Christ was a Seventh-day Adventist

[John317]

If God came into the world today, wouldn't He be a Seventh-day Adventist?

Originally Posted By: lazarus

Why would he do that?

Because Christ is our example, and He wouldn't be telling us to call people into the SDA church if He wasn't willing to do the same thing.

Is the Holy Spirit calling people out of Babylon and into the SDA church?

Aren't you a part of that movement to call people into the SDA church? If so, why are you doing it?

[lazarus]

My comments have nothing to do with perfections and imperfections in the church it is about who God is.

To say God is a Seventh-day Adventist is to put limits on who God is.

Exodus 3:4 God replied to Moses, "I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you."

[lazarus]

Because Christ is our example, and He wouldn't be telling us to call people into the SDA church if He wasn't willing to do the same thing.

Jesus is not going to join the SDA Church.

[John317]

To say God is a Seventh-day Adventist is to put limits on who God is.

Exodus 3:4 God replied to Moses, "I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you."

The Great "I AM" was a Jew and was an adherent to the Jewish faith. That shouldn't surprise anyone, since it was Christ who founded the the Jewish "church". It was also Jesus Christ who raised up the SDA Church.

Are you saying that Christ would refuse to be a member of the very church that He raised up and that His Spirit is calling people into?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Because Christ is our example, and He wouldn't be telling us to call people into the SDA church if He wasn't willing to do the same thing.

Jesus is not going to join the SDA Church.

The question is, what would Christ [God] do if He were a man on earth today?

[John317]

He is returning to earth to claim his people. There will be SDA's and others in that number. There will be people of other faiths in that number. He'll be returning as Jesus Christ Savior of the world.

Nothing of what we've said so far is a denial that there will be people saved from all Christian groups.

That isn't the question. SDAs have always taught that God has honest, sincere people in all churches, including many in the Roman Catholic church.

[John317]

Is the Holy Spirit calling people out of Babylon and into the SDA church?

Aren't you a part of that movement to call people into the SDA church? If so, why are you doing it?

[lazarus]

Is the Holy Spirit calling people out of Babylon and into the SDA church?

Aren't you a part of that movement to call people into the SDA church? If so, why are you doing it?

Not relevant to the discussion.

The thread is titled "Christ was a Seventh-day Adventist". Clearly he was not. Paul was not. None of the disciples were. It's a weird notion.

[John317]

The thread is titled "Christ was a Seventh-day Adventist". Clearly he was not. Paul was not. None of the disciples were. It's a weird notion.

God's last-day prophet clearly did not think the notion weird at all:

Quote:

Christ was a Seventh-day Adventist, to all intents and purposes. It was He who called Moses into the mount and gave him instruction for His people. . . . In awful grandeur Christ made known the law of Jehovah, giving, among other charges, this charge: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Medical Missionary, p. 49

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Is the Holy Spirit calling people out of Babylon and into the SDA church?

Aren't you a part of that movement to call people into the SDA church? If so, why are you doing it?

Not relevant to the discussion.

Whether you think they're relevent or not, I would be interested in hearing your answer to them.

[John317]

"THE LORD LOVES HIS CHURCH," Ellen White DECLARED WHEN IT WAS UNDER ATTACK (SELECTED MESSAGES, BOOK 2, P. 68). TENDERLY SHE WROTE, "THE CHURCH OF CHRIST, ENFEEBLED AND DEFECTIVE AS IT MAY BE, IS THE ONLY OBJECT ON EARTH ON WHICH HE BESTOWS HIS SUPREME REGARD."--TESTIMONIES TO MINISTERS, P. 15.

The context, and the statements she makes in 2 SM 68 show that Ellen White is talking about the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

In Testimonies To Ministers, page 15, Ellen White calls the SDA church "the church of Christ."

I don't think there's any question that if He was on earth today, Christ would be a member of His own church. (Again, that doesn't mean of course that Christ would agree with everything that goes on in His Church.)

[cardw]

"THE LORD LOVES HIS CHURCH," Ellen White DECLARED WHEN IT WAS UNDER ATTACK (SELECTED MESSAGES, BOOK 2, P. 68). TENDERLY SHE WROTE, "THE CHURCH OF CHRIST, ENFEEBLED AND DEFECTIVE AS IT MAY BE, IS THE ONLY OBJECT ON EARTH ON WHICH HE BESTOWS HIS SUPREME REGARD."--TESTIMONIES TO MINISTERS, P. 15.

The context, and the statements she makes in 2 SM 68 show that Ellen White is talking about the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

In Testimonies To Ministers, page 15, Ellen White calls the SDA church "the church of Christ."

I don't think there's any question that if He was on earth today, Christ would be a member of His own church. (Again, that doesn't mean of course that Christ would agree with everything that goes on in His Church.)

This is the problem with moderate Christians. If you are going to take your writings seriously then John is right. The fundamentalists are right if you take your writings at face value.

That's why I'm not a Christian because these writings are absolutely promoting insanity.

If I did believe in god I would hazard to guess that he might come as a muslim since the Bible says that god uses the weak to humble the strong. And since the muslims are about the most despised religious group on the planet right now I think god would consider the cosmic joke power of that image. And I think the muslims would probably kill him in about three years as well.

When religious ideas that come from the Bible can't make it in the free exchange of ideas history tells us that they suppress opposition by violence when reason begins to fail.

If there is a lesson from the Jesus myth, this would be it.

[Woody]

Quote:

That's why I'm not a Christian because these writings are absolutely promoting insanity.

Can you expand on why you feel this way about the statement?

[cardw]

Quote:

That's why I'm not a Christian because these writings are absolutely promoting insanity.

Can you expand on why you feel this way about the statement?

You may have thought I was referring to the particular quote. I was referring to Ellen White's writings in general. She was one of the most self centered writers I know of. This comes out very clearly when you read her testimony.

She promotes a form of low self esteem as a virtue, which essentially is a crazy making mental gymnastics of " May the most humble win "

Here is a detailed analysis in the context of my own history.

Prophets and Queens

[lazarus]

God's last-day prophet clearly did not think the notion weird at all:

I know she didn't. I do.

Not sure why you are posting statements about Christ loving the church. Who said Christ did not love the church? Whole lot of conflation (if that's a word) goin' on.

[CoAspen]

Laz,

I think we are seeing my questions answered, although not directly. Things are becoming more clear around here. I find it very disturbing, this idea that Christ follows us rather we following Him. One can hear the inference that to be like Christ, you must must become an SDA. What is next??

[lazarus]

CoAspen

Yes, there seems to be a subtle manipulation here. To describe God as an adherent is to make the infinite finite. There is an attempt, as I see it, to confine Him within the boundaries of human institution. If God is an SDA then surely he wouldn't do this or that. God is then remade into the image of Adventist tradition and cultural norms. Sounds like what the Jews did. They did not receive Jesus because he was not in the image of their Jewish God.

Human institutions, like denominations and systems of belief are to enable us to understand God and "meet" Him. He has been and always will be greater than any church even his church. He is never an adherent, he is always LORD of the Dance.

[Woody]

CoAspen

Yes, there seems to be a subtle manipulation here. To describe God as an adherent is to make the infinite finite. There is an attempt, as I see it, to confine Him within the boundaries of human institution. If God is an SDA then surely he wouldn't do this or that. God is then remade into the image of Adventist tradition and cultural norms. Sounds like what the Jews did. They did not receive Jesus because he was not in the image of their Jewish God.

Human institutions, like denominations and systems of belief are to enable us to understand God and "meet" Him. He has been and always will be greater than any church even his church. He is never an adherent, he is always LORD of the Dance.

[Ron Amnsn]

"THE LORD LOVES HIS CHURCH," Ellen White DECLARED WHEN IT WAS UNDER ATTACK (SELECTED MESSAGES, BOOK 2, P. 68). TENDERLY SHE WROTE, "THE CHURCH OF CHRIST, ENFEEBLED AND DEFECTIVE AS IT MAY BE, IS THE ONLY OBJECT ON EARTH ON WHICH HE BESTOWS HIS SUPREME REGARD."--TESTIMONIES TO MINISTERS, P. 15.

The context, and the statements she makes in 2 SM 68 show that Ellen White is talking about the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

In Testimonies To Ministers, page 15, Ellen White calls the SDA church "the church of Christ."

What EGW wrote a hundred years ago may have been true then (if the statement was actually tested by Scripture and was found to be valid). At that time the SDA church was a body of believers (who were not afraid to challenge established doctrines through real study of the Scriptures). Today the "SDA Church" is a Corporation -- a non-human entity established for business purposes. That's a fundamental change. If someone replaced your bride with a non-human entity would all the things you had previously spoken about your bride still apply to the usurping entity? No.

Jesus prayed for real unity among his followers. Denominational organizations create unnecessary division among the followers of Jesus. Membership in a denomination tends to restrict Bible study to "safe" topics that won't challenge the traditions of men. Denominational organizations compete with God for the loyalty of believers.

The word "church" really shouldn't be in the Bible. One of the early English translators argued against its use because the word "church" introduces concepts that are foreign to Scripture. Scripturally it applies only the assembly of God's people, not to a building, nor to an organizational entity.

[BobRyan]

The thread is titled "Christ was a Seventh-day Adventist". Clearly he was not. Paul was not. None of the disciples were. It's a weird notion.

[BobRyan]

Is the Holy Spirit calling people out of Babylon and into the SDA church?

Aren't you a part of that movement to call people into the SDA church? If so, why are you doing it?

indeed we are calling people into a church that has doctrines in line with the teaching of Christ -- in fact doctrines that are to this day approved by, and authored by Christ Himself.

No wonder one of His prophets makes that statement about this church and it's doctrinal statements.

in Christ,

Bob

[doug yowell]

What's really weird is that so many people who don't believe: in any church organization,that Christianity and Christ is not mythology ,that Adventism is uniquely meaningful, that a prophet was a prophet,that the Jews were special to God,ect...ect.. all feel the need to be a integral part of Club ADVENTIST. If, historically, Jesus joined the Jewish church, why, as a Sabbath keeping, second coming Believer, would He not join the SDA denomination? Would He be too Holy and Righteous to join with any imperfect organization? Why wouldn't He not go to those He had given the most "light" to, unless, of course, one believes that the "light" was,in fact,not "light" at all?

[Ron Amnsn]

Quote:

Christ was a Seventh-day Adventist, to all intents and purposes. It was He who called Moses into the mount and gave him instruction for His people. . . . In awful grandeur Christ made known the law of Jehovah, giving, among other charges, this charge: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Medical Missionary, p. 49

So then we can either put each one of our own opinions above the word that God gave His prophet in the quote above - or we can choose to listen to 1Thess 5:19-20. Another opportunity to exercise free will - just as Adam and Eve did.

[joeb]

Quote:

In this case, EGW's prophetic message could be understood to agree with Scripture IF she was speaking of the people in the SDA church at that time who were committed to following the teachings of Scripture. But the context has changed in the intervening 100 years. The quotation from EGW is now being applied to the organization rather than to the people. If that is what EGW intended at the time she first penned the message, then the message must be rejected because it contradicts Scripture.

I have to ask, Ron, where you come up with your assertion that Ellen White was not applying her statement to the organization? The context of the quote from MM p 49 can only be said to apply to the people of the church if all church members were physicians. As we know that is_not/was_not true then according to context and simple logic she had to have been speaking about the organization.

I'm not someone who will blindly follow the organization whereever it leads, but you seem to be taking the quote wildly out of context to apply it the way you are applying it.

[Ron Amnsn]

If, historically, Jesus joined the Jewish church, why, as a Sabbath keeping, second coming Believer, would He not join the SDA denomination? Would He be too Holy and Righteous to join with any imperfect organization? Why wouldn't He not go to those He had given the most "light" to, unless, of course, one believes that the "light" was,in fact,not "light" at all?

Doug, there's a lot more to Scripture and righteous living than the weekly Sabbath and believing that Jesus will come again. EGW herself wrote that people would not need her testimonies if they would study the Bible, so there's not much validity in referring to the SDA church as, "those He had given the most 'light' to". Every believer who has access to the Scriptures has what is necessary to follow Jesus. EGW and the SDA church never had a monopoly on Scripture or the Holy Spirit.

The reason some of us non-SDA's come here to discuss Scripture, is because we have friends and relatives who are SDA's, so we have an interest in having the SDA church press on toward Scriptural truth. Also, hearing the "best arguments" that SDA's can offer to support their doctrines helps us to test our own beliefs to see if they indeed are supportable by Scripture. Of course that's most beneficial when discussing with people who are well versed in Scripture, rather than with those who rely on the writings of others.