Should "Cohabitators" be allowed to be leaders in the church?

[Dr. Shane]

Not too long ago I was a guest at a wedding ceremony in which, I learned later, the state was not involved, i.e. the wedding was to show friends and family the couple's commitment to each other, but was not a legal ceremony.

The state was not involved in my church wedding but that is because we got married in the courthouse five months earlier. I loved her so much I married her twice with no divorce between

[Woody]

Very cool Shane.

[cricket]

Just a quick note...sometimes (and no longer uncommonly) alimony is paid to support the man--until another woman decides to "take the job".

[cricket]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

A woman is divorced by her husband through no fault of her own and receives a pretty good sum for alimony. She falls in love with a man who is unemployed or can't get a job for some reason. If she officially marries him, she loses the alimony and would have nothing. But if they just "cohabitate", she/they would have something to live on.

Her ex-husband is only obligated to support her until another man takes that task. Now lets talk about getting free milk from a cow. If that old boy wants the milk, he needs to get off his duff and pay for the cow not live off the cow's ex-husband.

That's disgusting, Shane. There are women in your life, aren't there? Are you mindful of how you speak about women at all?

[olger]

Please show me where in the scriptures that it states that one must be married by the state or the government.

State or government is not the issue, what is at issue is public (or formal) marriage with witnesses/vows versus just having sex with someone and claiming that that makes you "married."

Sex outside of marriage doesn't make you married - it makes you a sinner. It must be repented of and renounced in order to come back into the blessing of God. "Go and sin no more" said Jesus the Christ.

1. Marriage is an institution created by God and therefore is holy.

Jesus confirmed this in Matthew 19 when He said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Because God created marriage, it becomes more than just a cultural idea. It is a holy union blessed by God. In recognizing such, it deserves a certain amount of respect and recognition beyond "we say we're married so we are".

2. Marriage can only be between a man and a woman.

In creating marriage, God defined it precisely. Genesis 2:24 states, "For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh." Marriage can only be between a man and a woman where they are joined together as a single entity. It involves the leaving of the old, childhood life and starting something new.

There are many kinds of unions between people. However, that does not make them equivalent to marriage. Living together may be a type of union, but it does not join the participants into a single entity. Our laws recognize that spouses cannot testify against one another; precisely because they are joined in such a union.

It also answers the question of so-called "homosexual marriage". Since, by definition, marriage can only be between a man and a woman, homosexual unions are not marriages. They cannot be. You may use some other term to describe their relationship, but to use the word marriage is incorrect. The definition won't allow it.

3. Marriage is more than a commitment.

Some people currently say that nowhere in the bible does it state you have to go through a 'ceremony' and they felt what they did was enough." Some say they feel making vows to each other was enough to constitute a marriage in the eyes of God. However, the Bible actually does take a different view.

You see, marriage is more than just making a commitment to someone else. It is also entering into a holy covenant before God. In Malachi, God is rebuking the people of Judah for not following His laws. There we read, " 'Because the Lord has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion, and your wife by covenant.. For I hate divorce,' says the Lord." (Mal 2:14,16). (For more on divorce, please see "Is Matthew 19 a Contradiction?").

God says here that marriage is a covenant, one witnessed and sealed by Him. A commitment is a civil agreement. A covenant is religious by nature and should be presided over by a religious official. Breaking a commitment can be done by mutual agreement. However, a covenant is considered binding and can only be broken if God has provided for such a dissolution - such as adultery.

4. Marriage is to be witnessed.

Because marriage is a covenant to be entered freely by two individuals, is must be witnessed by at least two or three people. This idea is confirmed in Matthew 18:16, where Jesus quotes Leviticus, "Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed."

Ruth 4:9-12 shows this applies specifically to marriage when Boaz seeks out witnesses to secure his right to marry Ruth, the Moabitess. There, the witnesses even pronounce a marriage blessing on them.

5. Marriage is to be held in honor.

If we take all of the above into account, we can see that marriage is an institution not to be taken lightly. In fact, it is a union of the highest honor. "Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled..." (Heb. 13:4).

Interestingly, this verse links the idea of marriage to legal custom. In Romans 13, Paul tells us that we are to be in subjection to governing authorities. In other words, we are to obey the laws of the land because God has placed those people in power. Then, in verse 7, he writes, "Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor."

We know that marriage is honorable and the Bible commands us to render it honor properly. Further, it shows that we are to obey the governing laws and respect the customs associated with Biblical marriage.

Our laws recognize the holy union of marriage (point number 1), require it to be between a man and a woman (point number 2), recognizes the covenant nature of marriage by sanctioning clergy to perform marriage ceremonies (point number 3), and requires witnesses (point number 4). Therefore, in order to give marriage proper honor and to render the proper respect to the governing authorities, legal marriage is both required and appropriate. It does not follow that legal marriage is not necessary in today's society.

Taking all into account, the Bible clearly shows that an official marriage ceremony governed by clergy is entering into marriage appropriately. Jesus blessed official marriage by performing His first miracle at the marriage feast in Cana (John 2) . His relationship with the church is compared to a bridegroom and his bride, again showing the holiness of the marriage relationship.

It is an unfortunate commentary on our society that we've reduced the idea of marriage to one of comfort. With Las Vegas 30 minute weddings and no-fault divorce, we are straying farther and farther away from the idea of the holy covenant God set forth. It is to be binding, not broken by any man.

If a person truly is serious in vowing "until death do us part", then why would they be resistant to making that vow legal? Many times people are betrayed by their concern for the consequences of their actions. The consequences of dissolving a legal marriage are much less than they were, but are still significant. It could be those consequences are what bothers people, which means they aren't entering a covenant relationship, but merely a temporary agreement -and that isn't marriage.

I hope this has helped you understand what Biblical marriage is and why it is important.

• An additional reason that marriage exists only when a covenant is entered into is found in 2 Samuel 15. Amnon wanted to “take” Tamar in a physical relationship. She pleaded with him to not do this evil thing, and to ask her father and he would give her to Amnon. If the sexual union creates a “marriage” then she would have no basis for her plea to Amnon to wait and ask for her hand in marriage.

• You cannot marry yourself any more than you can baptize yourself.

• Living together (outside of marriage) does not create a marriage – it creates pain & consequences.

• Choose wisely treat kindly

• When a person says it’s just a piece of paper – ask them to open their wallet and give you all their money. After all, it’s just paper.

[olger]

That makes no difference. Alimony is paid to support the woman until another man decides to take the job. If the new man is man enough to lay down and have sexual intercourse with the woman he needs to be man enough to go out and get a job and bring a paycheck home to a woman. What kind of man is going to shack up with a woman and live off from her ex-husband?

Good point, Shane.

rejoice always,

G

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Shane

What kind of man is going to shack up with a woman and live off from her ex-husband?

Good point, Shane.

Yep, except I'm not sure the word "man" is the appropriate descriptive noun.

[olger]

male, then.

Big difference between a male and a man.

Rejoice always brethren!

G

[doug yowell]

male, then.

Big difference between a male and a man.

Rejoice always brethren!

G

Two thumbs up!!

[philo]

Some meditaions on the lakeshore in the shadow :

The Waldensians - very quickly spreading out nothward at first to the line Hannover - Berlin and havong a preachers seminary somewhere behnid my backyard, must have lived in "cohabitation" since the papal bull of 1184 : No acces to the only wedding officer appointed by the landlord (here the Babanebergians)and the bishop (of Passau), the Catholic priest.

My ancestry in Germany is quite easily to be followed back to late seventeenth century : Grandfather was a converted Catholic, the parsihes, burned down in the thirty year war, were rebuilt and begun with new registries of births, babtisms and weddings. The Grandmothers line for centuries (?) had its spiritual home in conveticles of Anababtists, Pietists, Bretheren - - the oldest known concept of a Germman Seventh Day Adventists sermon, delivered on Augist 18, 1848 in Vohwinkel, out one ancestors hand, is my loan to Theologische Hochschule Friedensau. - - - The local (Protestant) parishioner complaines about such groups concentraded in Wuppertal to the landlord, them attracting HIS churchgoers and emptying HIS pews. Since he was the only one entitled to conduct weddings - - - - they lived in "coabitation"; no notes in the registries of the parishes.

The "Civil Wedding" finally was introduced in Germany in 1875.

It was compulsory : First the civil wedding, then the Church ceremony.

Since January 1. 2009 in Germany you can be wed in Chrch without a "civil wedding" at all, since for decades th RCC discussed the questioj if it is right to administer a "sacrament" only after having the individual permission from State authorities and already conducted their illicit practice in some cases. SDA - as "good citicens" rather disfellowshipped.