Christ was a Seventh-day Adventist

[lazarus]

How do we avoid the fact that Jesus taught and lived by the theological framework that Adventism advocates. In further review of the OP I find that, in deed, Christ was a SDA, so why should we shrink from that fact. It does make our theological case more convincing.

So then why do our theologians, preachers, and evangelists not use this line of reasoning?

[joeb]

According to the EGW quotation provided by Joeb earlier in this thread, Jesus was the God that interacted with Moses at Sinai. So it would be Jesus himself that uttered the words at Sinai which promised to the priests and Levites the very things that you say were "the first" that Jesus "takes away in order to establish the second".

It would be Jesus himself that gave Moses the laws that were recorded in the Book of the Law that was placed beside the Ark of the Covenant, of which Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." (Matt 24:25) But you're trying to tell us that when Jesus stated this He was already planning to take away the perpetual priesthood and the portion of the sacrifices that He had given to the descendants of Aaron and Phinehas forever. What a fickle notion you have of Jesus. It's no wonder most Jews don't accept your notion of Jesus as the Messiah. You make Jesus out to be a liar of the worst kind.

Praise God that there are Jews who faithfully interpret the New Testament (as the Bereans did) in a way that does not contradict the Old Testament. May you someday be humble enough to learn from them.

Do you really believe that the sacrificial system, i.e. the entire Jewish economy, is still in place?

[CoAspen]

I find that this idea of Christ=SDA to be less of making our theology convicing to SDA's or others outside of church. It is still dancing around the issue of exclusivity. If we need to be convinced of our theology by making Christ like us, what type of God do we have or what do we need to attain too? As for those outside, why would you want to be part of an organization that claims God for themselves only? To say that is not what is being said is obfusification of the issue. While others are out in the world making a difference, as Christ pointed out was the true test of His followers, we want to argue about Christ being an SDA? Really?

[Woody]

Either Christ believes in the Second Coming and the Sabbath --- or He doesn't. I hope we can figure this one out. Rather simple in my book. Why complicate matters?

[Ron Amnsn]

Do you really believe that the sacrificial system, i.e. the entire Jewish economy, is still in place?

[BobRyan]

I find that this idea of Christ=SDA to be less of making our theology convicing to SDA's or others outside of church. It is still dancing around the issue of exclusivity.

Was Christ "dancing around something" in John 4 "You worship what you do not know - WE worship what WE know - for salvation is of the Jews"??

Is that how you view Christ?

As it turns out Christ was willing to admit that God had a specific purpose and it is not 6 of one half-dozen of the other when it comes to doctrinal errors in the various groups.

The protesting Catholics giving up their lives in the dark ages so that they could hold to reformed, restored purer truth - were not doing it on a whim or for a lark.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

You ask the question above as if you were a Jew just being introduced to the Gospel by Paul.

The Bereans were Jews just being introduced to the Gospel by Paul. They were, however, able to confirm Paul's gospel by searching the Old Testament Scriptures.

The Bereans would never be able to confirm your teachings by searching the Old Testament Scriptures,

Until they read Daniel 9 where the Messiah was predicted to put a stop to sacrifice and offerings in the midst of the week of His ministry on earth.

in Christ,

Bob

[Ted Oplinger]

But...Daniel 9 shows the Jew precisely who and when their Messiah came. It is so exact that those not wanting the various sacrifices and sanctuary ceremonies to end...reportedly pronounced a curse upon those who would be adventurous enough to trace the prophecy through time, and find the Messiah.

Jews today do not use the Torah - they use the Talmud, if I am not mistaken, so a "good Berean Jew" does not even have the Books of the Law as his primary reference point for faith...much like Catholics today use church tradition instead of the Bible as their primary reference point for faith.

Reaching these requires getting them to engage secondary reference points for faith - sometimes, a tough sell.

As for the application of the Gospel today - it is always a good exercise to retrace some steps, and support our beliefs using only the 4 Gospels and the Old Testament.

If the early Church could turn the world upside down using the events of Christ's life and the Old Testament, and the Bereans confirm Paul's Gospel from the Old Testament - we should be able to do the same.

Christ was able to open the whole Old Testament and explain who He was and what He came to do (Luke 24:27; 44, 45). His testimony to the Jews was that the Scriptures testified of Himself (John 5:39), and not to a list of do's and don'ts to earn heaven with.

If Christ "was a Seventh-day Adventist", should not we be able to do the same - testify of Him using only His life/death/resurrection and the Old Testament?

Food for thought...

Blessings,

[Ron Amnsn]

Originally Posted By: Ron Amnsn

The Bereans would never be able to confirm your teachings by searching the Old Testament Scriptures,

Until they read Daniel 9 where the Messiah was predicted to put a stop to sacrifice and offerings in the midst of the week of His ministry on earth.

Bob, at the time the Bereans were reading Daniel 9, Jesus had come and gone and the sacrifices and offerings were still being done regularly in the Temple at Jerusalem. Titus and his army had not yet put an end to the sacrifices. The Bereans would be able to tell you with certainty that your interpretation of Daniel 9:27 is erroneous. It was not Messiah that stopped the sacrifices at the Temple.

The Bereans would never be able to confirm your teachings by searching the Old Testament Scriptures.

Just as SDA's plan to be able to distinguish Jesus from the anti-Christ by seeing which one upholds God's law, the faithful Jews can also distinguish between the true Messiah and imposters by seeing which one upholds the Word of God. The Jesus of the New Testament upheld the Book of the Law and taught his disciples to follow His example. But the distorted "Jesus" that you are teaching would be identified by faithful Jews as an anti-Christ because you teach that your "Jesus" supposedly stopped the services at God's Temple and took away large sections of God's Torah.

Bob, you have apparently never valued the whole of God's perfect Law that was given to the Israelites, and you imagine that everyone is better off without what you call the "ceremonial law". So when you read anything that might possibly be construed to hint that part of God's Law has been "taken away", you eagerly accept that as "proof" that the Law has changed (in spite of the fact that Jesus specifically said that not a stroke of the Law would disappear until heaven and earth pass away and all things are fulfilled, which hasn't happened yet).

The Bereans (and many other Jews) did not share your beliefs about the very nature of God's Law. They valued all of God's Law. Even if an angel from heaven told them that God had changed the Law and put an end to sacrifices, they would not believe that the angel was from God, because God himself had declared differently. The Old Testament Scriptures show that God made the sacrifices and Temple services as something good and beneficial and taught the Israelites that they were something to rejoice in. Speaking of the Temple in Jerusalem John 2:17 says of Jesus, "Zeal for your house will consume me" (an attitude that is evidently part of being Christ-like). The Scriptures record that God said those services were intended to continue throughout the generations of the Israelites (that's as long as the descendants of Jacob are having babies). The Scriptures record that God covenanted to give the priesthood as a perpetual inheritance to the descendants of Aaron's grandson Phinehas; and God promised a portion of the sacrifices to the Levites as a lasting inheritance. Someone who teaches as you teach is essentially teaching that God's Word, His promises, and His covenants cannot be trusted.

You delude yourself when you imagine that you could convince a faithful Jew to believe as you believe using the passages you have presented. God describes the Jews as a stubborn people. I'm not even Jewish (as far as I know) and you haven't even begun to convince me that your out-of-context interpretations of the New Testament overturn the Word of God recorded in the Old Testament.