Thou Shalt Not Kill?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

So love does not protect? Love just watches its loved ones raped and pillaged?

Hebrews 11:25 Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37 They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated-- 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 39 These were all commended for their faith....

Did God just watch?

When it suits His purpose He does. But He also protects. Look at the story in Gen 20. Abimelech takes Sarah to be a concubine because Abraham let be known that she was his sister. God appears to Abimelech in a dream and tells him, "Behold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife." Without God's protection, David would have been a dead man many times over.

Is that protection? Is that using coercion or using force to protect? It's one thing to not retaliate or protect yourself, but you'd be a lousy human being IMO if you don't do anything to protect your family if it's within your power.

[Robert]

When it suits His purpose He does.

Then, yes, Love just watches its loved ones raped and pillaged!

[Gerr]

But He also protects! When He does not, He sees a bigger picture that we can't see.

[Guest]

When it suits His purpose He does. But He also protects. Look at the story in Gen 20. Abimelech takes Sarah to be a concubine because Abraham let be known that she was his sister. God appears to Abimelech in a dream and tells him, "Behold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife." Without God's protection, David would have been a dead man many times over.

Is that protection? Is that using coercion or using force to protect? It's one thing to not retaliate or protect yourself, but you'd be a lousy human being IMO if you don't do anything to protect your family if it's within your power.

Amen.

[Robert]

But He also protects!

And viewing Christ's life is the best way to see how the Father protects:

John 8:9 Then they (the Pharisees) asked him (Jesus), "Where is your father?" "You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." 20 He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

John 10:30 (Jesus:) I and the Father are one." 31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, ... 33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." ... 39 Again they tried to seize him (Jesus), but he escaped their grasp.

Did He use kung fu? Did He have Smith & Wesson with Him? No! Did He kill any of them? No, yet God protected Jesus because "His time had not yet come".

Keep in mind God's ways are not our ways. Our ways are violent. We like to shoot things!

Romans 3:15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know."

[Robert]

Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

Now let's see what happens when God retreats (doesn't protect):

He (Jesus) knelt down and prayed, (Luke 22:42) saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will (my human will), but Yours, be done." ....

What was God's will? Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith , Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me.

Jesus came to save the human race from under the curse of the law. To do this Christ had to assume you and meet the demands of the law. In Him you obeyed and in Him you had to take the curse of the law. So in order to save you God had to abandon Christ because our humanity was in Him.

44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly.....52 Then Jesus said to the chief priests, captains of the temple, and the elders who had come to Him, "Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs? 53 When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness." 54 Having arrested Him, they led Him and brought Him into the high priest's house.

Before this they couldn't touch Jesus because "His time had not yet come".

So you guys buy all the guns you want...take up kung fu too, but in reality none of these things will save you when God retreats. But until then nobody can touch you because God is with you. When your time comes God will use it for good. He will use it to save others - to bring them to Christ.

[Gibs]

Robert, you would still protect your wife and children even at the cost of your life there is no doubt in my mind if the need arose. I hope it doesn't.

The Lord of Life also came into the upper room when the doors and windows were locked and He didn't bust in either.

When He don't choose to do the miraculous in your case don't you think you might ought to act in your own behalf and interest? It is said any ways, "God helps them that help themselves", not those who won't lift a finger.

He will of course if your cause is righteous help.

2Ch 32:8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

So you guys buy all the guns you want...take up kung fu too, but in reality none of these things will save you when God retreats.

Rev 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth (human strife), that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascend from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God upon their foreheads."

In other words God is holding back the winds of human strife until His bride, the church, faith is unshakable.

When the bride is ready God will remove Himself and the four winds will blow. During this time (the tribulation) God's people will fully reflect Christ (but they will not realize it). During this time the self-emptying agape love of God will be seen. They won't retaliate...they won't blow their enemies away...instead it is stated "they love not their lives even unto death".

Like Christ they are willing to say goodbye to life forever so their enemies can take their place.

[Robert]

"God helps them that help themselves"

Really? In that case Jesus should have carried a sword....He could have fought back. That's being self-reliant! Instead He depended on the Father.

Let's do it God's way and not our way. Our way is violence.

[Robert]

Where did Israel first obtain weapons? God had not so equipped them, according to the record. If they chose to be a military nation in spite of God's wish to protect them in His own way, would He not then have rejected them? Do we have a Biblical example showing what God might do under such circumstances?

It takes little thought to find such an example in the later history of the nation. Although God never intended Israel to have a visible king, He did not reject them when they claimed one. And their motive for this perfidy? "That we may be like all the nations" (1 Samuel 8:19). God warned them of the results of their choice, but He did not reject them for it. Did they, early on, desire to wage war "like" the Egyptians?

But in the case of their choosing a king, God expressed His disapproval. Do we have a Biblical example where humans defied God's ideal will without His expressing disapproval and also without rejecting them for it? Yes. In their practice of slavery and polygamy, which most Christians now agree were not in God's original plan.

Polygamy was so common among God's people in the Old Testament, examples need not be cited. Again, they thought to be "like" the surrounding nations, even though they knew God's perfect will for monogamous marriage had been beautifully expressed in the beginning (Genesis 2:20-24). But they chose to focus on their visible neighbors rather than on the invisible God, and beholding changed them into the same image (2 Corinthians 3:18). But nowhere do we find God railing against polygamy, although Christians today, with few exceptions, see the wrong of it.

[Gibs]

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

You want to be careful Robert as you see you don't have power to take up your life as Christ did. However if you being righteous you need not worry as all that could happen you just took the sleep early that Jesus speaks of as the death of our present life.

Would God deliver an unrighteous man? I doubt it!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

"God helps them that help themselves"

Really? In that case Jesus should have carried a sword....He could have fought back. That's being self-reliant! Instead He depended on the Father.

Let's do it God's way and not our way. Our way is violence.

Maybe that was because that was his purpose in being here? The rest of us are not a "Saviour" here to save all of mankind. We are here to live life, take care of our family, find love, and to survive.

Personally I think that if you were to sit by and let your family be hurt your God would be disgusted with you. Family is the greatest gift one can have in life and there are so very many ways that you can lose them that are completely out of your control. If there is anything at all one can do to protect them they better be doing it.

[Robert]

...you see you don't have power to take up your life as Christ did.

"He who had said, 'I lay down my life, that I might take it again,' came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Humanity died: divinity did not die. In His divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death." (The Faith I Live By, page 51, paragraph 3.)

You must remember that in His humanity He was fully depending on the Father for the resurrection. His deity never died - humanity died.

I have the same promise - the resurrection. So if you kill me, I take a nap. Big deal....

[Robert]

We are here to live life, take care of our family, find love, and to survive.

Really? We are sinners in a sinful world bent to self. If God didn't intervene we would all kills ourselves.

We live in a world dominated by the evil one. He, according to both Paul & Christ, is the lord of this world. Lucifer's principle is seen in every thing. Hence, Christians are in enemy territory.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

We are here to live life, take care of our family, find love, and to survive.

Really?

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

...you see you don't have power to take up your life as Christ did.

"He who had said, 'I lay down my life, that I might take it again,' came forth from the grave to life that was in Himself. Humanity died: divinity did not die. In His divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death." (The Faith I Live By, page 51, paragraph 3.)

You must remember that in His humanity He was fully depending on the Father for the resurrection. His deity never died - humanity died.

I have the same promise - the resurrection. So if you kill me, I take a nap. Big deal....

If His deity did not die, then how could have Christ have laid down his immortal life that He might take it again?

"In Him was life; and the life was the light of men." It is not physical life that is here specified, but eternal life, the life which is exclusively the property of God. The Word, who was with God, and who was God, had this life. Physical life is something which each individual received. It is not eternal or immortal; for God, the Lifegiver, takes it again. Man has no control over his life. But the life of Christ was unborrowed. No one can take this life from Him. "I lay it down of myself," He said. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can possess it only through Christ. He cannot earn it; it is given him as a free gift if he will believe in Christ as his personal Saviour. "This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3. This is the open fountain of life for the world (ST Feb. 13, 1912).

[Gibs]

Not speaking for EC here as he has a different venue, position of seeing

Yes and the Holy Spirit is being withdrawn from men and soon there is going to be a killing free for all. Not just millions as up through the dark ages but billions is what it will be. The winds of strife are beginning to blow now and very soon not much pleasent will be found. We have not yet seen the full fierceness of what the evil ones of men and Satan have in store.

But it has to be as evil must show it's ugly head to just what depths it will go that all Gods True ones will never go into rebellion and sin against Him ever again. But the time is over that salvation can be had when it is come to the place all men are finally brought to see the horrible culmination of it.

Today is the dsy of salvation, get the house cleaned out now, hard and fast.

All must be overcomers, no exceptions.

Don't worry there Robert, they are soon going to take away all guns from the righteous and then only outlaws will have guns. And who do you think takes away the guns from the law abiding, why your unrighteous governments of the evil world of whom Satan is their master.

Who is ready? Only he who is under the cover of His Pavilion, THE OVERCOMER!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

So God does intervene and protect us then? That is contrary to your earlier posts where you state that he stands by and watches.

No, you misunderstood. To some He stands by and watches, that's not what I believe.

Christ came to save us from the 2nd death, not the first.

[Robert]

If His deity did not die, then how could have Christ have laid down his immortal life that He might take it again?

Deity can't die....It's impossible. If deity could die all of us would cease to exist. We all have our being because God lives.

Sin brings death. If God cold die then He would have sin in Him.

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

If His deity did not die, then how could have Christ have laid down his immortal life that He might take it again?

Deity can't die....It's impossible. If deity could die all of us would cease to exist. We all have our being because God lives.

Sin brings death. If God cold die then He would have sin in Him.

When Christ died "humanity" did not die, but the human Christ died. If humanity died then there would have been no human to take his body off the cross and lay it in Joseph's tomb.

Did the divine Christ have life and intelligence? If you say yes then the divine Christ slept in the sepulcher with the body.

Jesus said to Mary, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father." When he closed his eyes in death upon the cross, the soul of Christ did not go at once to Heaven, as many believe, or how could his words be true--"I am not yet ascended to my Father"? The spirit of Jesus slept in the tomb with his body, and did not wing its way to Heaven, there to maintain a separate existence, and to look down upon the mourning disciples embalming the body from which it had taken flight. All that comprised the life and intelligence of Jesus remained with his body in the sepulcher; and when he came forth it was as a whole being; he did not have to summon his spirit from Heaven. He had power to lay down his life and to take it up again. {3SP 203.2}

[Robert]

Don't worry there Robert, they are soon going to take away all guns from the righteous and then only outlaws will have guns.

Good....Then we can see Christ sooner....

[Robert]

When Christ died "humanity" did not die, but the human Christ died. If humanity died then there would have been no human to take his body off the cross and lay it in Joseph's tomb.

From where did you receive your humanity?

[Gibs]

Amen and may we all be ready!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

When Christ died "humanity" did not die, but the human Christ died. If humanity died then there would have been no human to take his body off the cross and lay it in Joseph's tomb.

From where did you receive your humanity?

My humanity came from Adam who God formed out of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.

[Robert]

From where did you receive your humanity?

As a matter of fact where did Eve receive her humanity?

Gen 2:21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

Eve came from Adam. In fact the whole human race came from one man, Adam:

Acts 17:26 And He (God) has made from one (Adam) every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth....

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man [Adam] sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned (in Adam)

So you received your life from father Adam. You belong to a lost, fallen race. Hence "in Adam all die" (1 Cor 15:22)