Dealing respectfully with those who HAVE found God...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

is not apparently tolerated on this forum...

One may heap criticism, mockery, and disdain on God at C/A, but, apparently, that's okay - and even encouraged.

But when one tries to stand up and defend God's name, it is taken as an affont to the agnostics/atheists who choose to come to C/A....and those folks are taken to task for not being *kind* to those who are spitting on God.

Sorry, but I think that's disgusting.

Not that anyone gives a c**p what I think...

[Bravus]

I don't think that this is an even-handed characterisation of the situation.

I do care what you think. I care enough that I will try to help you think more clearly.

That specific thread was about how to deal with those who do not know God.

Points about the outright hostility directed, by Christians, toward those who do not know God, were made in that context: a specific thread.

If Christians want to be outright hostile to those who do not know God, they will: and they do, all over this forum, all the time.

But that particular thread had a specific purpose.

Why not take Rich (cardw) and his posts as an instructive example: those who do not know God will hold these beliefs.

How will believers deal with that? Well, we saw.

[Bravus]

Here's something I posted on my blog recently:

Respect for people, absolutely. Respect for beliefs, on the other hand, means *not* holding them inviolate and untouchable, but taking them seriously enough to apply careful critical thinking to them. Certainly, to our own beliefs first, but to the beliefs of others too, especially when those beliefs have real and tangible effects on the lives of people who don’t hold them.

[bonnie]

is not apparently tolerated on this forum...

One may heap criticism, mockery, and disdain on God at C/A, but, apparently, that's okay - and even encouraged.

But when one tries to stand up and defend God's name, it is taken as an affont to the agnostics/atheists who choose to come to C/A....and those folks are taken to task for not being *kind* to those who are spitting on God.

Sorry, but I think that's disgusting.

Not that anyone gives a c**p what I think...

Thank You.Many think like you and do care what you think.

[M. T. Cross]

I would see it more as us working through some of the psychological damage done to us as former members of this denomination and followers of this God. Pointing out the things that made us turn away from this belief system, particularly in a thread that is addressing that sort of subject.

I know I certainly have learned a lot from that thread, learning something from this one as well. Learning that without a doubt the day I walked away from this way of believing was the day I obviously had the greatest moment of clarity in my life.

Thanks for that, thanks for your honesty here Rudy, Bonnie and who ever else may post in agreement.

[phkrause]

is not apparently tolerated on this forum...

One may heap criticism, mockery, and disdain on God at C/A, but, apparently, that's okay - and even encouraged.

But when one tries to stand up and defend God's name, it is taken as an affont to the agnostics/atheists who choose to come to C/A....and those folks are taken to task for not being *kind* to those who are spitting on God.

Sorry, but I think that's disgusting.

Not that anyone gives a c**p what I think...

I do agree Pam. Are you talking about the moderators or about individual posters? This would clear up what I'm guessing your talking about.

[Woody]

Thank You Bravus. Many think like you and do care what you think.

[CoAspen]

I would follow up to what Bravus said and add the sometimes christians have difficulty with being challenged on their beliefs or why they have them. I think that it sometimes sounds like they are trashing christianity when they are actually pointing out what people say about God in the Bible is not always the same as the words written there. The other issue is when pushed some christians take offense and then 'trash talk' right back. It is then pointed out, by the unbeliever, they are not acting like the God they say is all love. There are differences in how God is portrayed it the OT and the NT. Just posting texts, out of context, that word again, does not persuade the unbeliever. Our actions/words are more potent. If we have difficulty with non christians challenging us, I think we have equal difficulty when christians of other faiths challenge us also.

Please Rudy, Do not take this as a dismissal of your concerns! It is just a general observation. Your thought and ideas are always appreciated!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The thread to which I'm referring has absolutely nothing to do with how to treat people anymore. It has deteriorated from "how to deal with those who haven't *found* God" to blatant mockery of God by some..

I find that very offensive. But it is apparently okay to offend *me*...

I don't see anyone mocking EmptyCross's god, nor the "science" of Bravus or Igakusei, nor the belief one's own.....aw, skip it.

Please don't patronize me by trying to "help me think more clearly." My perception is quite good, thank you.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

By the way, I know all about how to twist things and take scripture out of context to mock God. I could do it with the best of 'em. But I NEVER went on a Christian forum and indulged myself at the expense of the beliefs of my Christian friends. Never. It is SO disrespectful. And as a Christian now, I do not disparage the gods of my pagan friends. Their beliefs are just as important to them, as mine are to me.

I give respect. But I think it should be returned in kind. But it certainly isn't reciprocal on C/A.

[bonnie]

I would see it more as us working through some of the psychological damage done to us as former members of this denomination and followers of this God. Pointing out the things that made us turn away from this belief system, particularly in a thread that is addressing that sort of subject.

I know I certainly have learned a lot from that thread, learning something from this one as well. Learning that without a doubt the day I walked away from this way of believing was the day I obviously had the greatest moment of clarity in my life.

Thanks for that, thanks for your honesty here Rudy, Bonnie and who ever else may post in agreement.

I think it is a given that you and I disagree on "God"

I don't think that is the problem that was being referred to but can only speak for myself. While this is not something I have seen you do,complete disrespect for the beliefs of some is a fact of life. When some do it,it is called critical thinking, others that have a not so liberal view are hostile and called legalists.

Pick almost any topic here you wish. Gay marriage is always a hot topic.If you do not believe gay marriage should be legalized you are hate filled and homophobic.Same holds true throughout.

A new topic was just started. Most of us accept that fact that while we do not drink alcohol,others do.No problem,yet would you show the same disrespect on a Muslim online community in jest if that is what this is supposed to be?While I have no idea what the article is about as I cannot access it,it doesn't appear to be against.Nor does it appear to be a serious question relating to alcohol use.

Respect is a two way street.

A couple of days ago in the shout box out of the blue,"How can anyone be a legalist in this day and age"?

No different than if I made the same snide remark in the shoutbox,"How can you be a pagan in this day and age"?

It is not very helpful to be so close minded,nothing can be said that disagrees with you,neither is it helpful to be so open minded that if you bend over you are in danger of your brains falling out.

Because some,myself included have a different view where is the respect in "Legalist and being mocked or condemned for that?

[M. T. Cross]

I don't see anyone mocking EmptyCross's god, nor the "science" of Bravus or Igakusei, nor the belief one's own.....aw, skip it.

Really? cause I certainly have. Not all the time, not on every subject, but it sure has happened. My personal fave was when my deities got referred to as something Marvel comics made up.

But you know, maybe you have a point. Maybe none of us should be here. Maybe we should not share our thoughts, our insights and our doubts. Maybe if we are here we should be dishonest and not ever push the envelope. I have never thought that questioning the actions and/or words of the Christian God was bashing him. Nor would I have seen pointing out a perception of how men wrote about him in the Bible was bashing him either. As I mentioned last night in the Shoutbox, it seems to me that there seems to be at least two different Gods represented here by the Christians, and to a further extent in the Bible. One I can respect and one I have to wonder how anyone could respect. But again, I guess stating that is bashing him. My bad.

[bonnie]

Really? cause I certainly have. Not all the time, not on every subject, but it sure has happened. My personal fave was when my deities got referred to as something Marvel comics made up.

But you know, maybe you have a point. Maybe none of us should be here. Maybe we should not share our thoughts, our insights and our doubts. Maybe if we are here we should be dishonest and not ever push the envelope. I have never thought that questioning the actions and/or words of the Christian God was bashing him. Nor would I have seen pointing out a perception of how men wrote about him in the Bible was bashing him either. As I mentioned last night in the Shoutbox, it seems to me that there seems to be at least two different Gods represented here by the Christians, and to a further extent in the Bible. One I can respect and one I have to wonder how anyone could respect. But again, I guess stating that is bashing him. My bad.

I don't think what is being referred to is Marvel comics.

Respect and consideration? That isn't how it looks in my world

It might be things like ....

Other than claims, I see you offering no evidence at all that this god exists. And if he did exist he would be a sick and crazy god.....

Why would any intelligent being want to worship that sicko?

Again,turn that around and tell me who of those bashing God as sick and crazy would go to a Muslim online community and do that concerning Islam? I think most of you would show more respect. You have been shown more respect in that I don't think comments like that have been made to you.

Some here take it when scripture is quoted as bashing someone.

Any text can be twisted and taken out of context but in general I don't think the members here have gone at you in that way.

[M. T. Cross]

Bonnie, I get where you are coming from. I agree that the person that posted that sometimes lacks tact when they post their thoughts. He is blunt and straight to the point without a lot of sugar coating. Sometimes its hard to tell that he is simply posting from his personal perspective, of where he has arrived at. I can very much see how some people could get offended by that. Maybe because I understand the general area he is coming from I can see his point and can see through the lack of tact. But like I said I can see that people could take it personally too.

But it has been said here that no-one has mocked or bashed my beliefs, Bravus and Igs scientific approach or Cards atheism.

That is simply not true.

We have all been told countless times that if we don't shape up we will all go for a swim in that burning lake.

We have had our beliefs referred to as the work of the Devil. Now even if one does not believe in the devil its still insulting because its clear what is meant.

The first posts of Bravus' that I ever read was a thread where he first stated he no longer considered himself an SDA. That thread went on for close to 50 pages (if I remember right - it was really long regardless) of him getting torn apart right and left. I might add he handled himself with grace and dignity throughout.

And yes, my deities have been referred to as demons and Marvel Comic creations. I have been called a liar, I have been told that my experiences in the church are all in my head. I have had people tell me that they would not even speak to me because I am not a Christian. When I once actually opened up beyond any vague reference to my beliefs I was mocked by some quite openly. Should have I expected that? I guess so, I guess it was naive not to. The only thing I actually took personally was when I was called a liar because I did not hang onto the letter that told me why I was getting kicked out of the church over 20 years ago. That I did take very personally because it was a personal attack. Going after my religion...... its mostly due to ignorance about it so I don't take that personally. But thats me.

Thing is this. I have come to the conclusion that no matter what a person says on a forum, there is going to be someone that is offended by it. Especially if you are honest.

That said there are people here that are incredibly kind and loving. People that make all feel welcome no matter what their beliefs.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

I don't see anyone mocking EmptyCross's god, nor the "science" of Bravus or Igakusei, nor the belief one's own.....aw, skip it.

Really? cause I certainly have. Not all the time, not on every subject, but it sure has happened. My personal fave was when my deities got referred to as something Marvel comics made up.

But you know, maybe you have a point. Maybe none of us should be here. Maybe we should not share our thoughts, our insights and our doubts. Maybe if we are here we should be dishonest and not ever push the envelope. I have never thought that questioning the actions and/or words of the Christian God was bashing him. Nor would I have seen pointing out a perception of how men wrote about him in the Bible was bashing him either. As I mentioned last night in the Shoutbox, it seems to me that there seems to be at least two different Gods represented here by the Christians, and to a further extent in the Bible. One I can respect and one I have to wonder how anyone could respect. But again, I guess stating that is bashing him. My bad.

I was referring to that other specific thread. No one bashed you. I thought that was self-evident. Apparently it needs to be spelled out. My bad.

Come to think of it, I've seen more acceptance in this forum of pagan ideas and beliefs than in most other Christian forums I've participated in. Indeed, one would never know that gods and goddesses were not a part and parcel of this forum.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

And with that, I shall bow out of this thread, as I am CERTAIN I will be the target of more disdain, as evidenced thus far.

My thanks to those who were gracious enough to read. And understand.

[M. T. Cross]

No, then it was my bad, I thought you were referring to the whole board not just that one thread.

That said, there have been things in that thread that I thought were incredibly rude and arrogant directed my way. But since they came from people I have come to expect that from, I just found it par for the daily course here. That thread or any other thread, its all the same to me.

But I stand by what I said. Maybe the non Adventists just should not be here. But as long as that is allowed I suspect there will be some. As long as there are some things will be said that people will take to be offensive whether that is how they are meant or not.

Of course 10 minutes down in Theological can prove no-one needs us around for bashing and name calling.

[M. T. Cross]

Come to think of it, I've seen more acceptance in this forum of pagan ideas and beliefs than in most other Christian forums I've participated in. Indeed, one would never know that gods and goddesses were not a part and parcel of this forum.

I can't compare to any other Christian forums, cause I have only ever come to this one.

However I think thats the way it should be. I know on the pagan forum I post at a person can get banned for Christian bashing.

Its a fine line. There is being honest about how you view things, there is relating your experience, and then there is bashing. I suspect we all have a different view on where that line is drawn.

[Bravus]

[deleted]

[fccool]

Picture is worth a thousand words:

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

that picture belongs on the other thread...not on this one...please stop spamming this thread..

[Woody]

Picture is worth a thousand words:

Funny - it is didn't have such an element to truth to it. Thanks for posting. WE should all learn from this.

[Woody]

Quote:

And with that, I shall bow out of this thread

Sorry to see you go Rudywoofs. You will be missed. Always appreciate hearing from you and learning of your perspectives.

[bonnie]

Sorry to see you go Rudywoofs. You will be missed. Always appreciate hearing from you and learning of your perspectives.

Many times there seems to be a tone of mockery to your posts.

I am curious how many "pagans" and non-SDA" that post so much venom concerning God do so on other religious denomination sites?

I have seen many get upset if they feel that the Muslim faith is being treated in a negative tone here.Would the "pagans and non-believers" do that on a Muslim online community? If not why not?

Would you do so on other religious sites ? If you do what is the response when you post same as you do here. Many that I have visited you would be warned then banned. Questions or simple statements as to what you believe or don't doesn't seem to be a problem

[Woody]

I prefer to have a site where people are not just singing to the choir. All should be welcomed.