Thin line between fanaticism and goofiness…

[LoneRanger]

How impertinent! C. Goldstein is *much* scarier than a Jesuit!

[olger]

Greg, you could not be more mistaken.

rejoice always,

G

[Gregory Matthews]

You say that I could not be more mistaken:

Beverly Beem: Walla University

Roy Branson: School of Religion, Loma Linda University

Fritz Guy: La Sierra University

David Larson: Religion, Loma Linda University

Gary Land: History, Andrews University.

Richard Rice: Theology Loma Linda University

Chuck Scriven, President, Kettering College of Medical Arts

Norman Young: Australia

Which ones of the above are ex-SDA?

NOTE: I have listed 8 of the 12 members of the Spectrum Editorial Board. I do not imply that the other four are Ex-SDA. I have simply left them out due to the fact that I suspect they might not be well known to many people reading here.

O.K. Are the authors of articles in SPECTRUm Ex-sDA?

Let us look at the current issue, Vol. 41, Issue 1, Winter 2013.Sigve Tonstad, "I Won't Ask to Speak With God." NOTE: That title came from the speak of Elihu in the book of Job. Sigve is a professor of religion at Loma Linda. Is s he an Ex-SDA? I do not think so.

Ivan Blazen, "Suffering: Personal Experience and Reflections." Ivan is on the Religion faculty of Loma Linda. Not an Ex-SDA.

Ann Collier-Freed, "Participating in God's redemptive Response to Our Suffering World." Ann is a former professor at Pacific Union College and a former chaplain. Presently she is a member of the Wasatch Hills SDA Church. Not an Ex-SDA.

Rubin Sanchez, "The Many Faces of Religion." He is a university chaplain to SDA Students. Ex-SDA? I Do not think so.

Petr Cincala, "Mission to a Secular City. He is the incoming Director for the Institute of Church Ministry at Andrews University. Ex-SDA? Hardly.

Don Williams, "A New Mission School Model: How Adventist Colleges and Universities Can Thrive and Fulfill Their Mission in the Twenty-First Century." Don is Senior Vice President for Academic Administration at Adventist University of Health Sciences. Ex-SDA? No!

Olger, how many years has it been since you read an article in SPECTRUM?

NOTE: I have not listed all of the articles as a number were written by people recognized to be active Adventists.

O.K. Olger, you may have referenced my comment about Cliff Goldstein. Well, about Cliff, I was speaking lightly, as was Bravus.

[olger]

I read spectrum every week, Greg.

The individuals that most often post on their blog are A) Rabidly liberal, and or Disgruntled ex-Adventists with a major gripe against the Biblical beliefs of the church.

Their lone virtue is sentimentalized irrational bitterness, masquerading as Christianity.

blessings,

g

[Gregory Matthews]

O.K. You were referring to the Blog.

I was referring to the magazine.

There is a big difference.

The Internet attracts . . . Well, just look at who posts here.

GM

[Stan]

The Internet attracts . . . Well, just look at who posts here.

A lot of insight in that..

[M. T. Cross]

The Internet attracts . . . Well, just look at who posts here.

GM

I would be very interested in you actually clarifying that.

See Stan sees insight, others might see venom, I see a lot of possibilities either way and some in the middle. Vague statements like that are how things get blown out of proportion.

[Woody]

There ARE NO constraints on the internet. The magazine has constraints as to who writes. But those that want to respond come from all walks of life.

[Gregory Matthews]

O.K. Olger, You have given me a subjet for thoughtful discussion and I believe that you and I can have that.

First, let me give some background information: I subscribe to both ADVENTIST TODAY and SPECTRUM. I regularly read, and occasionally post on the AT Blog. I seldom read the SPECTRU blog. So, I Do not have a lot of knowledge of the SPECTRUM blog.

The so-called Adventist Internet blogs, of which Maritime and Club Adventist are included. attract all kinds of people. In the past I characterized Club Adventist as 1/3 mainline Adventist, 1/3 of people who were on the edge of Adventism and 1/3 of people who were anti-Adventist and wanting to challenge. Some of the people attracted to these forums were off-beat to be polite.

I try not to judge any of these forums by people who populate them who are a bit crazy, to put it into informal language.

I personally know a number of people who post on the AT Blog. I have gone to school with them. I have been a college room-mate to them. I have sat in theology (and science) classes with them. In some cases, I am personally aquainted with their life story and the personal struggles that they have had.

I see the AT (I give this as an example as I know it better than the Spectrum forum.) blog as having the purpose of being a meeting place where Ex-Adventists and those on the outs with the denomination, can dialogue with main-line Adventists.

Sometimes that dialogue gest rough. Sometimes it is blunt. You know what? We have ex-members who have been deeply wounded by the SDA Church--its members and its leaders. But, I think that it is spiritually healthy for such forums to exist where dialogue and interchange of ideas can take place. I strongly support such.

Olger be careful of dismissing people whom you do not personally know with perjorative language.

[Gregory Matthews]

Empty Cross: Simply put, the Internet attracts some crazies. Club Adventist has attracted some of those in the past.

I do not consider you to be a crazy. I do not think that you and I will ever agree on some issues. But, you raise valid questions that deserve answers. I welcome your participation in this forum.

I recently returned to this forum after an absence of several years. But, my participation in this forum pre-dates my absence for a number of years. Stan and I know each other fairly well.

[M. T. Cross]

Oh I didn't think you were saying I was crazy. In recent weeks however, between here and a pagan forum I go too, I have been reminded how vague statements tend to be the most loaded and most easily misunderstood. So thats why I wanted some clarity.

[CoAspen]

........be careful of dismissing people whom you do not personally know with pejorative language.

Hmmmm......excellent advice for all us. Thanks for the reminder!!

[olger]

Quote:

Sometimes that dialogue gest rough. Sometimes it is blunt. You know what? We have ex-members who have been deeply wounded by the SDA Church--its members and its leaders.

Each of us will experience many wrongs in life. We cannot go through life changing the things that people do or say to us. The only thing we can do is to have a proper attitude towards those who have hurt us. Otherwise, bitterness will destroy our life.

How many angry people does it take to get anger flowing through a church body? Or an internet site?

Hebrews 12:15 tells us the answer.

I agree with Bob's accurate characterization of the Spectrum site. You don't. That's your privilege.

rejoice always,

G

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

I agree with Bob's accurate characterization of the Spectrum site. You don't. That's your privilege.

My comments about Spectrum have been directed at the magazine, not the blog.

[debbym]

Quote:

Sometimes that dialogue gest rough. Sometimes it is blunt. You know what? We have ex-members who have been deeply wounded by the SDA Church--its members and its leaders. But, I think that it is spiritually healthy for such forums to exist where dialogue and interchange of ideas can take place. I strongly support such.

i have experienced members who have been deeply hurt, and i have experienced members being outrageously hurtful, church leaders, on payroll additionally.

what i found is each is profoundly human.

when things are going well, and life is making sense, and we are rested, and comfortable... we can all be pretty nice.

challenge someone, put them beyond their resources to meet those challenges, deplete them of their reserves, additionally stress them, then make more demands on them... and hey people wear pretty thin, no matter how high their position, fears can break that thin veneer, and any of us can find our faith stretched, and our natural fallen nature shine through, Christ profoundly misrepresented, and souls deeply injured.

i find fear is most often at the base of breaking down the communion with Christ.

fanatics are general fear driven. but the people who react to them with greater fear of them are in no better position.

the remedy is love, perfect love casts out all fear. Not some sentimental sappy sweet love, but a commitment, and a humility, having really fallen on the rock and broken so Christs ways shine through the crevices of our brokenness.

and then i see also a love to ride the wave of excitement and attention... feeding on the latest drivel of someones supposed failure or embarrassment.. and invented things just to get a rise. handing off propaganda as if it were gospel. media mongering. Looking to be the one who starts viral news going.

there are a lot of reasons a lack of love and fulfillment in life will lead someone to feed themselves on the attention of others. this is way too common.

God help us to live soberly, watchful of our communion with heaven, feeling the needs of those around us, keeping our joy.

[Gregory Matthews]

I have a sermon that I sometimes preach about a woman who was driven out the the SDA Church more than once. As a result she went deep into the world of sin. But, God was not through with her and she began her final journey back to God and the SDA Church while sitting on a bar stool on a Friday night. But the local SDA congregation was not ready for someone with her imperfections. She died outside of the SDA Church, but within the family of God. At the time of her death her firm belief was that the next face she would see would be that of Christ.

My sermon title is: Welcome Home Maybe?

She was a regular contributer to this forum and is well known to many of the older members. It was in this forum that she experienced both love and acceptence and rejection.

[Gail]

I remember her.

These ones are valuable to me, as I consider their viewpoints. There is just something about the knowledge one gains by being on the outside that the cloistered ones don't have access to, that may improve all of our walks with God.

[Gregory Matthews]

While the woman in question did suffer some rejection here in Club Adventist, all in all Club Adventist played a major part in her journey back to the Lord. I believe that we who knew her will spend eternity with her and our Lord.

[Naomi]

Yes, I remember her ... thank you for reminding us of her struggles and acceptance

[phkrause]

While the woman in question did suffer some rejection here in Club Adventist, all in all Club Adventist played a major part in her journey back to the Lord. I believe that we who knew her will spend eternity with her and our Lord.

Even though I'm pretty sure I have no idea as to who she is, all I can say Praise the Lord, to C/A, we're not as bad as some would like others to believe.

[Gregory Matthews]

The person of whom I am talking died in April of 2002. Only older members who were around CA prior to that date would know her.

[phkrause]

The person of whom I am talking died in April of 2002. Only older members who were around CA prior to that date would know her.

Thanks for the info Greg. I've been a member since '00. So I probably do know her, but I have no idea who it is.

[BobRyan]

Quote:

The ex-SDAs at Spectrum sure love to vilify Goldstein - but I don't find many active SDAs doing that probably because they happen to agree with the doctrines of the church that they attend.

1) There are people who agree with the beliefs that Goldstein holds, but disagree with his "in your face" method of relating to people. Regardless of what you might think of that, it is a valid question that can be raised.

2) Ex-SDAs at Spectrum: My immediate impression is that you are quite ignorant of Spectrum and the people who support it. My evaulation of it is that the majority of those who manage it are active SDAs

It is arguable that those who manage the site are "Active" - I will grant you that much.

I was speaking more of the active posters there (not just the managers) that enjoy slamming one SDA leader after another starting with the President of the denomination and then including others such as Goldstein in their diatribes.

Those who wish to go there and join them - are free to do so. I was just noting their practice.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Thanks for the info Greg. I've been a member since '00. So I probably do know her, but I have no idea who it is.

She wrote under the penname of Del Star.

[phkrause]

ok, now I know. Thanks