What causes the shaking?

[Robert]

Anyway, we've drifted again. Back to the shaking:

"The people of God are represented in the message to the Laodiceans as in a position of carnal (which is another word for fleshly) security. They are at ease, believing themselves to be in an exalted condition of spiritual attainment.” [3T 252]

They (referring to ministers) are not willing to be deprived of the garment of their own self-righteousness. They are not willing to exchange their own righteousness, which is unrighteousness, for the righteousness of Christ...."

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

But for me He only expects of me perfection in this our sphere....

Watered down perfection is no perfection at all. It's either all or nothing. No credit....

Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.”

Rob - Keep in mind that our prophet said:

“When we bring our lives to complete obedience to the law of God, regarding God as our supreme Guide, and clinging to Christ as our hope of righteousness, God will work in our behalf.” EGW

(MS 43, 1907). {1BC 1118.4}

So unless you are perfect - God will not work on your behalf.

Get with it man -----

[Robert]

“When we bring our lives to complete obedience to the law of God, regarding God as our supreme Guide, and clinging to Christ as our hope of righteousness, God will work in our behalf.”

I think this is backwards? I think she means if we cling to Christ as our only hope of experiencing any righteousness, God will work in us. In other words we must admit what Christ stated, "without Me you can do nothing".

Many of her statements are confusing and many are very, very clear. Weird, huh?

[Gibs]

If you believe you can not then nothing will come about. Knowing you can is the faith that will overcome the world sin and all.

My overcoming Robert is nothing of me to bragg of. Nor will you or anyone can get me too. It is Christ in me that is my strength and I realize of myself I am nothing and so I do not rely on self, he is dead long ago anyway. He holds my hand and I don't try to let go and He don't try to be free of me so I stay safe that way. He is precious to me and I am precious to Him.

He will hold onto anyones hand and lead them through on safe paths. And He can hold all hands in the world if all would. But men don't want to be broken of self and spirit and so try it on their own and no prize is gained.

You can call it watered down perfection but what counts is that He sees me in Christ's robe, not mine. Mine is mired in too many sins of the past so I put on His Robe as offered free and gladly.

My walk is with Him and nothing in the Devil, the Devil is my worst enemy besides self but self has been killed.

It all comes about by my desire now to please Him in every way and not one little tiny scrape of anything to the destroyer. I now walk with my very best nearest and best friend, Jesus Christ. All the time we talk, by spirit.

That is not a galling or hard life but one of peace and surity.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

No one is asking you to brag Gibs - just proclaim what God is doing for you. It is called your testimony or witness.

[Robert]

You can call it watered down perfection but what counts is that He sees me in Christ's robe, not mine.

“All our righteousness are as filthy rags” (Isa. 64:6). There is nothing in us from which we can clothe the soul so that its nakedness shall not appear. We are to receive the robe of righteousness woven in the loom of heaven, even the spotless robe of Christ’s righteousness.

[EGW]

[Robert]

Only the covering which Christ Himself has provided can make us meet to appear in God's presence. This covering, the robe of His own righteousness, Christ will put upon every repenting, believing soul. "I counsel thee," He says, "to buy of Me . . . white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear." Rev. 3:18. [EGW]

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

You can call it watered down perfection but what counts is that He sees me in Christ's robe, not mine.

“All our righteousness are as filthy rags” (Isa. 64:6). There is nothing in us from which we can clothe the soul so that its nakedness shall not appear. We are to receive the robe of righteousness woven in the loom of heaven, even the spotless robe of Christ’s righteousness.

[EGW]

Praise the Lord Rob.

Yes indeed. Each Christian needs to have that Robe cover us because even what Christ does IN us is no way close enough to merit salvation. Only what HE did gives us salvation.

[Gibs]

But Woody, do any get to put on that robe other than the overcomer?

Read carefully what Jesus states here,

Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

What is that white raiment and note also "I will not blot out his name out of the book of life".

Notice who decides this, Jesus!

There is the solid ground, His Word on the subject.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Gibs - Your idea of overcoming is not what I read in scripture.

[Gibs]

The KJV Woody is written on a fifth grade level and there is no problem for me to know without any doubt what He tells me. It is as clear as clear can be.

I just don't read in anything that is not there. Sorry!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment....

Keep in mind that if sinless living in sinful flesh is possible, it is not what justifies. In other words it is not in addition to what Christ accomplished 2000 years ago. Christ alone justified humanity in Himself.

Here's the NIV:

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments"

The white garments aren't given to those who overcome, rather those who overcome do so because they are already clothed in Christ's righteousness.

[Robert]

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments"

And guess what? Those who fail to live Christ's life (the multitudes) will be clothed with the same robe of righteousness.

[Robert]

It is as clear as clear can be.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so....

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

It is as clear as clear can be.

Saying it's so doesn't make it so....

Yes. I prefer to stick with the Bible as a whole.

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment....

Keep in mind that if sinless living in sinful flesh is possible, it is not what justifies. In other words it is not in addition to what Christ accomplished 2000 years ago. Christ alone justified humanity in Himself.

Here's the NIV:

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments"

The white garments aren't given to those who overcome, rather those who overcome do so because they are already clothed in Christ's righteousness.

Then Robert, are you an overcomer?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Then Robert, are you an overcomer?

I am not so blind to think for 1ms that I am living Christ's life. Who are you kidding?

I am complete in Christ.

[Jeremiah 33:3]

Very interesting topic.

This is what I believe causes the "shaking". We are either shaken in our out of WHAT? Zion, the church of the firstborn - whose names are written in HEAVEN in the book of Life.

Imagine a big salt shaker in the sky. God is "shaking" the salt shaker - those who do not hang on to His Son and accept Christ's righteousness (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance) for their own righteousness AND obey/keep His commandments in the name of His Son who He sent to reconcile us back to Him will be shaken out of the church in Heaven, Zion, the church of the firstborn.

Quote:

“The Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.” Isaiah 59:20 or "He shall come as a Redeemer to Zion and to those in Jacob (Spiritual Israel=God's spirit filled commandment keeping remnant people) who turn from transgression, says the Lord."

This would be members of the church Triumphant that sinners are shaken out of -- not the church militant. Ellen White says this about the modern day GC-SDA organization: "Those who think that the church militant is the church triumphant make a GREAT MISTAKE." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 152.

If we pray and ask God in the name of His Son to show us our errors - believe me - He WILL show us. When we study, pray and learn what things we are doing that are wrong =straight testimony = then we will either reject them or accept and obey the commands of God.

Quote:

"In order to let Jesus into our hearts, we must stop sinning". Signs of the Times, Mar 3, 1898

Quote:

"Now to him (Jesus) who is ABLE to preserve you WITHOUT SIN, and to present you spotless before the presence of his glory (His Father) with exceeding joy, in the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ," Jude 1:24

Quote:

"The truth for this time is precious, but those whose hearts have not been broken by falling on the rock Christ Jesus, will not see and understand what is truth." Selected Messages Book 2, p. 389.1

It's actually pretty easy to know what the "straight testimony" is - it is exactly what our early SDA pioneers believed for the time period 1844-1894!

Quote:

“Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for THE faith which was once delivered unto the saints…” (Jude 3, 4) …The exhortation to contend for the faith delivered to the saints, is to us alone. And it is very important for us to KNOW what for and HOW to contend. In the 4th verse he gives us the reason why we should contend for THE faith, a particular faith; “for there are certain men,” or a certain class who deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.… The way spiritualizers have disposed of or denied the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ is first using the old unscriptural Trinitarian creed, viz., that Jesus Christ is the eternal God, though they have not one passage to support it, while we have plain scripture testimony in abundance that he is the Son of the eternal God.” (James White, January 24, 1846, The Day Star)

Did you know Ellen White said James S. White was a type of Modern Moses for Spiritual Israel of God in these last days...?

His lips are silent, but his voice yet speaks.

WE ARE WELL ABLE TO GO UP AND POSSESS HEAVENLY CANNAN

December 10, 1871,"I was shown that his (James White's) relation to the people of God was similar, in some respects, to that of Moses to Israel." Testimonies for the Church Volume 3, Page 85.

The straight testimony IS the 3 angel's messages.

Here is the three angels messages summarized:\

1st Angel's message: Worship God ONLY for the Hour of His Judgement is come.

2nd Angel's message: Keep all Ten of God's commandments.

3rd Angel's Message: Come OUT of ALL churches MY PEOPLE.

Her=church - either pure or a harlot "church" or "fleshy vessel body" either believes pure doctrines or mixes truth with error = harlot "vessel/fleshy body/church"

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (KJV) Revelation 18:4. AMP version: "I then heard another voice from heaven saying, Come out from her, my people, so that you may not share in her sins, neither participate in her plagues."

In the Bible "HER" represents either a pure or harlot church (our fleshy bodies are the true/pure "church" or can be a harlot/apostate false doctrine believing temple/church made without hands). People form or make up either a true pure church or a false/harlot church.

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple (church/sanctuary) of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" --1 Corinthians 6:19 Mark 14:58 Amplified Bible "We heard Him say, I will destroy this temple (sanctuary/church) which is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, made without hands."

• Woman, Pure = True Church Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27

97:• Woman, Corrupt = Apostate/harlot church Ezk. 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hos. 2:5; 3:1; Rev. 14:4, Rev 17:5.

Quote:

"It is these who have not defiled themselves with women (harlot women=non-commandment obeying churches), for they are virgins. (Keep their self chaste unto God & His Son Jesus) It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb." Revelation 14:4 ESV

Quote:

"If any man defile the temple of God (our bodies), him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." 1 Corinthians 3:17 (KJV)

Quote:

"Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 10:31

Jesus says, My sheep know my voice and follow me.

This is how I understand the straight testimony of Jesus Christ - it is those who obey him in all things and do not reject what he wants us to do -

May God and His Son bless and give us all the strength and power to those who want to make it to Heaven.

Cindy

[John317]

.... Back to the shaking:

"The people of God are represented in the message.... [3T 252]

As long as you are going to quote Ellen G. White about the shaking, you might as well take into consideration everything she says about it. She doesn't say there's only one cause of the shaking.

[Robert]

"it (the shaking) would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans."

When you read what the True Witness has to say to the church of Laodicea you will see the issue is just what Ellen White concluded:

Self-righteousness is not the wedding garment. A failure to follow the clear light of truth is our fearful danger. The message to the Laodicean church reveals our condition as a people. [RH 12-15-1904]