John 2:17, quoting Psalm 69:9) With that kind of zeal, it was not just a coincidence that Jesus was present at the Temple for the Feast of Dedication.

It puzzles me how Christians who claim to follow and emulate Jesus can be so indifferent about God's Temple, when Jesus was consumed by zeal for it. Christians seem to be lacking a rather important element of Messiah's character.

[Windsor]

My zeal is for the true tabernacle not made with hands rather than that which God allowed to be destroyed and has kept from being rebuilt for nearly 2000 years.

[Umfundize]

And this is relevant to ......????

This is relevant to the Investigative Judgment! If Daniel 8:14 was fulfilled by Antiochus and Judas Maccabeus, like the Jews believe when they celebrate Hanukkah every year, then obviously, Adventists are wrong to apply it to something that happened in heaven! The Rabbi did not point out anything in the NT. I asked HIM if he could explain the feast of Dedication mentioned in John 10:22,23. Try and Google: Wikipedia John 10:22,23 Hanukkah for a very good research. According to the Jews, it was Judas who instituted the feast of Dedication (restoring the sanctuary to its former glory read Dan 8:14 in NASB) Interesting to note why it was also referred to as the Feast of Lights. Most non-SDA commentators view it the Jewish way...as explained in Wikipedia and Maccabees

[Gustave]

The Feast of the Dedication was 'old hat' for Jews by the time of the Incarnation of God...

...It was a feast to celebrate the cleansing of the Temple & associated miracle of the oil.

...Christ could have done to Him "according to the law" IF the Temple was contaminated.

Luke 2,21

And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

Could anyone imagine Liturgical ceremonials being performed on Baby Jesus in a contaminated Temple???

...I'm sure that would excite Lucifer but it was impossible for it to happen.

Jesus was very specific that EVERYTHING written about Him in the Books of the law, prophets & Psalms...

...HAD-TO-BE fulfilled.

...Thus, the Temple HAD TO BE CLEANSED prior to the Incarnation.

...Thus Christ couldn't sin or loose to Lucifer for Scripture said He WOULD rise the 3rd day.

This point would be totally missed by Jews who rejected Christ...

...However to Christians it was certainly not missed.

...For Christ WAS the reason the Temple was cleansed.

[Ron Amnsn]

My zeal is for the true tabernacle not made with hands rather than that which God allowed to be destroyed and has kept from being rebuilt for nearly 2000 years.

Interesting. Your non-biblical term "true tabernacle" seems to imply that Jesus was zealous for a false tabernacle. Should we feel sorry for Jesus because he was wasting his time cleansing and being zealous about a false tabernacle? Didn't Jesus know that the tabernacle made without hands already existed at that time? Why did he set an example of being zealous for that Temple in Jerusalem during the last week before his death, when there was a greater tabernacle to be zealous for?

Hebrews 9:11 speaks of a "greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with human hands" but that doesn't mean that the Temple in Jerusalem somehow lost its significance. Nowhere in Hebrews (or the rest of the NT) does it denigrate the Temple in Jerusalem that Jesus was zealous for.

It's true, the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed a few years ago. When Solomon's Temple was destroyed in Daniel's time, Daniel and the other faithful worshipers of God still prayed three times a day toward Jerusalem, the place God chose to place his Name and to have his Temple built.

Windsor, I'm curious-- How do you show your zeal for what you call the "true tabernacle"? What does that zeal look like in real life?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Windsor

My zeal is for the true tabernacle not made with hands rather than that which God allowed to be destroyed and has kept from being rebuilt for nearly 2000 years.

Interesting. Your non-biblical term "true tabernacle" seems to imply that Jesus was zealous for a false tabernacle. Should we feel sorry for Jesus because he was wasting his time cleansing and being zealous about a false tabernacle? Didn't Jesus know that the tabernacle made without hands already existed at that time? Why did he set an example of being zealous for that Temple in Jerusalem during the last week before his death, when there was a greater tabernacle to be zealous for?

Hebrews 9:11 speaks of a "greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with human hands" but that doesn't mean that the Temple in Jerusalem somehow lost its significance. Nowhere in Hebrews (or the rest of the NT) does it denigrate the Temple in Jerusalem that Jesus was zealous for.

It's true, the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed a few years ago. When that happened in Daniel's time, Daniel and the other faithful worshipers of God still prayed three times a day toward Jerusalem, the place God chose to place his Name and to have his Temple built.

Windsor, I'm curious-- How do you show your zeal for what you call the "true tabernacle"? What does that zeal look like in real life?

[Windsor]

Jesus did not have zeal for a bunch of stones stacked on top of each other. His zeal for the temple was because it was the dwelling place of God Almighty. The temple ceased having significance when the Chief Cornerstone that the builders rejected was hung on a tree. Jesus said their house was left to them desolate.

Jesus is the True Tabernacle. My zeal is for Jesus. I want to dwell with Him. "Lucky" for us, He wants to dwell with us, too.

And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. Revelation 21:3

[Gustave]

Not only that but today Judaism is a false religion...

...It's impossible to practice Judaism w/out a temple.

[Ron Amnsn]

Jesus did not have zeal for a bunch of stones stacked on top of each other. His zeal for the temple was because it was the dwelling place of God Almighty. The temple ceased having significance when the Chief Cornerstone that the builders rejected was hung on a tree. Jesus said their house was left to them desolate.

[Ron Amnsn]

Not only that but today Judaism is a false religion...

...It's impossible to practice Judaism w/out a temple.

It sounds like you may be using the term "Judaism" to refer to what Jews do today, not the instructions that God gave to Israel through Moses at Sinai.

The prophet Daniel was able to truly worship God as a Jew even when there was no Temple. His religion didn't turn into a false one just because the Temple lay temporarily desolate.

[Overaged]

The FACT is that Jesus attended this feast. The question is: WHO INSTITUTED this feast? God, the Father? Jesus, the Son of God? Any of the Patriarchs? The BIBLE speaks of this feast, which means it must have SOME significance. If the answer is not in the Bible,as to the ORIGIN of this feast, and the premier SDA resource, EGW, has nothing to say, then we need to research outside the SDA block, right? WIKIPEDIA has some very interesting research on John 10:22,23 Hanukkah! Care to check it out?

I asked the Rabbi about a feast they have been celebrating EVERY year, for 2000 years plus, and mentioned to him the reference in the NT. HE then asked me to read Daniel 8:14 and explained it from there. Absolutely NO CONNECTION with a heavenly event that commenced on October 22,1844! It transpired ON EARTH, just like Daniel said it would!

I have my feast of dedication every morning at breakfast time.

[Kevin H]

In John we have sections that include (and not always in this order, but containing all these elements) a temple holiday, Jesus saying something (either in public or to an individual) dealing with some aspect of that holiday, an "I AM" saying dealing with that section of the holiday and a sign that is also related to this comment.

The Feast of the Dedication/Hanukkah celebrates that when the worship of the true God was stopped, that God raised it up again. Jesus talked about how even if the true worshipers die that God will raise them up again, the story (sadly the chapter division is in a horrible place) moves on to the death of a true believer and the believer's sister said that her brother will raise on the resurection, however Jesus reminded her that the resurection was not an event but a person "Yahweh, the Resurection and the Life" "I am the Resurection and the Life" and brings this believer back to life, with the promise that no matter how late he is that Jesus will still come and raise up his loved ones!!!

[Gustave]

It sounds like you may be using the term "Judaism" to refer to what Jews do today, not the instructions that God gave to Israel through Moses at Sinai.

[Umfundize]

Daniel 8:14 makes the prediction that, after the sanctuary was destroyed (by Antiochus Epiphanes), it would be repaired or restored to what is was before (that is what Judas indeed accomplished). There is even a time-riddle attached so people could figure out more or less WHEN these things would happen. Most commentators, believe in this view and will not dream to jump from Dan 8:14 right into the Most Holy in HEAVEN on Oct 22,1844.

This idea was promulgated, first by Elan Everts in 1857 and eventually enthralled James White to the point where he had his wife, via "vision" rubberstamp Elan's alternative to Miller's failed Oct 22 date.

These are the facts and when Adventists (especially the younger generation) discover this, they LEAVE the church, some NEVER to return! This is serious! The GC seems to be desperate to find ways and means to do away with this doctrine of the IJ, without having to deny EGW. Seems like they encourage members to visit www.adventistalternative.org so someone else can prepare the ground...for what they might announce later!.Have YOU researched the alternative outside the SDA box? Honestly? Do you agree with the introductory remarks on the Website that "80% of Adventists CANNOT give a Bible-study on the Investigative Judgment"? Can YOU?

[Gibs]

I may find one that is more to the point than this one and I know there is but the cleansing of the Sanctuary beginning 1844 does not need EGW's writings.

" Those who start up to proclaim a message on their own individual responsibility, who, while claiming to be taught and led of God, still make it their special work to tear down that which God has been for years building up, are not doing the will of God. Be it known that these men are on the side of the great deceiver. Believe them not. They are allying themselves with the enemies of God and the truth. They will deride the order of the ministry as a system of priestcraft. From such turn away, have no fellowship with their message, however much they may quote the Testimonies and seek to entrench themselves behind them. Receive them not, for God has not given them this work to do. The result of such work will be unbelief in the Testimonies, and, as far as possible, they will make of none effect the work that I have for years been doing." {TM 51.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Umfundize]

This is a classic example of the brainwashing program EGW specialized in. It is called "cheap psychology"! She wanted to make sure members believe the "Testimonies" on par with the Bible. Since she was "of higher order" than the Bible writers, her opinion should be excepted without question. She warned: if you even have the slightest doubt about the "platform" of the CENTRAL PILLER of ADVENTISM, the Investigative Judgment, "you could loose your eternal life"! WOW! Same technique the Catholics used during the Dark Ages. But, it is loosing its power...people are beginning to think for themselves and ask for BIBLE verification..which IS NOT THERE! Jesus Christ ought to be the "central Pillar" of our faith!

[Ron Amnsn]

In John we have sections that include (and not always in this order, but containing all these elements) a temple holiday, Jesus saying something (either in public or to an individual) dealing with some aspect of that holiday, an "I AM" saying dealing with that section of the holiday and a sign that is also related to this comment.

The Feast of the Dedication/Hanukkah celebrates that when the worship of the true God was stopped, that God raised it up again. Jesus talked about how even if the true worshipers die that God will raise them up again, the story (sadly the chapter division is in a horrible place) moves on to the death of a true believer and the believer's sister said that her brother will raise on the resurrection, however Jesus reminded her that the resurrection was not an event but a person "Yahweh, the Resurrection and the Life" "I am the Resurrection and the Life" and brings this believer back to life, with the promise that no matter how late he is that Jesus will still come and raise up his loved ones!!!

So Kevin, are you saying that Jesus in the book of John systematically abolished the prophetic events and appointed times as mentioned in the Scriptures by changing them from events into personal attributes of Messiah?

[Ron Amnsn]

I have my feast of dedication every morning at breakfast time.

How blessed is the man who does not ... sit in the seat of scoffers! (Psalm 1:1)