Eternal Life

[M. T. Cross]

It seems to me that one of the biggest draws of Christianity is the promise of eternal life.

I often wonder why people would want that. On the surface it seems so attractive, but when you stop and think about it I can't see it being that great after the first couple thousand years. Thing is there will be nothing new after a period of time. There will be no marriage, there will be no babies, just the same chosen people. I often heard that as a young SDA that we will have the universe to explore if we are saved. But even that would come to an end at some point........... then what? Think about it - eternity! No end ever. With nothing new ever. I see that as really depressing actually.

[Gail]

What makes you feel that there will be nothing new?

[phkrause]

It seems to me that one of the biggest draws of Christianity is the promise of eternal life.

I have never looked at it as a "draw"! I look at this as a reward for doing only what he has ask us to do. Because I believe that he could ask for much more than just being a good person. He gave his life for each and every one of us. Even for those that hate him and crucified him!

[phkrause]

I often wonder why people would want that. On the surface it seems so attractive, but when you stop and think about it I can't see it being that great after the first couple thousand years.

I would ask why wouldn't one want to live forever? From what I see is that so many want just that, without the commitment.

[M. T. Cross]

As in new creations? Because sin will have been defeated, the devil gone forever - so any new creation will not have any temptation as we did. From what I was taught in church was that all new creation had to stop the minute mankind fell.

[M. T. Cross]

I would ask why wouldn't one want to live forever? From what I see is that so many want just that, without the commitment.

Because after an amount of time it would just be existing, not living. It may take tens of thousands of years to reach that point, but at some point one would have seen and experienced everything. Then what? You could say that we could just sit back and enjoy - that might be good for a couple thousand more years but after a while it seems to me that it would just get really really boring.

[JoeMo]

MT, I have wondered the same thing about eternal life. I also find it very difficult to imagine a world with no disagreements or arguments or "bad moods", or being tired, etc. ever again. Eternity is a long, long time. But the universe is a big, big place. There are probably some places that would take 100's or thousands of years to fully appreciate.

[Gail]

I don't know... When I start a study on a Bible subject, or read up a bit on a natural or scientific topic, the thing that strikes me is how BIG the topics turn out to be. I feel like I am only considering one bit of sand when there is a whole beach around me.

Do not underestimate God! I don't think we can even begin to imagine what's in store. :)

[phkrause]

Thing is there will be nothing new after a period of time. There will be no marriage, there will be no babies, just the same chosen people. I often heard that as a young SDA that we will have the universe to explore if we are saved. But even that would come to an end at some point........... then what? Think about it - eternity! No end ever. With nothing new ever. I see that as really depressing actually.

Why would the universe come to an end? Unless what your saying is our exploring of it will end? I can't see how! The universe is so much bigger than any of us can possibly understand.

[M. T. Cross]

Why would the universe come to an end? Unless what your saying is our exploring of it will end? I can't see how! The universe is so much bigger than any of us can possibly understand.

Of that I have no doubt. But when one considers all eternity, just seems to me to be longer than I would want to exist. It could be an unimaginable length of time before things started to all look the same, but I can't see it not happening in the context of eternal life.

[Ted Oplinger]

It seems to me that one of the biggest draws of Christianity is the promise of eternal life.

I often wonder why people would want that. On the surface it seems so attractive, but when you stop and think about it I can't see it being that great after the first couple thousand years. Thing is there will be nothing new after a period of time. There will be no marriage, there will be no babies, just the same chosen people. I often heard that as a young SDA that we will have the universe to explore if we are saved. But even that would come to an end at some point........... then what? Think about it - eternity! No end ever. With nothing new ever. I see that as really depressing actually.

Nothing new? Let's not be depressed about eternity ahead...

You don't think God hasn't already planned for the curiosity of the human mind?

If He planned for our salvation before the time man was created, and had it in place before we needed it, I tend to think God has already taken our need to "live" rather than just "exist" into account. There will always be something unfamiliar, some mystery, which will engage our mental and physical faculties to work, to the glory of God.

I tend to think that just when we think we have exhausted everything knowable, everything "new", God will pull the curtain back and say, "Well, My Children, what about these things?".

Let's flip the question to God's perspective, since He will be spending eternity with us - do we think God wants a group of despondent, bored children trying to play harps and sing praise to Him as our only activity?

Blessings,

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

It seems to me that one of the biggest draws of Christianity is the promise of eternal life.

I often wonder why people would want that. On the surface it seems so attractive, but when you stop and think about it I can't see it being that great after the first couple thousand years. Thing is there will be nothing new after a period of time. There will be no marriage, there will be no babies, just the same chosen people. I often heard that as a young SDA that we will have the universe to explore if we are saved. But even that would come to an end at some point........... then what? Think about it - eternity! No end ever. With nothing new ever. I see that as really depressing actually.

Nothing new? Let's not be depressed about eternity ahead...

You don't think God hasn't already planned for the curiosity of the human mind?

If He planned for our salvation before the time man was created, and had it in place before we needed it, I tend to think God has already taken our need to "live" rather than just "exist" into account. There will always be something unfamiliar, some mystery, which will engage our mental and physical faculties to work, to the glory of God.

I tend to think that just when we think we have exhausted everything knowable, everything "new", God will pull the curtain back and say, "Well, My Children, what about these things?".

Let's flip the question to God's perspective, since He will be spending eternity with us - do we think God wants a group of despondent, bored children trying to play harps and sing praise to Him as our only activity?

Blessings,

Actually Ted, not trying to be flippant here, but from what I have experienced and seen of your God - he would likely want nothing more than to have everyone sitting about singing his praise for all of eternity.

[Gail]

Well, you know, EC, you do have a choice in whether you will exist eternally or not. It is not something that will be forced upon you.

The beauty of eternal life, in my eyes, is the opportunity to enjoy much more time with those whom we cannot live without here on earth. And that is besides talking with our Saviour, who holds all mysteries in his hand. Every conversation I have in my everyday life here gives me food for thought and enlarges my knowledge. I imagine that will only get better with time. :)

[Gail]

Quote:

Actually Ted, not trying to be flippant here, but from what I have experienced and seen of your God - he would likely want nothing more than to have everyone sitting about singing his praise for all of eternity.

My experience here in this life has been that praise is evoked after a revelation of God's love. When I experience an answer to prayer or a comfort from a fitting Scripture or someone else's joy, THEN it is that the praises come.

In earthly terms, we are sometimes moved to admire those who are truly noble or those who have been courageous. That is a but an example of the life of a Christian, who experiences those "wow" moments daily.

[M. T. Cross]

I guess Gail, what gets to me is that the view of heaven I was taught and perceived through my own reading seems to be one more of the loss of individuality, of almost clone like existence. Yes there would be lots of discovery for a length of time we can not even begin to fathom. But if one is to retain their individuality, then you could loose interest in much of the things there are to discover. I'm not so sure that eternity is not attractive, but eternity as me is not really.

[M. T. Cross]

My experience here in this life has been that praise is evoked after a revelation of God's love. When I experience an answer to prayer or a comfort from a fitting Scripture or someone else's joy, THEN it is that the praises come.

In earthly terms, we are sometimes moved to admire those who are truly noble or those who have been courageous. That is a but an example of the life of a Christian, who experiences those "wow" moments daily.

I totally understand where you are coming from with those WOW moments. I have them a great deal as well.

My comment to Ted is based in that the Christian God is one that demands praise, demands worship. So I can't see eternity with him being any different than that.

For the record - I am not calling down the Christian point of view here - I am jsut trying to understand it. It is one of the things that bothered me about Christianity even in my earliest memories. Something even as a really little kid I could just not accept.

[phkrause]

To add to what Ted posted, hope you don't mind? But originally that's what we were created for, Eternity!! If sin had not showed its head, that's exactly were we would be right now.

[Gail]

I always appreciate your honesty, EC. It is something that is not easily explained nor is the understanding of it something I can give you. It is a matter of the heart.

I am sorry that you got the picture of God that you did when you were young. My belief is that children, even very small ones, can be very spiritual and that should be nurtured in them. You have come out of a time when Adventists suffered from a legalistic viewpoint which overshadowed a loving picture of God. It breaks my heart when I hear such stories. Some of those children grew up to be bitter as adults towards God, when the cause of their bitterness was a misrepresentation of Him. I feel that those responsible were doing the best they could, that their experiences may well have been just as intolerable. But it was an injustice to those children.

It just reminds me of how darkly we do see things. If we only could admit that, it might be a freeing thing.

But God doesn't waste anything. He can turn the worst pain into valuable experience that equips us for caring for others.

I am thankful that you are not bitter towards others. and I feel that the Holy Spirit is speaking to you in those spiritual moments that you have.

((( EmptyCross )))

[JoeMo]

Hey MT,

Quote:

the Christian God is one that demands praise, demands worship. So I can't see eternity with him being any different than that.

With Gail, I'm so sorry that your early experiences with the church were so negative. The God I worship does not demand praise; those who do praise Him do so willfully because of all the great things He has done! I have seen my Deity do things that are so amazing and full of love, mercy, grace, and power that I can't help but praise Him! I'm sure that your Gods have also done things that amaze you, too! The God I worship wants to hang out with His family cuz He loves them; not because He demands their obeisance. I'm not preaching to you here; I'm just perceiving that you were raised with the wrong God. My God loves and cherishes you as much as He does me, Gail, or anyone else on this board.

[JoeMo]

MT,

After all that I said above - getting back to topic - I gotta agree that forever and ever and ever .... is a long, long, time (if time would even be a concept in eternity.

Do you think that living in eternity might include the ability to move through time as well as space? Now that would be cool ...

[M. T. Cross]

I agree Gail and Joe - we do see things much more darkly than we care to admit to. Actually one of the things I am working on right now in my religion is facing that darkness and learning how to use it at the appropriate times and in appropriate ways and when it simply is a destructive roadblock to growth. The thing is, life really is not butterflies and rainbows so its important IMO to know how to turn the thornbush into a beautiful plant that you can enjoy.

I certainly was an SDA at a time when it was extremely legalistic! I can see there have been some changes to that - but I see much of it still remaining as well. But its not really an issue to me cause, well, I am not an SDA. What bothers me is that those are the people going forth to convert people into a world of fear. I guess another issue I would have is spending eternity with people like that.

We had a pretty good discussion at the pagan board I post at about the holy spirit the other day. In a thread for pagans that are former Christians it was brought up how the feeling lots of us get in pagan worship is identical to that we had in those "wow" moments as Christians. My thought is that it is a divine force that flows through all things, we just all call it something different.

The thought occurred to me recently after spending some time looking at some of my experiences and reading what some of the people said in that thread on the pagan board. I wonder if your deity chooses those he wants like other deity seem to. I am sure he is amicable to all, but not all of us are meant to walk his path. That there are lessons for us to be learned elsewhere. In the end I stand by the view of one mountain - many paths.

Time - Joe you bring up a wonderful subject there. Does time even exist outside of our human based thought process? I mean we measure it by rotations around our sun. Its different on Mars, different on Pluto. And thats the same sun. Time as I can tell it is not a rule - its a human method of measurement. I think its likely circular as well, but thats a whole nother topic.

[Gail]

Much of who we are today is tied to how we were shaped.

[M. T. Cross]

Absolutely Gail! A lesson I learn every day as a parent.

[Windsor]

"Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him." 1 Corinthians 2:9.

The people of God are privileged to hold open communion with the Father and the Son. "Now we see through a glass, darkly." 1 Corinthians 13:12. We behold the image of God reflected, as in a mirror, in the works of nature and in His dealings with men; but then we shall see Him face to face, without a dimming veil between. We shall stand in His presence and behold the glory of His countenance.

There the redeemed shall know, even as also they are known. The loves and sympathies which God Himself has planted in the soul shall there find truest and sweetest exercise. The pure communion with holy beings, the harmonious social life with the blessed angels and with the faithful ones of all ages who have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb, the sacred ties that bind together "the whole family in heaven and earth" (Ephesians 3:15)--these help to constitute the happiness of the redeemed.

There, immortal minds will contemplate with never-failing delight the wonders of creative power, the mysteries of redeeming love. There will be no cruel, deceiving foe to tempt to forgetfulness of God. Every faculty will be developed, every capacity increased. The acquirement of knowledge will not weary the mind or exhaust the energies. There the grandest enterprises may be carried forward, the loftiest aspirations reached, the highest ambitions realized; and still there will arise new heights to surmount, new wonders to admire, new truths to comprehend, fresh objects to call forth the powers of mind and soul and body.

All the treasures of the universe will be open to the study of God's redeemed. Unfettered by mortality, they wing their tireless flight to worlds afar--worlds that thrilled with sorrow at the spectacle of human woe and rang with songs of gladness at the tidings of a ransomed soul. With unutterable delight the children of earth enter into the joy and the wisdom of unfallen beings. They share the treasures of knowledge and understanding gained through ages upon ages in contemplation of God's handiwork. With undimmed vision they gaze upon the glory of creation--suns and stars and systems, all in their appointed order circling the throne of Deity. Upon all things, from the least to the greatest, the Creator's name is written, and in all are the riches of His power displayed.

And the years of eternity, as they roll, will bring richer and still more glorious revelations of God and of Christ. As knowledge is progressive, so will love, reverence, and happiness increase. The more men learn of God, the greater will be their admiration of His character. As Jesus opens before them the riches of redemption and the amazing achievements in the great controversy with Satan, the hearts of the ransomed thrill with more fervent devotion, and with more rapturous joy they sweep the harps of gold; and ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands of voices unite to swell the mighty chorus of praise.

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." Revelation 5:13.

The great controversy is ended. Sin and sinners are no more. The entire universe is clean. One pulse of harmony and gladness beats through the vast creation. From Him who created all, flow life and light and gladness, throughout the realms of illimitable space. From the minutest atom to the greatest world, all things, animate and inanimate, in their unshadowed beauty and perfect joy, declare that God is love.

Great Controversy

[M. T. Cross]

Is that a quote from EGW`s The Great Controversy or your own thoughts Windsor. Just the way you posted it made it hard to tell and I wanted to be sure before crafting my response.