Separate, but United? The Conundrum of Race-based Conferences

[debbym]

Quote:

Which only proves the master deceiver has infiltrated the Christian church.

"No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds."

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 NASB

I think people are vulnerable and in efforts to keep peace, to keep people happy, to smooth out conflict we can unintentionally end up failing to hold the standard high.

Aaron failed, and yielded to the demands of the people. He was keeping peace. But he was not cast off as evil, he was forgiven and placed as the High priest, his position indicated by the budded rod no less.

This area of racism is really big when it comes to something that can create lots of tensions and subtle disharmony. So easily the bitter root grows up.

debbym

[Windsor]

Black and Whites tend to have different worship styles and maintain separate churches for that reason. It's not simply a matter of color. You will see lots of English speaking Asians in so called White churches because their worship style is similar and they adapt more easily to White culture.

[Kountzer]

Black and Whites tend to have different worship styles and maintain separate churches for that reason. It's not simply a matter of color. You will see lots of English speaking Asians in so called White churches because their worship style is similar and they adapt more easily to White culture.

I agree.

[phkrause]

Black and Whites tend to have different worship styles and maintain separate churches for that reason. It's not simply a matter of color. You will see lots of English speaking Asians in so called White churches because their worship style is similar and they adapt more easily to White culture.

I also agree

[Woody]

Black and Whites tend to have different worship styles and maintain separate churches for that reason. It's not simply a matter of color. You will see lots of English speaking Asians in so called White churches because their worship style is similar and they adapt more easily to White culture.

I have no problem with them having separate churches. But to isolate themselves in separate conferences - in my mind - serves no purpose except one of exclusive divisiveness.

[Live4Him]

Well segregation may be a reflection of Ellen White's attitudes on race and gender.

Quote:

"You are the children of God. He has adopted you, and He desires you to form characters here that will give you entrance into the heavenly family. Remembering this, you will be able to bear the trials which you meet here. In heaven there will be no color line; for all will be as white as Christ himself. Let us thank God that we can be members of the royal family."

(The Gospel Herald, March 1, 1901, para. 20)

I thought Jesus had brown skin?

Quote:

"Thus Satan used an unconsecrated woman [Jezebel] to sway the heart of the king, and through the king to cause all Israel to sin. It is a terrible thing to be an instrument in the hands of Satan. Satan chooses women, for he can use them more successfully than he can men." (Manusript Releases, vol. 10 p. 76, Ms. 29, 1911, p. 13. Released by the White Estate Washington, D. C. July 16, 1980)

Quote:

"The Colored People should not urge that they be placed on an equality with White People." Testimonies Vol. 9, page 214, Paragraph 3.

Quote:

We cannot expect that they ... [Colored People] will be as firm and clear in their ideas of morality." Testimonies Vol. 9, page 223 paragraph 3.

Quote:

"The work of proclaiming the truth for this time is not to be hindered by an effort to adjust the position of the Negro race." Testimonies Vol. 9, page 214, paragraph 4.

[lazarus]

Black and Whites tend to have different worship styles and maintain separate churches for that reason. It's not simply a matter of color.

In many instances blacks were prevented and discouraged from going in white churches. Some SDA churches declined membership on the basis of color. Black pastors were not allowed to. Pastor or preach in certain churches. It was on the basis of color.

[Live4Him]

Originally Posted By: Windsor

Black and Whites tend to have different worship styles and maintain separate churches for that reason. It's not simply a matter of color.

In many instances blacks were prevented and discouraged from going in white churches. Some SDA churches declined membership on the basis of color. Black pastors were not allowed to. Pastor or preach in certain churches. It was on the basis of color.

Maybe you can give us some instances from first hand knowledge, with dates and locations? If this is true something needs to be done about if it is reaching these epidemic proportions.

[debbym]

Quote:

Originally Posted By: Windsor

Black and Whites tend to have different worship styles and maintain separate churches for that reason. It's not simply a matter of color.

a difference in worship style can be extremely powerful to those deciding where to worship. cultural bias i believe is far more profound then color bias. color may or may not align with cultural bias. A new pastor in a new church, both same color, because of a cultural difference may be mutually rejecting and have no compatibility. we are vulnerable to this was human beings. It takes surrendering to the the Holy Spirit and recognizing and tuning out the reactions of self and the flesh that makes unity possible. And who are the few that will do this.

[Kountzer]

At one time separate conferences were looked upon by the GC as status quo. It was a matter of who wanted to be separated from whom, or something like that. Now you want to put on a front of 'unity'. Things do not turn around that fast, if at all.

[lazarus]

Maybe you can give us some instances from first hand knowledge, with dates and locations? If this is true something needs to be done about if it is reaching these epidemic proportions.

Something was done, it was called the civil rights movement!

[CoAspen]

[Windsor]

Well from my first hand knowledge of attending churches of both conferences, there are far more blacks in white churches than vice versa.

[Kountzer]

Well from my first hand knowledge of attending churches of both conferences, there are far more blacks in white churches than vice versa.

This is true.

[lazarus]

Well from my first hand knowledge of attending churches of both conferences, there are far more blacks in white churches than vice versa.

That's because black people are ok with worshiping in a majority white situation. Whites are less likely to worship in a majority black church.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Windsor

Well from my first hand knowledge of attending churches of both conferences, there are far more blacks in white churches than vice versa.

That's because black people are ok with worshiping in a majority white situation. Whites are less likely to worship in a majority black church.

I'm in agreement with your post Lazarus. When I lived in NYC, I visited a number of Black Churches, where friends of mine attended. I got a great blessing each time. I know for a fact my Mom and wife would not have, they don't care for the loud preaching, on the other hand I prefer it. I personally don't see a problem with churches of different cultures, races, etc. I believe we should each want to praise the Lord were we feel the most comfortable.

[Woody]

Quote:

I'm in agreement with your post Lazarus. When I lived in NYC, I visited a number of Black Churches, where friends of mine attended. I got a great blessing each time. I know for a fact my Mom and wife would not have, they don't care for the loud preaching, on the other hand I prefer it. I personally don't see a problem with churches of different cultures, races, etc. I believe we should each want to praise the Lord were we feel the most comfortable.

I agree with you pk. However - what we don't need to do is have preferential treatment of one race over another by having Black Conferences.

[Gregory Matthews]

A general comment, not directed to any one post:

I lived in New York City twice, once for three months and once for six months. I made it a practice to attend SDA congregations all over the city. I would often walk through the door dressed in a manner where I appeared to be someone who lived locally and had just walked in by happenstance. I would observe and ask myself the question: Why would I come back to worship at this church again? I have used my experiences in doing that as sermons for congregations to consider how to react to visitors. My challenge in such sermons: Why would someone who walked through the front door of this building come back again? What was it likely they wanted in coming here? Was that need met?

My general observation: The SDA congregations association with the Regional Conference were generally vibrant, thriving meeting the spiritual needs of those who attended. The congregations associated with the other Conference were often not. Yes, there were exceptions.

NOTE: I once lived for three months in the Midwest near a large metropolitan area. I found somewhat the same in that area.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

I agree with you pk. However - what we don't need to do is have preferential treatment of one race over another by having Black Conferences.

I am not certain that I fully understand your point. I would like to have you expand on "preferential treatment."

NOTE: Particularly in the context that Regional Conferences arose in a context where Whites were given preferential treatment.

[Johann]

When looking back I am ashamed how I at times have treated people of other races, just because I ignored obvious signals. It was not intentional. This is what we need to do if we really want to understand each other. And gain a blessing through interacting.

[LynnDel]

This is off topic, but only when I was privileged with the friendship of some wonderful Black friends who bless me in so many ways did I become aware of how we use the word "black" in our culture. I thought of it this last Sabbath when I was playing the piano for Kindergarten Sabbath School: "Satan makes my heart all black with sin, Jesus makes it white (or is the word "pure?") when He comes in...". Since the word Black is the name we call the race, I think it would be a good idea to find other ways to express what happens when sin is in our hearts.

[Gail]

This is off topic, but only when I was privileged with the friendship of some wonderful Black friends who bless me in so many ways did I become aware of how we use the word "black" in our culture. I thought of it this last Sabbath when I was playing the piano for Kindergarten Sabbath School: "Satan makes my heart all black with sin, Jesus makes it white (or is the word "pure?") when He comes in...". Since the word Black is the name we call the race, I think it would be a good idea to find other ways to express what happens when sin is in our hearts.

Good catch, LynnDel!

[Woody]

Quote:

I agree with you pk. However - what we don't need to do is have preferential treatment of one race over another by having Black Conferences.

I am not certain that I fully understand your point. I would like to have you expand on "preferential treatment."

NOTE: Particularly in the context that Regional Conferences arose in a context where Whites were given preferential treatment.

It's my thought that we only need one conference for all races. I don't feel that each race needs their own conference. Each race might want their own churches. But in my view each race does not need their own conference. Hope the distinction is clear.

[lazarus]

But where does preferential treatment come in?

You said this:

Quote:

what we don't need to do is have preferential treatment of one race over another by having Black Conferences.

Gergory responded with this:

Quote:

NOTE: Particularly in the context that Regional Conferences arose in a context where Whites were given preferential treatment.

[Johann]

Back in 1958 I visited the Danish-Norwegian SDA church in New York city. As far as I remember they actually had two services, one in either Danish or Norwegian for the older folks who still wanted to hear the message preached in their own language. I think the Sabbath School was divided into English and Scandinavian classes, and then there was the service in English attended by the younger generation who used English, but wanted still to belong to a church with ties to their roots.

I do not know when and how this church finally was closed down, but there might be even more churches today with a service in other languages and based on other traditions.