What causes the shaking?

[Robert]

-BC- EW

-TI- Early Writings of Ellen G. White

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-CT- Spiritual Gifts

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I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God’s people.

[Robert]

Self-righteousness is not the wedding garment. A failure to follow the clear light of truth is our fearful danger. The message to the Laodicean church reveals our condition as a people. [RH 12-15-1904]

The shaking is caused "by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans". The message is turn away from self-righteousness and repent.

[Robert]

Rev 3:14 "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.

[Robert]

We must have a knowledge of ourselves, a knowledge that will result in contrition, before we can find pardon and peace. The Pharisee felt no conviction of sin. The Holy Spirit could not work with him. His soul was encased in a self-righteous armor which the arrows of God, barbed and true-aimed by angel hands, failed to penetrate. It is only he who knows himself to be a sinner that Christ can save. .... While speaking to God of poverty of spirit, the heart may be swelling with the conceit of its own superior humility and exalted righteousness. In one way only can a true knowledge of self be obtained. We must behold Christ. It is ignorance of Him that makes men so uplifted in their own righteousness. When we contemplate His purity and excellence, we shall see our own weakness and poverty and defects as they really are. We shall see ourselves lost and hopeless, clad in garments of self-righteousness, like every other sinner. We shall see that if we are ever saved, it will not be through our own goodness, but through God's infinite grace. [COL 158/159]

[Robert]

"Many give a bare assent to truth when they are not sanctified through the truth. They do not in Spirit represent Christ. They are surface workers, and delude themselves with the idea that they are Christians. So effectually does this delusion take possession of heart and mind that the sharp arrows of the Lord fail to penetrate the armor of self righteousness in which they are encased. The spell is so strong that they will listen to the truth, the most earnest and powerful, even to the very portraying of the delusions which are upon them without any thought of self-examination to see if it means them. This is the class our Saviour found most difficult to arouse. The most authoritative teachings were heard and listened to as if they heard not. Thus it is with many, many in this generation." 1888, p. 796.

[Robert]

Self-righteousness is the danger of this age; it separates the soul from Christ. Those who trust to their own righteousness cannot understand how salvation comes through Christ (Faith and Works, p. 96).

Let those who feel inclined to make a high profession of holiness look into the mirror of God’s law. As they see its far-reaching claims, and understand its work as a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart, they will not boast of sinlessness (The Acts of the Apostles, p. 562).

How can anyone who is brought before the holy standard of God’s law—which makes apparent the evil motives, the unhallowed desires, the infidelity of the heart, the impurity of the lips, and that lays bare the life— make any boast of holiness? His acts of disloyalty in making void the law of God are exposed to his sight, and his spirit is stricken and afflicted under the searching influence of the Spirit of God. He loathes himself, as he views the greatness, the majesty, the pure and spotless character of Jesus Christ (Ellen G. White, in Review and Herald, Oct. 16, 1888).

[Robert]

So, from the teachings of EGW, the great problem in Adventism are legalism & self-righteousness. This is what will cause the shaking among the people of God!

[Gibs]

The Question is that is of utmost importance is, what is the straight testimony so rised up against?

The following Quote from EGW will clear that up,

I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen. I was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the true Witness to the Laodiceans. It will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver of the testimony, and it will lead to him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. This straight testimony some will not bear. They will rise up against it, and this will cause a shaking among God's people. {1SG 184.3}

I saw that the testimony of the true Witness has not been half heeded. The solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the church hangs, has been lightly esteemed, if not entirely disregarded. This testimony must work deep repentance, and all that truly receive it, will obey it, and be purified. {1SG 185.1}

Said the angel, List ye! Soon I heard a voice that sounded like many musical instruments, all sounding in perfect strains, sweet and harmonious. It surpassed any music I had ever heard. It seemed to be so full of mercy, compassion, and elevating, holy joy. It thrilled through my whole being. Said the angel, Look ye! My attention was then turned to the company I had seen before, who were mightily shaken. I was shown those whom I had before seen weeping, and praying with agony of spirit. I saw that the company of guardian angels around them had doubled, and they were clothed with an armor from their head to their feet. They moved in exact order, firm like a company of soldiers. Their countenances expressed the severe conflict which they had endured, the agonizing struggle they had passed through. Yet their features, marked with severe internal anguish, shone now with the light and glory of heaven. They had obtained the victory, and it called forth from them the deepest gratitude, and holy, sacred joy. {1SG 185.2}

The numbers of this company had lessened. Some had been shaken out, and left by the way. The careless and indifferent who did not join with those who prized victory and salvation enough to agonize, persevere, and plead for it, did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, and their numbers were immediately made up by others taking hold of the truth, and coming into the ranks. Still the evil angels pressed around them, but they could have no power over them. {1SG 186.1}

Why did not the evil angels have any power over them? Because friends, ( my signature verse )

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gustave]

Could this not be a prophecy of the ultimate destruction of Seventh Day Adventism...

...By the truth of the Trinity which causes a denominational rejection of Arianism?

[Gibs]

Adventism Gustave will ever stick from here on out with the trinity doctrine.

That did not come in as doctrine until several hundred yrs after Christ. No it is not a truism. It is a very false doctrine. But this is not I do not come close to finding to be the cause of the great shaking.

I find it is the most important issue concerning man, his Salvation!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gustave]

Adventism Gustave will ever stick from here on out with the trinity doctrine.

[Robert]

Gentlemen, if you can't stay on subject I'll ask the moderate to close this thread.

The subject is "What causes the shaking?"

[Gibs]

Robert,

Why do you think all the independant ministries broke out in SDAdventism? It was the issue of salvation mostly and the occult coming in. That issue of salvation and the straight testimony is what split the church now many, many years.

Since that time the denomination structure has run stronger and stronger with the saved in sin theology. This is the main issue I pulled out of the denomination and most of the rest of the hundreds of thousands around the world.

We have a minister here that broke out around 85 miles from here with a ministry named "The Straight Testimonies Ministry". Home churches broke out every where and are still breaking out.

My hope is the shaking to get very strong agaian that more will be awakened to the truth of the straight testimony that all must be overcomers.

Oh no, the Straight Testimony is not saved in sin! Never, Never, Never on that score!

The very reason He came was to make the way for forgiveness of past sin and power to be given us to overcome sinning. To break the original lie of Satan, man cannot keep God's Law. All now can walk as He walked and there is no doubt about it. Many will refuse His Way and Power to accomplish it but He forces no man, and he is free to or not to.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[cheddar]

The straight testimony is the 1888 message.

Ellen White said that over and over and over again.

And the 1888 message is all about the gospel and very little about the commandments.

People who work really hard at keeping the commandments think they are better than the main-line people but they are just deluding themselves.

[JoeMo]

Robert quoted Jesus' message to the Laodicean Chuch earlier in this thread:

"These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see." (Rev. 3:14-18)

The messenger is obviously the Lord Jesus.

What follows is my opinion - I have no further scripture to back it up; but I believe it to have been revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. I admit it could have also come from my overactive imagination in the middle of a sleepless night; but I choose to believe it came from the former source.

Could being "hot" or "cold" refer to being "saved by grace" or "saved by works", respectively? Could being "lukewarm" refer to mixing grace and works? My observations of the threads on CA indicate that almost every subject eventually devolves into "saved by grace" or "saved by works"; or some application of that debate. It seems to be a dividing line here! Could Jesus be warning us to choose either one or the other as a basis for judgement; because, if we mix the two, we fail by both accounts.

Jesus gave us a free will; and therefore will respect our choice of standards under which we wish to be judged - covered by His grace through faith or perfect adherence to the whole Law.

The corporate denomination mixes the two; and I believe this could cause the shaking - in the sense that the issue will so badly divide the church that it will eventually implode.

[Gustave]

It's logical that the shaking would be caused by an issue that rocks the SDA church...

...More so then it ever has been shaken previously.

...The Trinity Doctrine is such an issue - it's already started.

[Gibs]

No JoeMo,

I think not as here are two verses from the message to the Laodiceans that let you know what the problem is.

Re 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Re 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

That tells me the story, they think they are rich and have it all but in reality they have very little, they are declared to be wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked!

The following verse, 18, they are told they need to anoint the eyes with eyesalve that they might see. They are counciled to buy of Him gold "tried in the fire", and white raiment as they are not clothed but only think they are.

That is exactly the case we are seeing with the church. The whopping great majority in the church fit the description

They have asked for smooth things for their itching ears and they have what they cried for but is worthless.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

What goes around comes around again as was in Isaiah's day,

Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Hear Him and His Straight Testimony is the call and must be heeded quickly as time is at an very close end.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Hey Gibs,

I see Rev 3:17-18 from the opposite side of the street. I see those who are saying that they are rich and don't know that they are blind and wretched as the same folks of whom Jesus spoke when he said:

"They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Mark 2:17)

You and I both know people that are full of self-righteousness as the Pharisees were. They are in need of nothing; thinking that their deeds will help them into heaven; that they are "good people". They don't realize that their own deeds are as filthy rags; so they never cast themselves at the feet of Jesus, coveting His mercy and grace as the only way to the Kingdom. They never seek His white rainment to cover the nakedness of their so-called good deeds; nor do they desire His eyesalve to see their abject need of a Savior.

Be Blessed,

JoeMo

[Gibs]

Look again JoeMo, isn't this exactly what is the case with the present day church. I sure don't see how it can be applied to any other and the church admits it and I've even heard it said, we are proud to be Laodiceans. Aren't the rich always proud? But they don't know it, that they are desparatly poor.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

I don't base a lot of my opinions on what the church says, I base them on what the Holy Spirit and the Word of God tells me. And they tell me to keep my eyes on Jesus and His grace; not the Law or the traditions of man.

[Gail]

I don't base a lot of my opinions on what the church says, I base them on what the Holy Spirit and the Word of God tells me. And they tell me to keep my eyes on Jesus and His grace; not the Law or the traditions of man.

O, how love I thy law! It is my meditation all the day! Ps.119:97

The law is there to bring us to Christ. It might hurt sometimes, but I don't see the problem there.

It is when we place sin in front of us, ours or others'. It can either entice us or meet up with the self in us to cause us to rise up and judge.

There is a time to speak out against sin. But there are those also who have their sin radars on, ready to condemn people at any time.

[Woody]

Yes Gail. They do. And if only they realized that pointing to the Love of God is far better than pointing out people's sins.

[Gustave]

I get the idea you folks think I'm kidding - well, I'm not kidding...

...The O.P. asks; what causes "the shaking"?

...Well, count the independent SDA ministries & do some simple math.

The fact is the MAJORITY of all of them are against the Trinity Doctrine...

...And every month that goes by MORE are added to their lot.

...The SDA Church is being shaken now more then ever and it's over creature christ.

[Gibs]

The shaking is not a pleasant business at all. However it must be done. Is it to be renewed again or is it fizzing out? Are most stakes driven in and set? I hope not. But extreme hard times are coming and this may bring it on strong.

"I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen. I was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. It will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver of the testimony, and it will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth. This straight testimony, some will not bear. They will rise up against it, and this will cause a shaking among God's people. {RH, December 31, 1857 par. 5}

I saw that the testimony of the True Witness has not been half heeded. The solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the Church hangs, has been lightly esteemed, if not entirely disregarded. This testimony must work deep repentance, and all that truly receive it, will obey it, and be purified. {RH, December 31, 1857 par. 6}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Gustave,

There are independent ministries for just about every issue in Adventism - not just the Trinity. There are those that think ClubAdventist and Adventist frontier Missions are independent ministries. All of the "rebel" independent ministries (I don't include C/A or AFM as rebels) have one thing in common - they are all rebelling against man-made institurional denominationalism. problem is, most of them are setting up thier own man-made denominationalism, deteating thier own purpose for existence. The people of God seeking intimate relationship with the Lord King Jesus - inside or outside of any denomination - is what will bring about the shaking. When people turn to the Lord God and his Spirit for direction instead of man-made traditions; and unite to the common purpose of seeking a relationship with God rather than "club" membership is when the foundations of man-made denominationalism will be shaken to its core.

To God and God Alone be the Glory,

JoeMo