Should "Cohabitators" be allowed to be leaders in the church?

[Tallmark]

[Guest]

I was disfellowshipped once for cohabitating. That was when I was younger, and I've since seen the error of my ways. :)

[Woody]

I was disfellowshipped once for cohabitating. That was when I was younger, and I've since seen the error of my ways.

Yes - but I hear you are going to co-habitate soon. (legally I am sure)

[Guest]

:)

[Jeannieb43]

Do we need a public ceremony to be married in the sight of God? Can't committed couples just exchange vows before God and be recognized by heaven as married?

Interesting question.

I don't know of any Biblical Scripture which mandates a public wedding ceremony before two people can be married. {Remember when Eliezar brought a bride to his master, and he(Jacob) at once took her into his mother's tent, and they were husband and wife from then on....?]

[Woody]

Not sure that scripture requires us to go to government to verify a marriage. ???

[Windsor]

Let me give you a couple of scenarios.

A woman is divorced by her husband through no fault of her own and receives a pretty good sum for alimony. She falls in love with a man who is unemployed or can't get a job for some reason. If she officially marries him, she loses the alimony and would have nothing. But if they just "cohabitate", she/they would have something to live on.

Wow. Are you suggesting it is OK to cheat her husband out of half his paycheck every month?

[Woody]

I do feel we should collaborate with the cohabitators.

[Dr. Shane]

A woman is divorced by her husband through no fault of her own and receives a pretty good sum for alimony. She falls in love with a man who is unemployed or can't get a job for some reason. If she officially marries him, she loses the alimony and would have nothing. But if they just "cohabitate", she/they would have something to live on.

Her ex-husband is only obligated to support her until another man takes that task. Now lets talk about getting free milk from a cow. If that old boy wants the milk, he needs to get off his duff and pay for the cow not live off the cow's ex-husband.

[Woody]

Let's talk turkey.

[Dr. Shane]

I was disfellowshipped once for cohabitating. That was when I was younger, and I've since seen the error of my ways.

That is what needs to happen if they are not willing to repent and stop co-habitating. The whole purpose in disfellowshipping someone is to lead them back to Christ and that happens a lot more often than many realize. I personally know three people that have been disfellowshipped and later returned to the church.

[Dr. Shane]

Those confused about this subject need only listen to the Georgia Satellites. Repeat until the confusion goes away.

[Gordon1]

Do we need a public ceremony to be married in the sight of God? Can't committed couples just exchange vows before God and be recognized by heaven as married?

Good question. The modern wedding seems loaded with mistakes of non-Biblical variety.

How many recall these words muttered by a 'servant of God':

"By the power invested in me by the state of ___________, I now pronounce you man & wife."

Why does the state, a very secular and today v. corrupt body, have any authority over an institution which God established before the fall of man? Will we accept their definition of Sabbath as well?

Isaac & Rebekah were brought together by their own faith in God and the active faith of others.

Who defines legitimate marriage? God? State? A J.P. in San Francisco?

[monty]

Gordon !......Perhaps we could look at the marriage Jesus honored by His presence and which He performed His first miracle that we know of. As I understand it the joining of the couple was arrainged by the parents and if it was not a love match they were not forced to proceed. Starting a year or so before the wedding a room or dwelling was added to his parents home as the new couples dwelling. The "ceremony" was more celebration than ceremony. The marriage was consumated during the celebration with the best man standing guard at the new "home". The celebration could last more than one day. It was really a deeply involved event by the community and family. The new wife was then expected to be a part of the productive husbands family. A dowry was involved to protect the marriage. The priest did not hold up his right hand and state "by the authority invested in me by Caeser" it was much more spiritual and community based than that. Please feel free to correct if I am wrong.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

So God doesn't require a public marriage commitment if it hurts a couple financially? And He looks the other way when they engage in those things marrieds do because it's really all about the money?

Do we need a public ceremony to be married in the sight of God? Can't committed couples just exchange vows before God and be recognized by heaven as married?

Not unless there is no other option like being marooned on a desert island somewhere. Besides how will anyone (particularly in the church or worse the IRS!!)know whether or not you're telling the truth and why the self-centered need to make your own rules and expect that God, and everyone else must without question validate them? Can you give any Biblical support for such a sin riddled suggestion? PS) If you tell the IRS you're still single in order to save a few bucks while telling God and the rest of the world that you're really married then it not only makes you a fornicator it also makes you a liar and a violator of God's "render unto Caesar" command.And if no public ceremony is needed then why should anyone get baptized? Please tell me you're playing devil's advocate?

[Gordon1]

Yes Monty! - though I don't recall much detail concerning the wedding at Cana - nor was I an eye witness to that period. But, Yes to a public proclamation or celebration, sans state ordination. There's no shame in following God's way. (OTOH, modern excess and display could be shameful..)

The traditional or cultural views may not be Biblical Monty. Building onto the parent's home does not sound much like: "A man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife.." (Genesis 2:24)

We're safest when we build on Biblical precedent. Historical commentaries introduce doubt and confusion so I avoid them. And I might send the best man back to the salad bar..

[Gerr]

Wow. Are you suggesting it is OK to cheat her husband out of half his paycheck every month?

In this case I was describing, it was the husband that cheated on her.

[Gerr]

Not unless there is no other option like being marooned on a desert island somewhere. Besides how will anyone (particularly in the church or worse the IRS!!)know whether or not you're telling the truth and why the self-centered need to make your own rules and expect that God, and everyone else must without question validate them? Can you give any Biblical support for such a sin riddled suggestion? PS) If you tell the IRS you're still single in order to save a few bucks while telling God and the rest of the world that you're really married then it not only makes you a fornicator it also makes you a liar and a violator of God's "render unto Caesar" command.And if no public ceremony is needed then why should anyone get baptized? Please tell me you're playing devil's advocate?

How will people know? Abimelech was not fooled when Isaac told him that Rebekah was his sister. He saw him "caressing" (NASB, NIV) her.

Even states recognize common law marriages.

Which is more binding - a solemn vow before God or the sham wedding piece of paper from Las Vegas?

And, yes, I'm playing the devil's advocate!

[LynnDel]

Quote:

Do we need a public ceremony to be married in the sight of God? Can't committed couples just exchange vows before God and be recognized by heaven as married?

Not too long ago I was a guest at a wedding ceremony in which, I learned later, the state was not involved, i.e. the wedding was to show friends and family the couple's commitment to each other, but was not a legal ceremony. Though I could understand the reasons they might give, I couldn't help feeling that there was something fake about it.

Marriage is the greatest depiction of God's love and promise to His bride, and when He comes for us, His bride, it is going to be the grandest marriage ceremony the universe has ever seen!

I don't believe in the secret rapture, and I don't believe in secret weddings.

LD

[monty]

I certainly was'nt an eye witness to this Cana wedding either. However Jesus did participate in it by being a part of it. By being there it seems He might have approved of what "most" of what transpired. Building on to the parents home was a way of giving the new couple a start using the resources of an established family. The bestman would just be protecting the couples privacy in the several day affair and he could always partake of the salad bar with his favorite Ranch dressing later. A savvy groom would not choose a voyeur. In the right context it could have been supportive of them. Of course if they were still connected to the fathers house thirty years later thats something else. My point is it seems to have been much more community and spiritually based than current Christian (SDA) practices. Your right some of this is conjecture.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Let me give you a couple of scenarios.

A woman is divorced by her husband through no fault of her own and receives a pretty good sum for alimony. She falls in love with a man who is unemployed or can't get a job for some reason. If she officially marries him, she loses the alimony and would have nothing. But if they just "cohabitate", she/they would have something to live on.

Wow. Are you suggesting it is OK to cheat her husband out of half his paycheck every month?

That was funny,W!

[doug yowell]

Quote:

Do we need a public ceremony to be married in the sight of God? Can't committed couples just exchange vows before God and be recognized by heaven as married?

.

Marriage is the greatest depiction of God's love and promise to His bride, and when He comes for us, His bride, it is going to be the grandest marriage ceremony the universe has ever seen!

I don't believe in the secret rapture, and I don't believe in secret weddings.

LD

An excellent point!

[doug yowell]

How will people know? Abimelech was not fooled when Isaac told him that Rebekah was his sister. He saw him "caressing" (NASB, NIV) her.

[Windsor]

Originally Posted By: Windsor

Wow. Are you suggesting it is OK to cheat her husband out of half his paycheck every month?

In this case I was describing, it was the husband that cheated on her.

I understand the (ex) husband wronged her. However, that doesn't excuse her for taking his money when the government set up alimony only to tie a woman over until she was remarried. This woman is trying to have her cake (a new guy) and eat it too (keep taking money from the old one).

[doug yowell]

Thanks for the link,C. I just skimmed thru the article and found it to be poorly argued especially from a Biblical standpoint.The author made several recommendations but completely failed to provide any living models of co-habitation that would illustrate the validity of his point. He also failed to offer even one Biblical text to support his implication that the common definition of marriage was somehow a man made concoction.So much for a lifestyle based upon the principles of the Bible and the Bible only.But then,what can you expect from a guy named Reindeer who writes for Spectrum?? Merry Christmas co-habitators!