Q.E.D. Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Did this valiant WWII veteran violate the 6th Commandment? 92 Year Old Shoots Intruder What would you have done? What Would Jesus do? Make My Day. . . Q.E.D. Quote Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Gibs Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 I say the man was in his rights, expecially at 92 yrs and very fragile and no match at all for a younger man. He had a right to an evener and to use it! Mt 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. Lu 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: The Words of our Lord! I also have an "evener", very handy and yes I would use it on a break in, it is my Right! 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 Mt 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.Lu 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: Context, Gibs, context: 22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?" 24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons." 25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 "Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house. 30 "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Christ's isn't advocating self-defense. That's not the context. Jesus said "love your enemies" - not murder them. Did Jesus obey "you shall love your enemies"? Yes. Where? All through His life, but especially at the cross. Before the cross Christ and His Father were One. He drew much comfort from His Father. Christ was also depending on His Father for the resurrection. But at the cross God abandoned Christ. That's why He cried out "My Father, My Father, why have you forsaken Me?" Do you know what that meant to Christ? No hope of a resurrection or goodbye to life forever so that His enemies could have heaven in His place. That's agape love. No 2nd amendment rights; no Kung Fu lessons - no returning evil for evil...instead love. What we do is because of self-love. We want to live, so we kill. It's be killed or kill. That's not of God, that's of Lucifer. He is the source of our bent-to-self. The last generation of Christians (the remnant) will "love not their lives even unto death". Like their master they will be willing to give up eternal life forever so that their enemies might take their place. These are the ones spoken of by the prophet John when He stated, "here are they that keep the commandments".... Quote
Gibs Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 I see Robert old and weak and barely able to go let someone break in and not do a thing and allow him to do his will with his family and possesions. The possseions would not matter so much but when molesting one of yours and you in position to stop them and do nothing, an evener in your hand and not use it?. A man who would not protect his own life isn't so bad but when he wouldn't die first in behalf of his loved ones of his own and those in his house that is not good. Will God do for you what you are able to do for yourself? And again, Lu 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 I see Robert, old and weak and barely able to go let someone break in and not do a thing and allow him to do his will with his family and possesions. The possseions would not matter so much but when molesting one of yours and you in position to stop them and do nothing, an evener in your hand and not use it?. 1] They did a lot worse to Christ and He never fought back. He was willing to die for eternity rather than hurt those murdering Him. Did you get that? 2] How many billions have died and God did not intervene? Yes? Keep in mind Christ came to save us from the 2nd death, not the first. Quote
Robert Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 And again, Lu 11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: And again, that's taken out of context! Nowhere do you find that Christ says to arm ourselves. Look, if God wants to intervene He will. If you want to use Smith & Wesson, well, that's not God's method. The Jews tried to stone Christ many times, but "His time had not yet come". God never used violence to keep Him out of harm's way. Think on that. Quote
Gibs Posted September 4, 2012 Posted September 4, 2012 He died Robert to save us, His friends who are of His House, the Kingdom of God. Those who will be His of the first resurrection. His lambs and they have followed Him and gone where He leads them. Those who murdered him who knew what they were doing He will take care of and it will be a little more than a thousand yrs but He will give them their due, be assured. There is some that knew not what they were doing and some may have fully repented and received pardon for all we know. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 He died Robert to save us, His friends who are of His House... Quote
Robert Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 No, Gibs, He died for His enemies. His friends had forsaken Him. Rom 5:7 Very rarely will anyone die for a just man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own (agape) love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10... when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, Eph 2:4 But because of his great (agape) love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. Quote
Gibs Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Yes while we were yet sinners He died for us and we can elect to be of Him and, Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. His perfect foreknowledge He wrote the book of life before the foundation of the world and was sealed with seven seals, hasn't been unsealed yet, all names are in in it but many are blotted out. It is finally opened, - - Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. He has known from the beginning who His friends are. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Yes while we were yet sinners He died for us More than that, our old life died in Him. Hence by Christ's doing and dying all men have been saved.....The whole human race was (past tense) reconciled to God in Christ Jesus. Quote
M. T. Cross Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Did this valiant WWII veteran violate the 6th Commandment? 92 Year Old Shoots Intruder What would you have done? What Would Jesus do? Make My Day. . . Q.E.D. I say good on the old guy. We don't have a law like the "castle law" here in BC but you can count on the fact that anyone breaking into my home would meet some deadly force. What would Jesus do? I can't say. Its one of those weird questions when it comes to Jesus because the life he led is so much different than the life most of us lead. That I know of there is no record of him owning a home, he did not hold a job that he worked all his life to pay for that home and he never had a wife and kids to protect. Given his "rightous" anger at the trading going on in his fathers house I can only think that he would have kicked some serious backside if someone had threatened his home and family if he had one. Thats all I have to say, I now return you to the Robert and Gibs show Quote
Robert Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Given his "rightous" anger at the trading going on in his fathers house I can only think that he would have kicked some serious backside if someone had threatened his home and family if he had one. John 2:13 It was almost time for the Passover Festival, so Jesus went to Jerusalem. 14 There in the Temple he found people selling cattle, sheep, and pigeons, and also the moneychangers sitting at their tables. (They were practicing Capitalism) 15 So he made a whip from cords and drove all the animals out of the Temple, both the sheep and the cattle; he overturned the tables of the moneychangers and scattered their coins; 16 and he ordered those who sold the pigeons, "Take them out of here! Stop making my Father's house a marketplace!" He made the whip to drive out the animals. He never hit a human being. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted September 5, 2012 Moderators Posted September 5, 2012 NIV84 | Ex 22:2“If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed. Quote
Gibs Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Right on Gerry, that's when the rascals work in the dark, don't want to be seen of anyone and none know who is seeing. But none of us have night vision but some do have those expensive scopes etc. but usually not watching a neighborhood. We have had at least 3 three break ins within a half mile of me here and so have tightened up security here. He is there to awaken and alert but we are to do our part. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
doug yowell Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 NIV84 | Ex 22:2 “If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed. Great post,Gerry!! Nail on the head!! Quote
Q.E.D. Posted September 5, 2012 Author Posted September 5, 2012 NIV84 | Ex 22:2 “If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed. Q.E.D. Quote Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie.
Nic Samojluk Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 We are wondering what our duty is when the question is self defense. How about when neither our life nor the life of our loved ones is at risk? I am thinking about the pregnant woman who chooses to kill her unborn baby with the support of the church to protect her lifestyle? Quote
OzarkWoman Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Did this valiant WWII veteran violate the 6th Commandment? 92 Year Old Shoots Intruder What would you have done? What Would Jesus do? Make My Day. . . Q.E.D. The actual commandement is "Thou Shalt Not MURDER." There is a huge difference and YES, the man was completely within his rights as an American and as a child of God. Quote
Gibs Posted September 5, 2012 Posted September 5, 2012 Nic, The baby now needs a 45 Auto in his hand made to fit his baby fingers and be able to shoot back these days. That may lessen the illegal killing. That'd make Mom take heed too! Truly the practice makes me sick. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Robert Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 NIV84 | Ex 22:2“If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens after sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed. And you also have, Deut 21:18 (since you are quoting from the book of the law) "Suppose someone has a son who is stubborn and rebellious, a son who will not obey his parents, even though they punish him. 19 His parents are to take him before the leaders of the town where he lives and make him stand trial. 20 They are to say to them, "Our son is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey us; he wastes money and is a drunkard.' 21 Then the men of the city are to stone him to death, and so you will get rid of this evil. Everyone in Israel will hear what has happened and be afraid. So, if under the book the law it is okay to kill a thief, it is equally okay to stone your son to death if he refuses to obey and be a drunkard. Quote
Robert Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Lev 20:14 If a man marries a woman and her mother (nothing about sex, just if he marries), all three shall be burned to death because of the disgraceful thing they have done; such a thing must not be permitted among you. Again, more rules from the book of the law. You practice one, practice them all. Quote
Robert Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I am thinking about the pregnant woman who chooses to kill her unborn baby with the support of the church to protect her lifestyle? According to the book of the law she should be stoned to death. So, if you are going to defend yourself & your neighbors' rights (from the book of the law's view point) go down to your local abortion clinic and use your second amendment rights! Protection your innocent neighbors (the unborn). So you guys pick and chose....If you are going to accept the rule you can kill someone breaking into your home at night, then you must accept all the rules in the book of the law. If you pick and chose you are playing to hypocrite. Either keep all the rules or none of them! Quote
Robert Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Deut 19:21 show no mercy; the punishment is to be a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, and a foot for a foot. Matt 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.....43 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies.... Quote
Robert Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 The actual commandement is "Thou Shalt Not MURDER." There is a huge difference .... Nonsense! Look at Christ's life because He fulfilled the law. Look how He treated His enemies. He is your example: 1 Peter 2:21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. 22 "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth." 23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats... Now, here's how your version would probably go: "when he suffered, he [shot them directly in the head with a 9mm] Quote
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