Bible and Self Defense

[bonnie]

The Bible and Self-Defense

By SnoMan on 6 July 2010 in The Liberty Watch

Anti-gun statists have twisted the holy scriptures to say that Christians should be pacifists. Sadly, some Christians have themselves twisted the scriptures even further, denying a right of self-defense even to the point that men ought to do nothing to stop women and children in their care from being raped or murdered. We will see here that the Holy Bible teaches nothing remotely so ridiculous.

But first, a couple of caveats. While I maintain that the scriptures permit self-defense and defense of others, there is a general prohibition against killing, and there is no authorization for personal vengeance.

General Prohibition Against Killing

There is no question that God established a general prohibition against killing. In fact, the prohibition is not simply against murder, but even unintentional killings; “thou shalt not kill.” Certainly murder was forbidden (Deut. 19:11), but even unintentional killing with negligence carried the death penalty. So if you had an ox that you knew was prone to attack with his horns, and you failed to confine it, if that ox killed someone you would be put to death. (Ex. 21:29).

Unintentional killing without negligence was not punishable by death as long as the slayer stayed in one of the cities of refuge until the death of the high priest (Deut. 19; Num. 35).

Obviously, “thou shalt not kill” has some exceptions. The “avenger of blood” was commanded to kill the guilty one.

No Personal Vengeance

The issue here is not that vengeance is bad. To the contrary, it is such a righteous thing that you are not qualified to do it. The Old Testament is full of examples of the Lord’s telling his people to do vengeance, but it was only permitted at his specific command or in individual cases according to the rule of law (such as the “avenger of blood”). The general rule was “thou shalt not avenge.” (Lev. 19:18).

In the New Testament, Paul carries this forward to Christians today: “Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.” (Rom. 12:19).

Duty to Defend Others

The Bible clearly teaches a duty to defend others. In Ps. 82:4 he commands his people to intervene on behalf of others: “Deliver the weak and needy; rid them out of the hand of the wicked.” Proverbs 24:11-12 is consistent with this: “If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain;… shall not he render to every man according to his works?” So if you don’t aid those ready to be slain, God will hold you to account.

Consider Ezekiel 33:6: “But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.” Here the watchman would account for the harm done to those he failed to warn.

Who is the watchman of your household? You are.

Jesus Claimed a Right of Self-Defense

Before we discuss this, read the following passages: Matthew 26:51-56; Luke 22:49-53; John 18:10-11.

In the garden of Gethsemane, a multitude of armed men came to arrest Jesus. Jesus and his disciples were carrying two swords, at his direction. When the thugs took hold of Jesus, Peter drew his sword and cut off the ear of Malchus, one of the servants of the high priest. In the verses that follow, Jesus did not tell Peter to throw his sword away, but to put it back in its place; and he did not say that it was wrong to defend him, but that if they did the Father’s plan of salvation would be thwarted.

In Mt. 26:53 he claimed a right of self-defense: “Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?” In the following verse he explained why he didn’t act on his right: “But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?”

So it’s not that Jesus had no right to defend himself; it’s just that the Father had a plan to save the lost by sacrificing the righteous Jesus, and Jesus willingly gave up his right.

Note also that right before they went to the place where Jesus was arrested, he told them to make sure they had swords. (Lk. 22:35-38).

After Peter cut off Malchus’ ear, Jesus tells him, “Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.” Some pacifists take this to mean that Jesus commanded us never take the sword, but this would contradict his commandment to get swords in the first place. I can’t say for sure that Jesus is not stating some sort of general principle like “violence begets violence,” or some such thing, but reading that into the text seems a stretch. Jesus himself, in this very passage, claims the right to call twelve legions of angels to wipe these people out.

In context, I think what Jesus is saying is this: We have two swords, and they have a multitude. Don’t be stupid; if you take the sword, you will die.”

A Specific Example of Self-Defense

Here is the classic example of the authorization of self-defense in the Old Testament — Ex. 22:2-3: “If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.”

So if someone breaks into your house at night, and you killed him, you would not be guilty. In the dark there was no way to know whether he was armed, and you could strike him and kill him just in case he was there to commit rape, murder, or kidnapping.

But if the sun was up, you should be able to determine if he was there only to steal. If so, you couldn’t kill him. It was not permitted to use lethal force merely to defend property.

The Disarming of Israel

There was a time when the people in Israel got on a pacifist kick and put down their weapons, but it was not at the Lord’s command — it was when they rejected the Lord and put other gods before him.

Judges 5:8: “They chose new gods; then was war in the gates: was there a shield or spear seen among forty thousand in Israel?” The answer to this rhetorical question is “no,” for men had abdicated their leadership responsibilities and begged a woman, Deborah, to lead them into battle and save them from their defenseless condition.

The Disarming of America

Something similar is happening in America today. Many men of God have abdicated their responsibility of defending those in their charge. They’ve done this because they have created a false dichotomy between living in peace on the one hand, and defending life on the other. This contradiction exists nowhere in scripture. Christians are not to seek revenge, return evil with evil, or defend their pride with violence, but a basic respect for the life of man, who is created in the image of God, is the basis of a right to defend oneself and others from physical harm.

To hold otherwise requires a twisted reading of the word of God. “[They] do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.” Mt. 22:29.

[Robert]

1 Peter 2:21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. 22 "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth." 23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly

[Robert]

Matt 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person.

[Robert]

Matt 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love (agape) your enemies....

[Robert]

Here is the classic example of the authorization of self-defense in the Old Testament — Ex. 22:2-3: “If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.”

Okay, if you are going to excuse yourself from Christ's commands in the NT then you must follow not only Ex 22:2-3, but everything written in the book of the law. As Paul said, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

[Robert]

Quote:

“Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?”

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the vain glory of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

[bonnie]

Matt 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person.

Except if I am led by God,I can resist,only not use "undue violence"

Again,stop being against guns in the hands of a evil person.You aren't to resist them and if they kill someone,So what? They are only carrying out God's appointed time. Those 20 small children really don't matter.

[bonnie]

Okay, if you are going to excuse yourself from Christ's commands in the NT then you must follow not only Ex 22:2-3, but everything written in the book of the law. As Paul said, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

Robert,thank you for reposting these verses. However after this on this topic I will not respond to you until such a time as you can speak directly to questions concerning the walk you demand of others while you talk their walk.

You aren't and never will be the one to tell me what I MUST follow.

Anyone that uses the term "Must Follow" or "I Don't Have To" is in the same camp. Religious convictions are not based on what I must do or what I don't have to do,yours seem to be.

Regardless of what Jack says,I don't look at the OT as simply historical or some nice stories that really don't matter.Nor do I look at the NT with a sigh of relief that says I don't have to"

Those that so piously declare "They don't have to"regardless of their behavior,whether it be positive or negative are as legalistic as those they condemn.

Those that say you should not resist a "evil person" in any physical way still seem to want to deny those "evil" people in carrying our God's appointed time for others.

In your view ,if the opportunity had presented itself,it would have been wrong for anyone to stop the wacko that carried out God's appointed time for those children.

You still have not answered why we should even try to keep guns out of the hands of evil people. If God did not intend for those children to die,they would not have.The gun would have failed to fire or some other intervention by God would have prevented it.Their kingdom is not of this world,so what is your problem with the slaughter of these children?

For me,I believe the bible to be relevant in our lives from Gen to Rev. Taking the bible as a whole on any given topic gives a much different view than cherry picking what backs up your claim of God's demands for others.

I don't have a lot of time for a legalist that thinks they can work their way to heaven,keep all the commandments perfectly,or the lagalist that bases his claimed religious convictions on "I don't have to" to gain eternal life.

You do not walk your talk,"Being led by God" gives you the right to use violence,even tho Jesus never did.It does not give anyone else that same right,then it is "Jesus never did"

[Narcah]

I carry a .22 and/or a .45 concealed, my wife carries a 9mm. We are not planning on allowing evil to come to our 'innocent' children if we can help it.

[Robert]

...it would have been wrong for anyone to stop the wacko that carried out God's appointed time for those children.

God has given the problems of this world over "governing officials" (see Romans 13).

[Robert]

I carry a .22 and/or a .45 concealed, my wife carries a 9mm. We are not planning on allowing evil to come to our 'innocent' children if we can help it.

The best way to protect the innocent is not to bring them into this world in the first place, but we do it anyway. There are no guarantees even with your concealed weapons.

I asked this question to my gun toting friends: Do you know anyone that has ever shot someone to protect their family?

Not one of them has fired a shot. I think we are a bit paranoid.

[bonnie]

I carry a .22 and/or a .45 concealed, my wife carries a 9mm. We are not planning on allowing evil to come to our 'innocent' children if we can help it.

The above indicates to some that is not christian and you should not try to prevent that which God has "appointed" a time for

I don't believe you are just waiting and praying for an opportunity to blow someone's head off.That if you can prevent harm from coming to your children by fleeing you would do so.

And I assume that you do not believe if someone chooses to try to harm them it is their appointed time and you should refuse to defend them with any physical force.

Most parents will defend and protect their children,even at the cost of their own safety and life,others claim that is wrong because Jesus did not fight back.

I cannot imagine the type of parent that would say,"Sorry kids,if you die it is your appointed time to die and I can't help you.

[Kountzer]

People twist the bible to justify anything.

[Tom Wetmore]

Paranoid, yes. And foolhardy too.

More victims of accidental shooting by such guns than those actually shot for claimed purpose of self-defense...

One statistic I have been looking for, but have not found yet, how many homicide victims have there been that were carrying/using a gun for self-defense at the time they were killed? I suspect that it is many more than have successfully defended themselves against an armed assailant/intruder.

[bonnie]

Paranoid, yes. And foolhardy too.

More victims of accidental shooting by such guns than those actually shot for claimed purpose of self-defense...

One statistic I have been looking for, but have not found yet, how many homicide victims have there been that were carrying/using a gun for self-defense at the time they were killed? I suspect that it is many more than have successfully defended themselves against an armed assailant/intruder.

Some seem to think self defense is restricted to paranoid gun crazies.

This is more about "Jesus did not resist" His death on the cross so it follows in the reasoning of some that no one should defend themselves and family against harm.

Jesus did not call the "governing authority" of His day either,so it should follow that neither should we.

He did not physically resist so we have no right to either.

If it is not our appointed time to die,no one,gun or otherwise can harm us.If it is our appointed time to die resistance or flight is futile

[Robert]

This is more about "Jesus did not resist" His death on the cross so it follows in the reasoning of some that no one should defend themselves and family against harm.

Jesus said if He were of the world (like us) His servants would then fight.

Jesus didn't just stand there...He got out, but ultimately they captured Him.

Have you ever shot anyone trying to do you harm, Bonnie? I bet not, yet you seem very paranoid. And when trouble does breakout other gun nuts will be shooting back. You'll die, basically. Why not trust in Jesus now to get you out of trouble? Seems your faith is in your gun, not Jesus.

[Robert]

He did not physically resist so we have no right to either.

You misunderstand. Jesus didn't fight back because it is not in His nature. Agape doesn't seek it's own.

[Robert]

Quote:

This is more about "Jesus did not resist" His death on the cross so it follows in the reasoning of some that no one should defend themselves and family against harm.

Read the Bible, Bonnie. Many times the Jews tried to stone Christ, but He escaped. Why? His time had not yet come.

The lesson? Don't stand there...get away, but if trapped Christ didn't throw a side-kick or whip out a sword.

[Robert]

Paranoid, yes. And foolhardy too.

More victims of accidental shooting by such guns than those actually shot for claimed purpose of self-defense...

One statistic I have been looking for, but have not found yet, how many homicide victims have there been that were carrying/using a gun for self-defense at the time they were killed? I suspect that it is many more than have successfully defended themselves against an armed assailant/intruder.

Bingo

[Robert]

People twist the bible to justify anything.

Yes they do....Some say it's moral to kill, but it's not moral to murder. So if you kill me, you don't hate me.

Wow, I'd hate to see what some would do if they hated me.

[Guest]

I cannot imagine the type of parent that would say,"Sorry kids,if you die it is your appointed time to die and I can't help you.

I can't either. But that's what they're suggesting, right?

[Gibs]

Jesus died on the battle ground of this world to save His own,

Why would we as the master of the house not also die to save our own if necessay?

Read what our God does for His Children, should we do less?

De 32:37 And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,

De 32:38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection.

De 32:39 ¶ See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

De 32:40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.

De 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

De 32:42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.

De 32:43 Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[bonnie]

I can't either. But that's what they're suggesting, right?

Actually I think it is more than a suggestion.

Of course it is easy to hold religious convictions for an audience.

It is claimed Jesus was trapped after escaping prior to that because it wasn't His time.

If it was not His time and He could not be killed regardless of what was planned why set the example of escaping something that would not happen?

Claiming Jesus was trapped finally and that led to His death is a little silly. That implies Jesus did not know what His future held and walked blindly into a trap.

I really don't think so.Jesus had a mission to fulfill and that was the only way.I kind of think He knew that before He was born as an infant,Don't you?

When I heard the first broadcast on these innocent children being slaughtered I was almost physically sick. Then of course the hysteria over gun restrictions was close behind. Little did I realize that it was their appointed time to die. Of course if you want to keep children safe,don't have them.

Would a total gun ban or stricter restrictions on guns have saved these children? How? God could have caused the gun to jam,He could have caused the bullets to pass harmlessly over the children.Unless it was their appointed time mortal man could not have killed them.What do we need with stricter laws of any kind?

Either don't have children or step aside if a occasion occurs that threatens to harm them. Either way,it is already decided.

Of course it seems that Jesus turned protection over to the governing authorities. Jesus did not call for help but I guess we should tell anyone that would try to harm us to wait,We have a phone call to make.That kind of gives me a problem tho,what if someone is harmed or killed because of my phone call?Sounds a little like Pilate doesn't it?

But we still can defend ourselves I guess,If you are led by God,you will only use the necessary force to defend your family.Make sense to you yet?

[bonnie]

Just take note of the convoluted reasoning.

20 children died because it was their appointed time but we need stricter gun laws to protect children from their appointed time.Jesus did not resist or fight back,we cannot resist or fight back against those trying to cause your family harm.But being led by God you can use measured violence to protect your family.Direct contrast to what Jesus did,

Most rational people understand that if at all possible you remove your family from danger as quickly as you can.If not possible you should be expected to protect them in anyway you can. Irrational people want it to sound like any that would protect their family are hoping and praying for a chance to blow someone's head of in righteous anger.

Or that we are walking around in a constant state of paranoia. I don't live in a constant state of fear,waiting for someone lurking around every corner to grab me. But I am not foolish enough to believe that it couldn't happen.

Nor was I foolish enough to be careless with my children or grandchildren,believing if someone harmed them it was simply their appointed time.Children can sometimes flee harm but when so many can't then it is simply their time

[Robert]

Jesus died on the battle ground of this world to save His own

How do I say this? That's a pure nonsense! Christ came to save the human race - His enemies.:

Rom 5:8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God...

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love (agape) with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses (His enemies), made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)