What day was Jesus crucified?

[benherndon]

Gregory, we are talking around each other's points, it seems to me. Those who actually heard an saw Jesus are not the ones the books were written for PRIMARILY! They were written for those who did not hear or see him---by that I meant "us". Obviuosly even the Gospel writers had some varying opinions on what and how things happened and what was said.

Yeah, when I was teaching at LLUMC we used 'shaman based medicine'. Shame on us! In my earliest days they had to repair, powder and resterilize our gloves and use them again! Needles were re-sharpened on whet stones. We often did our own lab work and took our own x-rays. Before penicillin we used specific horse serum for pneumonia patients. We kept our post op patients in the hospital for a week often times. Yes, it sure does look like 'shaman based medicine'. We even made house calls. I did 13 of them on one rainy weekend in Ukiah. Yet, the modern day wonders are still killing people at the rate of 93,000 a year!! Ask the Chief you're observing if

this is 'evidence based medicine'!! I wonder what they'll call today's 'evidence based medicine' 50 yrs from now?

By the way, I approve of practicing literally better and better and better medicine. But, we did the best we could with what we had. That is all they are doing today, too!! God bless them!!!

In re: "The day.....". Let's leave it be. In ancient WW II there was an order the sargent would sometimes bark-out, "As You Were!!"

<grin>

Ben

[LifeHiscost]

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Gregory Matthews said:

Such can be intellectual and academic folly.

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Once I heard a story of a professor, delivering a lecture to a group of students about the search for some scientific hypothesis. At the end of his discourse a student raised his hand to ask a question, and when recognized he put forward this question, "How did you know what you were looking for."

After somewhat of a pregnant pause, the professor replied, somewhat frostily, "A true research scientist does not determine what is true until he comes upon incontrovertible

evidence to the fact."

In order for this story to reveal any logic in regard to spiritual truth, it would seem important to establish what could be considered "incontrovertible evidence". If we cannot find that "incontrovertible evidence" from the Word alone, then for the most part all the world is doomed to destruction.

[:"red"] "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine...." [/] John 7:17 KJV

[:"red"] "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth...." [/]

John 16:13 KJV

[LifeHiscost]

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Barbara said:

I don't see a reason to be concerened about which day Jesus was crucified.

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It probably doesn't mean that much to anyone who doesn't feel a designated day is important to our Lord. But when the final events of this earth's history are played out, there will be tremendous pressure to accept man's rule of law as established by tradition, over the Word of God. The person who chooses to keep the seventh day Sabbath will be pitted against the highest civil, intellectual and ecclesiastical authorities, who will try to do everything in their power to persuade the individual disciple, as well as the corporate body of Christ, that their authoritative interpretation of the Scriptures supercedes any individual conscience on how best they should worship the King of glory.

The persuasive powers will be up to and including the threat of death. Who do you think will receive supernatural power to insure the Truth be known?

[:"red"] "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." [/] Acts 5:29 KJV

[Barbara]

Even though I don't see a reason to be concerened about the day Christ died I know it was on a Friday and that they had to rush to get Him into the grave before the Sabbath was upon them. And that He rest in the grave over Sabbath. ANd this thing about 3 days in the grave thing. Lets think about it He was seperated from His Father for 3 days. His seperation from God started on Thursday went though Friday and Sabbath. And Sunday He was raised from the dead and He was reconected with His Father. That will give you your 3 days and 3 nights.

[Ray BC]

When revelation says "all the world wondered after the beast" the word "world" is translated from the Greek word "ge." It was not the world but the people of the world that were wondering. When Jesus said "3d and 3n in the heart of the earth" think of it as in the heart of man, as in willingly subject to the will of man during that time.

Jesus always counted the time starting from His betrayal which was initiated on Tuesday evening when Judas went to the priests following the feast at Simon's house. Count 3d and 3n from there. This is an incredibly important and much misunderstood portion of scripture.

I am a newbie at club adventist but I have spent many hours on this topic. You can see the preliminary results at www.abundanthealth.info/newlightstudies It is about 80 pages so I didn't think I could post it here. There are some real surprises in there, I have shared it with a number of people and it seems to be scripturally solid. One thing it does do - it totally destroys the usual claim for Sunday sacredness.

Your thoughts are welcome.

[jasd]

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Lest we prove ourselves too hasty where deliberation may be warranted… let’s look at, per /bevin, Matthew 28:1 -- for the verse may yet yield much that has hitherto been overlooked. That said,

KJV Mt 28:1 In the end {3796} of the sabbath, as it began to dawn {2020}toward the first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

END:

Strong’s #3796 opse, from the same as 3694 (through the idea of backwardness); (adv.) late in the day; by extension, after the close of the day:--(at) even, in the end.

Is there not a thing grammatically implicit in the ‘idea of backwardness’[:"red"]*[/]? that is congruent with late[:"red"]*[/] in the day…?

[:"red"]*[/]It may be of interest to see how Thayer’s Gr-Eng Lexicon approaches it…

opse foll. by a gen. seems always to be partitive, denoting late in the period specified by the gen. (and consequently still belonging to it [note: ‘still belonging to it’, and not after it])[ed.]

DAWN:

Strong’s #2020 epiphosko, a form of 2017; to begin to grow light:--begin to dawn, x draw on.

#2017 epiphauo, a form of 2014; to illuminate (fig.):--give light.

#2014 epiphaino, from 1909 and 5316; to shine upon, i.e. become (lit.) visible or (fig.) known:--appear, give light.

In that it is supposed that the Pasch of Nissan 14th is the time of the full moon -- it has been proposed that the Greek use of epiphosko is equally, legitimately used to indicate the rising of the then full moon ‘drawing on’, ‘giving light’, “illuminating”, ‘shining upon’, ‘becoming visible’, or ‘appearing’ -- as it might the sun. WDYT?

YLT Mt 28:1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

One assumes estimation of the Young's Literal Translation; therefor,

note that Young, as does the KJV, translates the Greek to mean that the phrase “at the dawn” (as is aptly put elsewhere), because of the conditional 'toward' is part of the preceding “eve of the sabbaths” -- rather than belonging chronologically to the cockcrow of morning, come Sunday, the first of the Sabbaths.

“Now late on the sabbath as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week (…). This careful chronological statement according to Jewish days clearly means that before the sabbath was over, that is before six P.M., this visit by the women was made "to see the sepulchre" (…). They had seen the place of burial on Friday afternoon (Mark 15:47; Matthew 27:61; Luke 23:55). They had rested on the sabbath after preparing spices and ointments for the body of Jesus (Luke 23:56), a sabbath of unutterable sorrow and woe. They will buy other spices after sundown when the new day has dawned and the sabbath is over (Mark 16:1). Both Matthew here and Luke (Luke 23:54) use dawn (…) for the dawning of the twenty-four hour-day at sunset, not of the dawning of the twelve-hour day at sunrise. The Aramaic used the verb for dawn in both senses. The so-called Gospel of Peter has … in the same sense as Matthew and Luke as does a late papyrus. Apparently the Jewish sense of "dawn" is here expressed by this Greek verb. Allen thinks that Matthew misunderstands Mark at this point, but clearly Mark is speaking of sunrise and Matthew of sunset. Why allow only one visit for the anxious women?” --ATRobertson [ed:mine:: the ellipses (paraphrastic and otherwise) indicate an omission of Greek script]

Thayer’s, ATRobertson, and others provide a ‘reading’ of the Greek that supports a thesis that Christ arose from the tomb much before the ‘three stars’ of Jewish custom indicated an end to the Seventh-day Shabbat. That being so,

the “three days-three nights” controversy, though having an apparent legitimacy by usage, would seem bereft of a similitudine-our-idiomatic-weekend (for example); as well, a Friday crucifixion would seem unsupportable.

[LifeHiscost]

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Barbara said:

Even though I don't see a reason to be concerened about the day Christ died I know it was on a Friday and that they had to rush to get Him into the grave before the Sabbath was upon them. And that He rest in the grave over Sabbath. ANd this thing about 3 days in the grave thing. Lets think about it He was seperated from His Father for 3 days. His seperation from God started on Thursday went though Friday and Sabbath. And Sunday He was raised from the dead and He was reconected with His Father. That will give you your 3 days and 3 nights.

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Who do you think will receive supernatural power to insure the Truth be known?

Sounds to me as if yours will be a house which I will be welcome at when things prove to be too hot for self-seekers.

I do know that just the knowledge of these things, is not sufficient for salvation, of which I'm sure you're aware also.

[:"red"] " And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." [/] 1 Cor 13:2 NKJV

Keep looking up!

[Robert]

Christ clearly died on Friday just before the Sabbath began. And on the 7th-day God [not Christ] rested from His work of redemption "in Christ Jesus."

In Christ's eyes He wasn't resting [sleeping] until Sunday morning. No...when Christ as man died the hope of the resurrection forsook Him. In Christ's mind it was goodbye to life forever. That's why the Bible states He tasted death [i.e., the 2nd death] for all mankind.

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Some would say that the above makes it impossible for a person to remain rich and enter heaven. I will suggest that such is a "wooden" application of what it means to be literal.

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No...being rich is not the issue. Before I touch on this let me quote EGW because, I believe, she does have some light on this subject:

• As the young man turned away, Jesus said to His disciples, "How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God."

  These words astonished the disciples. [:"red"]They had been taught to look upon the rich as the favorites of heaven[/]; worldly power and riches they themselves hoped to receive in the Messiah's kingdom; if the rich were to fail of entering the kingdom, what hope could there be for the rest of men? [COL 393]

Okay...clearly "they had been taught" that the rich are the favorites of heaven. Where did they [the Jews] get this idea?

Before I answer this question let's go to the Bible. Let's read Mark 10:23-26

• 23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24 And the disciples were amazed at his words.

  But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them [:"red"]that trust in riches[:"black"] to enter into the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man [who trusts in his riches] to enter into the kingdom of God. 26 And they were astonished exceedingly, saying unto him, Then who can be saved? [1901 American Standard Version]

What does salvation [being saved] have to do with "trusting" in one’s wealth…being the favorites of heaven?

Turn to the book of the law, Deuteronomy 27:26:

• ‘Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’

  28:1 “NOW it shall be, if you will diligently obey the LORD your God, being careful to do all His commandments which I command you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. 2 “And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you will obey the LORD your God….

  Verse 11: And the LORD will make you abound in prosperity….

In the days of Christ a Jew was taught that if you obey God’s law [the Torah] then in return God would open up the sky and pour buckets of the green stuff into your lap. In other words the proof of being “a commandment-keeper” was your wealth. Even today “the world” tends to look at a rich man as a good man blessed of God. Hence, to the Jews a rich man was a good man.

So when Christ said, “It is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man [who trusts in his riches] to enter into the kingdom of God”, the disciples fully understood His position. That’s why they were amazed! In their eyes if a rich man, blessed of God for His obedience, couldn’t make it into heaven then who could be saved?

So if any of you good commandment-keeping Adventists are looking to your wealth as proof of your goodness to enter into life, then Christ has bad news for you!

That’s the issue!

[jasd]

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Thayer’s, ATRobertson, and others provide a ‘reading’ of the Greek that supports a thesis that Christ arose from the tomb much before the ‘three stars’ of Jewish custom indicated an end to the Seventh-day Shabbat. That being so,

the “three days-three nights” controversy, though having an apparent legitimacy by usage, would seem bereft of a similitudine-our-idiomatic-weekend (for example); as well, a Friday crucifixion would seem unsupportable.

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So, that said,

what if one approached the matter from the other end, that is, --say, by frontloading it… mebbe, beginning with

Jn 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

and

Jn 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and [that] they might be taken away.

What’s with this “day of preparation”? What’s with this “high day”? Hmm, shur seems tah me that together –

a ‘Friday crucifixion’ cannot be supported by Writ. That would leave the

veracity of its assert dependant upon the developed doctrines of the Universal church.

[benherndon]

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Christ clearly died on Friday

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>>>>Robert, I don't think a well Biblically read and reasoned writer could legitimately say that so 'flat out'.

There is a problem as far as the 3 days and 3 nights that is not well explained in the English (nearly 20 translations) I have. Most readers do not take into consideration the 'preparation day' for the special ceremonial 'passover Sabbath' which has nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath at all.

This is not so very important, IMO, compared to the facts and implications of the Crucifixion and Resurrection along, also, with its fact...and implications. It is only an interesting question which is not well settled. Dr. Gent and others have attempted to explain His statement regarding the Sign of Jonah, "... three days and three nights." I'm not so sure that a few minutes, perhaps even an hour or so at the end of the day He was crucified would qualify for a 'whole day' in Jewish calculations. I suspect that is an 'apologetic'----but I haven't made a study of it.

Your faith, however, is to be highly commended, IMO!!

Ben

[Yong T Tay]

If Jesus was crucified on Wednesday and was buried just before sunset that day, then He must had risen just before sunset on Saturday and not on Sunday in order to fulfil the Sign of Jonah, "... three days and three nights."

[Gregory Matthews]

To all:

I will be the first to say that the issue of the days that Christ died, and was rose from the dead is not of critical importance. In addition, I will say that it is complex and not an easy answer.

To resolve this question one factor is the question as to the meaning of the word "Sabbath." I, as have many others, have taken the position that it means the weekly Sabbath. But, that position is not conclusively clear. Anyone who states that it is automatically, conclusively, clear probably does not understand the issue. This is why I have stated that it is important that one address the issue of the Jewish callendars for religious holy days. And the fact that there were two major callendars for computing religious holy days in existance at the time of Christ.

[Robert]

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Gregory Matthews said:

To all:

I will be the first to say that the issue of the days that Christ died, and was rose from the dead is not of critical importance.

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It's the only legitimate reason to acknowledge the Sabbath under the covenant of grace:

• Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a Sabbath rest [a keeping of the Sabbath] for the people of God. 10 For the one who has entered His rest [i.e., has accepted the gospel] has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

What day did God the Father "rest" from His finished work of redemption "in Christ Jesus"? It wasn't Friday...or Sunday! It was Saturday...better known as the 7th-day.

Luke 23:50 Now there was a man named Joseph, a member of the Council, a good and upright man, 51 who had not consented to their decision and action. He came from the Judean town of Arimathea and he was waiting for the kingdom of God. 52 Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus’ body. 53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid. [What day did this occur?] 54 It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.

[jasd]

Dispensing with dialogic complexities surrounding the immediate events of a Pasch…

let’s consider only these --

/ Christ was the Paschal sacrifice

/ He died on the cross at the approximate time the priests began killing the Paschal lambs (3:00 PM ‘til near dusk -- the 11th hour)

/ These slaughtered lambs were then taken to the individual and many homes (by Josephus’ numbers – approx two and a half million Jews gathered in Jerusalem at the Pasch) to be roasted (the entire lamb with head, legs, and purtenance thereof) -- a thing of some elapsed time

/ Given, that some of the Jews in Jerusalem resided further from the temple than others, it is not unreasonable to assume that it was way past sunset before they could gather around the meal to celebrate the Passing Over. (there was also yet the requirement that any of the sacrifice uneaten had to be burned before sunrise)

The above recounts only a portion of the activities that were secular by nature and exceeded the simple picking up of sticks upon the Sabbath. Therefor,

it beggars reason to believe that Christ, the Paschal Lamb, would have fulfilled ‘type’ on a Friday evening; thereby constraining the Jews to perform contrarily to the proscriptions of the Seventh-day Sabbath.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Dr. Ben, I'm a little late with this response but nevertheless here it is.

In order to understand when Jesus was crucified and resurrected we need to look at more than just one verse in Matthew 12:39 He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

If that is read with the following verses we can understand what Jesus meant

Matthew 21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Matt 17:22When they came together in Galilee, he said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. 23They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life." And the disciples were filled with grief.

18"We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"

62The next day, the one after Preparation Day, the chief priests and the Pharisees went to Pilate. 63"Sir," they said, "we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I will rise again.' 64So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first."

Jesus last week from the book of Mark shows us when this all took place

Sunday: Mark 11: 1-10

Monday: Mark 11 -12 -18 v12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. v19 When evening came, they went out of the city.

Tuesday: Mark 11: 20-26 20In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21Peter remembered and said to Jesus, "Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!"

Tuesday: 14:1 Now the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread were only two days away,

Thursday: 14:12 On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, (they ate that night, the 6th evening) Jesus' disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?" (Passover starts [what we call] Thursday night - which is evening 6 of 7 evening and morning cycle)

Thursday night: 14:17 when evening came, Jesus arrived with the Twelve 18While they were reclining at the table eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray me—one who is eating with me." (The Lord's supper)

Thursday night: 14:32-72 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, "Sit here while I pray." 33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled.

Friday morning: 15: 1Very early in the morning, the chief priests, with the elders, the teachers of the law and the whole Sanhedrin, reached a decision. They bound Jesus, led him away and handed him over to Pilate.

Friday crucifixion: 15: 24, 25 “It was the third hour when they crucified him.” 9AM - verse 34 ninth hour - 3 pm Friday (sunset would be around 6 or 7 pm in Jerusalem)

Friday-death: 15 42It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached, 43Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus' body. 44Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead.

Sunday resurrection: 16: 1,2 Vs 1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. 2Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb

Here's when they bought spices for Jesus' body.

I've been wanting to respond to this for a while but just never got to it. This was a good Sabbath afternoon study.

In Christ,

Norman

[jasd]

>>Sunday: Mark 11: 1-10<<

‘scuse, please expand for my edification the means by which you’ve ascertained that the events of Mark 11:1-10 took place on that particular Sunday? I’m finding those texts as coincident with a Sunday -- more or less unsubstantiating.

I’m asking, as your chronological depiction seems to hang upon that purport.

Thanks.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Jasd,

Unless I made a mistake, the chronology should be right. Work backwards from the resurrection and I think you'll come up with what I did.

Let me know and if you don't I'll try to explain it further.

Norman

[jasd]

Norman,

Yes, I concede that the concept of approaching a thing from a different direction can sometimes prove beneficial. That said, per a hypothesis regards the chronological events of the Passion Week --

one assumes a proven model to begin with; otherwise, one needs ask, is the Friday Crucifixion a proven model? If the answer is less than certain

it presupposes that I would not be justified running chronology backwards. So yes,

>>…I'll try to explain it further.<<

if you please -- I prevail upon you to explain…

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Jasd,

I just have a minute before I go to church.

First I would not start counting backwards from Friday but Sunday. That Jesus rose on Sunday is an established fact.

Also, if you are basing your understanding on the Jonah text (3 day and 3 nights) at the excl,usion of the other verse, then that would not be sound. The Jonah verse is the only one that talks about 3 day and 3 nights.

Put this text into the mix of what we're discussing and it will help shed light on this matter.

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

I have not added the parenthisis, it's in the orginal. This is clearly referring to Friday. We all know that the day of preparation is Friday and we all know that He rose on Sunday the 1st day of the week. Also a high day is known to mean the 7th day Sabbath and another feast day or week that take place together as opposed to a feast day that is on Sunday which would not be a high day likewise it could not be Friday. Therefore, the high day mentioned here is Sabbath

Taking that into consideration we have to conclude that Jesus was dead and in the tomb on Sabbath, having died on Friday.

Hope it helps my friend.

Have a blessed Sabbath.

Norman

[Stan]

This is such the 'make it or break it' decision maker for some of the World Wide Church of God Members that are looking for a new home. One of the biggest stumbling blocks.

To most Adventists, Wednesday, Thursday (as some believe), or Friday... not much of a difference.. To the WWCG it is a choice to either follow the Bible or Follow the Church of Rome.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Stan,

That's an interesting thought, I wonder what it is that has caused them to look at this in such a light? By the way, do you know what they beleive?

To me, I have come to the conclusion that Jesus died Friday and rose Sunday. No big deal, it's plain for me. I wouldn't leave the church if someone, in a position of leadership said something is different from my belief on this matter. The most important thing is that He died for me and rose for my justification and not just mine but for the whole world.

Norman

[Gregory Matthews]

The World Wide Chruch of God has split. It is now not what it once was. One segement has gone over to Sunday-keeping Protestantism. There are other blocks that have developed in what was once the WWCG. At the present time I think that many statements about their doctrinal beliefs and practices could be challenged.

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "Church of Rome"

This is the first time that I have heard such equated with this issue. Although if some can see Jesuist priest hiding under all of our beds, I guess they could equate such with Rome.

After all, don't we know that . . . .?

[jasd]

Norman,

I appreciate your expositing the matter and… I thought you might be interested in seeing how a ‘contrarian’, as myself, might perceive certain aspects of the matter. Your post raises

several things:

>>First I would not start counting backwards from Friday but Sunday. That Jesus rose on Sunday is an established fact.<<

Yes, a Friday crucifixion advocate supposes a Sunday resurrection; however, is there verse/text that unequivocally attest(s) a Sunday resurrection? It is my understanding that there was/is no witness -- either person or text to the resurrection.

>>Also, if you are basing your understanding on the Jonah text (3 day and 3 nights) at the excl,usion of the other verse, then that would not be sound. The Jonah verse is the only one that talks about 3 day and 3 nights.<<

Though it is true that the Jonah reference is the “only one…”, I purport that, as it was Christ speaking, it ought to be invested with a certain exactness when expositing a Christ-the-Pasch illustration. Additionally, I might note that one advancing a Sunday resurrection does so in implicit acknowledgement of Christ’s Jonah-reference, but why only implicitly; otherwise, a simple ‘Friday crucifixion and Saturday evening resurrection’ suffices.

Although I don’t appeal, necessarily, to the Jonah reference, I do question the ascription to it of inherent haphazardness by the casual “It’s idiomatic, weekend -- y’know.” That casualness would then attach to everything about Gd -- the discomfiting color ‘looseness’. (I don’t think it advisable -- to attempt to shoehorn the crucifixion vignette into a dogma more fitting to preconceptions, that is, a Christ-rested-on-the-Sabbath paradigm, than to the absolute verity of Christ’s words)

Whether one subscribes to the Jonah parameters as a literal sign of Christ’s or not --

lacking the substantiating text of a Sunday resurrection, one who purports a Friday crucifixion is left with only the partial Friday day, Friday night, Saturday day, and a, lacking the attesting text, possible ‘idiomatically constructed’ Saturday night. That ‘two days and possibly two nights’ scenario or a ‘two days and one night’ scenario simply will not do

--where exposition is desired rather than advancing denominational doctrine; else the veracity of Christ’s spoken word must be questioned in every instance. It is just too loose for doctrine.

>>John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation,<<

Jn 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover,

St John declares that particular preparation a preparation of the passover.

>>Put this text into the mix of what we're discussing and it will help shed light on this matter.<<

Putting only John 19:31 ‘into a mix’ while neglecting John 19:14 -- yields a dichotomy.

>>This is clearly referring to Friday.<<

Umm, not so clearly.

>>We all know that the day of preparation is Friday…<<

Normally, yes.

>>…and we all know that He rose on Sunday the 1st day of the week.<<

Text, please.

>>Also a high day is known to mean the 7th day Sabbath and another feast day or week that take place together…<< [ed.]

Construct, please.

>>…as opposed to a feast day that is on Sunday which would not be a high day likewise it could not be Friday. Therefore, the high day mentioned here is Sabbath…<< [ed.]

I confess, I’m of a ‘twixt; are you saying that a ‘high day’ can only be two sabbaths, that is, a ‘feast sabbath and a seventh-day Sabbath’ occurring together -- upon the same day?

That being so, that is, the Pasch and the seventh-day Sabbath occurring upon the same calendrical date, therefor, a ‘high day’ -- would it not seem to you that moreso, it would be prohibitive to engage in the more secular aspects required in keeping the Pasch? such as, the kindling or keeping of a fire, the roasting of the lamb or kid goat, and afterwards the serving of the meal, the preparedness or intending to embark upon a journey on the morrow -- a Sabbath, the burning of leftover meat before sunrise… well, you see, one would be readily confounded by the conflict of laboring upon the seventh-day Sabbath, which same, Gd had declared Himself to jealously safeguard.

You’re not suggesting that proscription against activities not in keeping with a seventh-day Sabbath was suspended on THAT Pasch/Sabbath? are you?

>>Taking that into consideration we have to conclude that Jesus was dead and in the tomb on Sabbath, having died on Friday.<<

“Dead and in the tomb on Sabbath” I agree with; however, “…having died on Friday” -- I wonder.

>>Hope it helps my friend.<<

It does; though, in fact, for me -- it raises more questions

>>Have a blessed Sabbath.<<

Thank-you.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Jasd

I must tell you that I do not accept anyone's teachings without studying it for myself. I once left the SDA church for 10 years and when I returned I studied all of the doctrines for myself. Initially my friend who was the pastor told me that I really didn't need to go the "In His Steps" Baptismal preparation lessons. I chose to because when I was first baptized I just agreed with everything, it just sounded so right. No so this time I went through every text and studied everything that SDA's believe and found it to be accurate in everyway. If I would have found an error in our beliefs I would have said so and would have not said yes to that specific belief.

I say this to tell you I am a searcher of truth and when it is revealed to me I hold fast and don't let it go. I know what and who I believe. Therefore please do not conclude that I accept this belief because I'm blind or gullible.

Having said that I bring your attention to the plain language and the truth.

John 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. 31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day, (for that Sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

From verse 13 to 34 is one day; the preparation day for both the Sabbath and the actual Passover, when the lamb was killed by the High Priest. Again a high Sabbath is a day when the 7th day Sabbath and another feast day or week coincide. A high day is never a Friday or a Sunday, only a Sabbath. Therefore you only have one day on which Christ can logically crucified on and that is Friday, the preparation day. He rested in the grave on the Sabbath, (there is more meaning to this than meets the eye) and was raised on the 3rd day. Day one of the 3, Friday, Day 2 Sabbath, Day 3 Sunday. (Which would start our Saturday )

Follow the events. Friday (daytime - 1st day) trial, crucifixion and death. Friday night (Sabbath eve) in the tomb. Saturday (Sabbath day) the 2nd day of the 3 - in the tomb. Saturday night. (Sunday, eve 1st eve of the week - 3rd day starts) Still in tomb, Sunday day (Day 3) Jesus rises at around sunrise to fulfill the 3 day prophecy.

In all the prophecies that Jesus made concerning His death and resurrection He stated that He would rise the 3rd day. Again we can not take what Jesus said about the Jonah reference and make it the guiding factor in determining what He meant. It has to obviously mean that it was figurative and that it was 3 parts of days. There are 19 times in the 4 gospels that it mentions that Jesus would rise the Third day or in three days. Only one of them talk about 3 days and 3 nights. You need at least 2 witnesses to make something true, here you only have one.

That's about all for this.

Take car and God bless,

Norman