Should a Pastor voice his political opinion?

[olger]

Originally Posted By: dgrimm60

WOODY

the pastor should not voice his political view

from the pulpit ----period end of subject

dgrimm60

How about the church bulletin?

The problem I see is that there is no way to impose such restriction on all churches in a balanced and objective manner.

Black pastors will never agree to avoid mixing politics with religion. This is in their blood.

Consequently, if the government has no way to silence black preachers, then it is unfair to impose such restriction on non-black pastors.

True. We went to a black SDA church in Elkhart, IN. Sang there. During the sermon, the pastor plugged affirmative action big time.

[Nic Samojluk]

Quote:

Black pastors will never agree to avoid mixing politics with religion. This is in their blood.

Wow!! Are you black! Do you speak for all black pastors?

Ridiculous statement!!

Good point! I should have said "many black pastors," or perhaps "some black pastors like Obama's pastor."

[JoeMo]

IMO, this question can't be answered with a simple yes or no.

Is the pastor telling you from the pulpit who to vote for or what laws to support? That should not be allowed; and I believe pastors who do that are unwittingly feeding the flames of those who would remove the church's tax-free status.

Is the pastor promoting legislation from the pulpit that would empower the government to enforce Judeo-Chritian morality (e.g., anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage)? That should not be allowed. In that case the church is admitting defeat in the commission given to it by Christ; and empowering the end-time beast/antichrist (i.e., the formal marriage of church and state).

Should a pastor be allowed to preach on moral principles that may influence someone's political direction? If the moral principle is the subject of the sermon and not just "proof-texts" of the legitimacy of the pastors political sermon subject, Sure! Preach away!

When a pastor representing himself (not his congregation) on FB or CA or LI, he has the same rights as any other person on that board; he should be able to express his heart.

My answers are general and probably over-simplistic; and I'm sure someone will come up with a questions like "Oh yeah? well what if that person in Billy or Franklin Graham, or Rick Warren or the GC President?" I'm talking about most pastors - not world class religious celebrity leadership.

[lazarus]

True. We went to a black SDA church in Elkhart, IN. Sang there. During the sermon, the pastor plugged affirmative action big time.

LOl, I guess you mean he spoke favorably of black people.

African-Americans were rejected by white churches and were criticized for their efforts to secure justice by white pastors. Black preachers were the leaders in their communities and had to address a range of issues that white preachers did not have to or indeed didn't want to.

Preaching Biblically often has a political impact.

[lazarus]

Should a pastor be allowed to preach on moral principles that may influence someone's political direction? If the moral principle is the subject of the sermon and not just "proof-texts" of the legitimacy of the pastors political sermon subject, Sure! Preach away!

When a pastor representing himself (not his congregation) on FB or CA or LI, he has the same rights as any other person on that board; he should be able to express his heart.

[Woody]

Quote:

True. We went to a black SDA church in Elkhart, IN. Sang there. During the sermon, the pastor plugged affirmative action big time.

This should never happen. We have enough politics all around us. After all - if you want politics you and you know about it - you can find the political forum here. Politics is on the news . It is everywhere. But it does not need to be in church - nor should it be.

WE need to stop the political divide. We need to unite. I would like to think the pastor could share his political bent but this is not reality. Reality is that he speaks for God to some people and this is not just when he is in the pulpit . It means on Facebook also. A pastor needs to realize the influence and power that he holds.

[lazarus]

The sermon which I am preaching this morning in a sense is not the usual kind of sermon, but it is a sermon and an important subject, nevertheless, because the issue that I will be discussing today is one of the most controversial issues confronting our nation. I'm using as a subject from which to preach, "Why I Am Opposed to the War in Vietnam."

Now, let me make it clear in the beginning, that I see this war as an unjust, evil, and futile war. I preach to you today on the war in Vietnam because my conscience leaves me with no other choice. The time has come for America to hear the truth about this tragic war. In international conflicts, the truth is hard to come by because most nations are deceived about themselves. Rationalizations and the incessant search for scapegoats are the psychological cataracts that blind us to our sins. But the day has passed for superficial patriotism. He who lives with untruth lives in spiritual slavery. Freedom is still the bonus we receive for knowing the truth. "Ye shall know the truth," says Jesus, "and the truth shall set you free." Now, I've chosen to preach about the war in Vietnam because I agree with Dante, that the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in a period of moral crisis maintain their neutrality. There comes a time when silence becomes betrayal.

MLK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b80Bsw0UG-U

[CoAspen]

Hmm....Interesting point of view......

Quote:

moral crisis maintain their neutrality. There comes a time when silence becomes betrayal.

I suspect some will say that presenting such a 'talk' is okay at any time other than from the pulpit during 'sermon' time.

And the responses are.......

[Woody]

Huge assumptions being made here.

Usually what is spewed out is just pure politics at it's worst. Truth is relative. Yeah - I am sure that you feel all that spews out of your mouth it truth. But instead - in my view - it is just opinion that is oblivious to the points of the 'other' side.

[CoAspen]

I wish we knew what you are trying to say....

Quote:

Usually what is spewed out is just pure politics at it's worst.

especially in light of your unrelenting verbage on the subject of political opinions. I thought the quote from the sermon was thought provoking and worth talking about. So tell us, your thought are.............

[Enabled]

I believe E.G. White says it as well as I might so for what its worth:

Quote:

Those who have charge of our institutions and our schools should guard themselves diligently, lest by their words and sentiments they lead the students into false paths. Those who teach the Bible in our churches and in our schools are not at liberty to unite in making apparent their prejudices for or against political men or measures, because by so doing they stir up the minds of others, leading each to advocate his favorite theory. There are among those professing to believe present truth some who will thus be stirred up to express their sentiments and political preferences, so that division will be brought into the church.

a little more:

Quote:

The Lord would have His people bury political questions. On these themes silence is eloquence. Christ calls upon His followers to come into unity on the pure gospel principles which are plainly revealed in the word of God. We cannot with safety vote for political parties; for we do not know whom we are voting for. We cannot with safety take part in any political schemes. We cannot labor to please men who will use their influence to repress religious liberty, and to set in operation oppressive measures to lead or compel their fellow men to keep Sunday as the Sabbath. The first day of the week is not a day to be reverenced. It is a spurious sabbath, and the members of the Lord’s family cannot participate with the men who exalt this day, and violate the law of God by trampling upon His Sabbath. The people of God are not to vote to place such men in office; for when they do this, they are partakers with them of the sins which they commit while in office.

The rest of the article can be read on Education 475-476

Enabled

[lazarus]

Adventists have typically remained neutral in times of moral crisis. Neutrality often benefits the side of oppression as we saw in Nazi Germany.

The silence of SDA's in that situation was indeed betrayal.

German and Austrian SDA's later apologized.

[Nic Samojluk]

Is the pastor promoting legislation from the pulpit that would empower the government to enforce Judeo-Chritian morality (e.g., anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage)? That should not be allowed.

We do know that Obama, when he was a Senator in his own State, supported infanticide. Suppose he tries the same as president and infanticide becomes a political issue. Would it be wrong for a pastor to preach against infanticide?

Should the fact that an issue has become part of the political discourse muzzle the preaching of the Gospel? When a country decides to engage in a war in order to conquer foreigh territory, would it be wrong for the pastor to preach against killing for political gain?

Was it wrong for John the Baptist to preach against adultery and warning Herod that he was sinning against God by living with his brother's wife?

Was it wrong for Peter to disobey the Jewish leaders political decision that it was illegal to preach about Jesus?

Why do you think that preaching about the Sixth Commandment is wrong when this is connected with abortion? Isn't the duty of the government to protect all human beings, including the unborn?

[JoeMo]

Nic, going point by point:

"We do know that Obama, when he was a Senator in his own State, supported infanticide. Suppose he tries the same as president and infanticide becomes a political issue. Would it be wrong for a pastor to preach against infanticide?"

Answer: No, as long as he was talking about the morality surrounding the 6th commandement rather than specific proposed legislation.

"Should the fact that an issue has become part of the political discourse muzzle the preaching of the Gospel? When a country decides to engage in a war in order to conquer foreigh territory, would it be wrong for the pastor to preach against killing for political gain?"

Answer: No, as long as he was talking about the morality surrounding the 6th commandement rather than openly lobbying against the government and unwittingly putting his entire congregation in peril.

"Was it wrong for John the Baptist to preach against adultery and warning Herod that he was sinning against God by living with his brother's wife?"

Answer: No; but John was what we would call today an "independent ministry" (lone voice crying in the wilderness?); not a denomination. I see what It got him ...

"Was it wrong for Peter to disobey the Jewish leaders political decision that it was illegal to preach about Jesus?"

Answer: No; but he was disobeying denominational leadership, not lobbying for political activism.. How often did Jesus preach against Rome?

"Why do you think that preaching about the Sixth Commandment is wrong when this is connected with abortion? Isn't the duty of the government to protect all human beings, including the unborn?"

Answer: I'm not against preaching about the 6th Commandment; I'm agaist exorting people to lobby for reversal of Roe v. Wade from the pulput. If we spent our time getting people to embrace Jesus and His principles, abortion might just go away by the power of the Holy Spirit. When the church lobbies to legislate morality, they admit that the church has failed in carrying out the Great Commission; and is facilitating the advent of the Antichrist (marriage of Church and State).

[olger]

Infanticide will incur the fury of the Lord one day, and it won't be pretty.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

True. We went to a black SDA church in Elkhart, IN. Sang there. During the sermon, the pastor plugged affirmative action big time.

LOl, I guess you mean he spoke favorably of black people.

Incorrect. He mentioned affirmative action in the sermon, lauded it.

My oldest son and I exchanged a glance at that. No words necessary. Still and all, we had a good time, and made several friends.

[phkrause]

Infanticide will incur the fury of the Lord one day, and it won't be pretty.

All sin will incur the fury of the Lord one day, not just one.

[skyblue888]

What is the fury of the Lord?

[bonnie]

All sin will incur the fury of the Lord one day, not just one.

Then should we just turn our backs on the issue of infanticide?

You can do little about the sin your neighbor commits so should we approve or make legal infanticide?

[JoeMo]

What is "infantacide"? Is it another word for abortion, or is it the murder of babies already born? If it is the latter, I have a very difficult time believing that anyone would pass a law allowing that! But what do I know? Why would a pastor even need to preach against an atrocity like that? People who support something that twisted wouldn't even be in church. It's downright satanic!

On the other hand, if it is simply an emotionally charged word for abortion, that's already legal; and IMO there is no need to lobby against it from the pulpit. As I said previously, if you are against abortion, it's not a good idea for you to get one. Do you honestly think that outlawing abortions will stop women intent on getting them from doing so? There's always Canada and Mexico; and "shady" people who will perform them anyhow. There will always be a market for a "product" that people desire.

Don't go accusing me of supporting abortion - I don't! But I'm not a woman or God, either; so I'm not really qualified to judge. I'm just saying that political lobbying on any subject does NOT belong in the pulpit at church - regardless of the topic.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

What is the fury of the Lord?

Good question, Sky!

[jasd]

>>not at liberty to unite in making apparent their prejudices for or against political men or measures, […] leading each to advocate his favorite theory.<<

Re the good woman: disabuse me should I err, but did she not advocate in favor of and indeed involved herself in the ‘Prohibition Wars’?

>>openly lobbying against the government and unwittingly putting his entire congregation in peril.<<

Re peril: it used to be that the individual constituents of an incorporated body were sheltered re asset confiscation should the Corporation be sued at law and lose. That is no longer the case as precedent exists in case law wherein a Corporation sued and having insufficient assets to satisfy judgment – the plaintiff is empowered to seek satisfaction from the members of the .Org – reason to have your name removed from the .Org’s rolls. [/extemporizing]

Sadly, the primary reason .org’s register to obtain a 501©3 status is for tax purposes, which rights are organically guaranteed to churches anyway. The matter becomes fuzzy when the church owns businesses as shoe factories, strip malls, cruise ships, prisons, etc.

Given the .org’s venality, it is of course, verboten that the .org involves itself in political advocacy – from the pulpit or leadership.

[bonnie]

What is "infantacide"? Is it another word for abortion, or is it the murder of babies already born? If it is the latter, I have a very difficult time believing that anyone would pass a law allowing that! But what do I know? Why would a pastor even need to preach against an atrocity like that? People who support something that twisted wouldn't even be in church. It's downright satanic!

[jasd]

>>Yet that same baby could have been pulled from me up to his neck,killed and then allowed to be born.Until the head is born it is not considered a live birth<<

Yes, there is the late-term abortion by induced labor which often leaves the aborted child still viable; however, re partial-birth abortion – what many are unaware of is that the practicing abortionist inserts a sharp object (usually scissors) into the back of the child's skull and enlarges the wound to provide entry for the insertion of a suctioning tube – which vacuums the brain out - as so much garbage for the dump in the back alley (this method of abortion was finally outlawed in ’07). As some would have it: "It was Bush's fault."

Then there is the “Dilation and Evacuation (D&E): Sharp-edged instruments are used to grasp, twist and tear the baby’s body into pieces, which are then removed from the womb.”

And then…, “Saline abortion: Salt water is injected into the womb through the mother’s abdomen. The unborn baby swallows this fluid, is poisoned and dies in a process that sometimes takes 24 hours. The toxic saline solution causes severe burns over the unborn child’s entire body.” [ed.jasd]

These are babies who, for a large part, are more than 20 weeks old at the time of abortion – a time (and possibly earlier – 17 weeks) when their sensory system is so advanced that when a single human hair is drawn across their palm – they clench their fist to grasp the hair. YET!—there are only five States where the abortionist is obliged to inform the ‘mother’ that the fetus/child may feel pain… In other words, the abortion performs one of his/her procedures upon the child without benefit of analgesia. Can one imagine how dreadfully, dreadfully, and excruciatingly PAINFUL are the senses of an aborted child experiencing?

Fetal pain exists.

““Unborn babies at 20 weeks development actually feel pain more intensely than adults. This is a “uniquely vulnerable time, since the pain system is fully established, yet the higher level pain-modifying system has barely begun to develop”” [ed.jasd]

Yumpin’ jiminy!—and your Pastor doesn’t say a word to his congregation, nor does he pro-actively become involved? ABORT him or her – and hire a Pastor who eschews lukewarmness and who will voice concerns re at least the least amongst us – the innocent, the very, very young.

A rather famous person, whilst State Senator of Illinois, used these words, “that fetus, or child — however you want to describe it” - when describing such as those infants deposited in the utility rooms of hospitals providing abortions – where the mops and buckets and other sundry stuff – filthy or otherwise, were kept – and there laid on a shelf to die without at least the comfort aid of a simple rag to wrap its dying form - it too being a ‘bitter clinger’ – though not of guns or religion, but of LIFE!—oh! the numbing sadness…

…Abominable practice!—and yet, have you ever heard the one who pastors your soul speak out against this most abominable of wicked practices? I daresay NO!—for their sermonizing is permitted, sanctioned, and anointed by the State – which will remove their tax exemptions under 501©3.

How any Xtian can abide such an unholy alliance between their church and the State ought to be beyond the very imagination of the truly moral.

There is one with a writer’s inkhorn, who even now, moves among you...

Do you not know that Daniel 7 speaks not of Kingdoms past, but of Corporate entities present and emerging? Afflict your consciences and ready yourselves, for Judgment is descending upon America.

[bonnie]

Yes, there is the late-term abortion by induced labor which often leaves the aborted child still viable; however, re partial-birth abortion – what many are unaware of is that the practicing abortionist inserts a sharp object (usually scissors) into the back of the child's skull and enlarges the wound to provide entry for the insertion of a suctioning tube – which vacuums the brain out - as so much garbage for the dump in the back alley (this method of abortion was finally outlawed in ’07). As some would have it: "It was Bush's fault."